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Running training and hill runs

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 PPP 25 Jul 2018

I have picked up a formal training plan for half marathon to keep myself both organised and have an idea how to train. My scientific mind needs some training plan - I have done 10.8 mi run and 5K in 20 minutes (on a treadmill) without prior training. Happy I got away without injuries those times.

The training plan is pretty much 4/5 runs a week with the mileage currently being ~25 mpw and I am trying to increase it in 10% increments (currently 3rd week in training plan). Workouts on Thursdays, long runs on Sundays and easy runs in between with some rest days.

My question is how and when I can start hill running without adding risks? Should I swap out a workout or a long run for a hill run? Does it even matter if all I want is to get fitter for hills and maybe participate in some races?

 mountainbagger 26 Jul 2018
In reply to PPP:

I'd just do some of my long run in the hills instead of road. The main injury risk (for me) is from running downhill, so try and stay light on feet and watch where you're going (easier said than done towards the end of a long run)!

Are your runs currently on road/pavement?

Post edited at 07:40
OP PPP 26 Jul 2018
In reply to mountainbagger:

Yeah, I think that makes sense - just need to slow down on the uphills a bit more, I take. Thanks! 

 

Most of my runs are on the pavement, but have done a few hill runs as well - more of when opportunity arises rather than on specific days. 

 mountainbagger 26 Jul 2018
In reply to PPP:

Yes take it easy uphill at first. If you want to do hill reps on "workout Thursday" too, maybe introduce a hill rep session every few weeks. Just need a hill, doesn't have to be off road. But... I don't know how new to running you are, hill reps can be quite hard on your calves, achilles etc. Maybe try it after you've been doing everything else for a while without niggles

Removed User 26 Jul 2018
In reply to PPP:

If you're training for a half marathon why do you want to train on hills?

OP PPP 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:

My aim for running is to get fit - I wouldn’t mind a marathon training plan, but made more sense to start with something achievable. I do not know how to train (if that wasn’t apparent), so I like having a plan and reading more about the training in general (any resources/books welcome) until I get comfortable adjusting or creating my own training plan.

 

I do quite a bit of hillwalking (ticked off almost 50 Munros this year), so going uphill is something I don’t mind getting better at. I can dream of running the West Highland Way in a day, but that won’t happen in 10 weeks for sure! 

 

Hill runs are more fun as well. 

Ferret 26 Jul 2018
In reply to PPP:

Just a thought for 'calibrating' your plan.... Once folks get into off road/hills they often start to work more in 'time on feet' so if your plan is saying Long run equals X miles, you might want to consider converting that to a time based on your estimated road speeds and then use that time as your target for time on feet in hills.

Just raising as there can be a big difference between' long run 12 miles (flat road)' and 'long run 12 miles (saw edge ridge, bog hoping and loose scree with heathery sections)' - you're less likely to over extend yourself in earlier states of training as you get used to the demands of off road/hill running if you work on a time basis... otherwise your 'effort level' may be well ahead of what your plan is imagining.

Removed User 26 Jul 2018
In reply to PPP:

Fair enough.

This bloke's training plans are good and if you think about them you can adapt them to hill running: https://www.halhigdon.com/training/half-marathon-training/

One thing to bear in mind is that running on the flat will improve your cardio vascular fitness just as well as running up hills and may be a less painful way of developing a base level of fitness.

He does 3 weekdays of training and one long day at the weekend (in the beginner level). I was lucky enough to work near a reasonable hill in Edinburgh and so one of the weekdays involved running up that and back during my lunch break, maybe more depending on what I was training for. Long days, I substituted a hill run for a long run. As has been said when hill running the amount of ascent you do is as important as the distance, maybe more so. You'd need to find your level first then you can progress by moving from say 5000 ft of ascent to 5500 ft to 6000 ft and so on...

 ClimberEd 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:

Because it builds strength and is great training?!

(a bit of a silly question really

Removed User 26 Jul 2018
In reply to ClimberEd:

Why? If I was training to run a flat half marathon I wouldn't bother with hills much. If I was training to run hills I wouldn't do much speed training.

 yorkshireman 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:

> Why? If I was training to run a flat half marathon I wouldn't bother with hills much. If I was training to run hills I wouldn't do much speed training.

Speed training makes you strong no matter what terrain you're running. I do mainly off-road ultra distance with ~70,000m of vertical a year so its generally not fast, but try to do a road speed session once every 10 days or so. The problem with any training is that if you just do one thing and don't mix it up, you'll plateau.

Its far more fun as well. I really thought one year I'd go for a sub 3 hour marathon so stuck to the road and flattish training and bored myself silly.

 mrphilipoldham 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:

Ever done the Buxton half?  

 ClimberEd 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:

Improves form.

Improves strength, which keeps form in the latter part of races.

You want to run fast, train in the hills.

 wbo 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:You need to do both, no matter the distance.  If all you do is run long, steady  hills, dont expect to run fast

 

 The New NickB 26 Jul 2018
In reply to Removed User:

Running uphill enables you to run harder without running faster, which is more likely to cause injury problems. We regularly run a hill session as a form of speed training.

 mbh 26 Jul 2018
In reply to ClimberEd:

I am sure I have heard it said by a/some fell runners (though this may be apocryphal) that to do well they need also to train on the flat - to go fast in the hills, train on the flat, so to speak.

The rationale being that, in the hills, you are sometimes going down or on the flat so do need to be able to go fast, and your legs need to be reminded of what actually going fast is like.

 mbh 26 Jul 2018
In reply to wbo:

That's my experience. I run lots of hills, with little variety in the type, if not the location, of the runs I do. I am getting slower. Age is probably a factor (I'm 55), plus the fact that I don't really care about events any more, but only three years ago I was significantly faster, and I don't think it is a coincidence that this was a time when, for months, two or three times a week, I would run nine miles from work to catch a lift home, the last six of those being flat or downhill. The going was good and I didn't want to be late. My legs got used to running fast.

 ClimberEd 26 Jul 2018
In reply to mbh:

I didn't say don't run on the flat, I just said run in the hills (as this is most often neglected). Speed work is always important.

 wbo 26 Jul 2018
In reply to ClimberEd: I think it's very easy for people to skip speedwork and assume that running lots of hills will do the job instead, but that is very rarely the case. Most people won't hammer thehills hard enough, and you know if you're doing flat kilometres you can run till failure.  Who does that on a hilly steady (outside Kenya).?

I would love to see Killian Jornets training diary - I know his routes are long, hilly and technically very difficult , but I'd love to see some inciinforma on speedwork, effort levels and so on.  Maybe Strava?

 

OP PPP 26 Jul 2018
In reply to wbo:

He's on Strava, just not very active: https://www.strava.com/activities/160075623/overview

 

Thanks everyone - lots of useful information I will need to digest! 

 

 yorkshireman 27 Jul 2018
In reply to PPP:

> He's on Strava, just not very active: https://www.strava.com/activities/160075623/overview

> Thanks everyone - lots of useful information I will need to digest! 

I think he's sponsored by Suunto so think he's probably just paying lip service to Strava. He's more active on Movescount (run by Suunto). However maybe you have to be signed up to see the details?

http://www.movescount.com/members/member1018-kilianjornet


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