UKC

Watch his eyes at 0.09!!

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/status/1028991144896684032?s=19

I think Corbyn has been a massive force for good in the labour party in terms of re engaging and re energising the grass roots and reminding people what labour should stand for.

But, like a lot of politicians on the fringes with no expectation of actual power he has made some questionable choices in the past. Not Johnson or reese mogg dodgy but enough to make him a tricky choice for prime minister. In many ways he reminds me of john smith. Maybe he should be looking for a proper successor, rather than clinging to the leadership himself? 

John Smith would have made a fine Prime Minister although lacked the popular appeal of Blair. It's a shame he died so relatively young.

Agreed. I think what i meant  was that without him the 1997 victory would not have happenned, but im not sure he would have won it himself

Agreed. His family home is just down the road from me. People were crying in the street when he died. Who knows what if etc.

Toad: Smith would have easily won the 1997 election. The torie's appeal had totally burnt out and John Major (whom I have a degree of respect for) had zero charisma, which sadly matters. By how much is moot, but Blair undoubtedly appealed to the non-partisan voters. New Labour was almost in effect a new party but with a reassuringly established old name. We could do with one of them now, but it isn't going to happen under Corbyn. As much as I like and respect the man, he's in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think it's fair on John Smith to compare Corbyn to him. Smith had held ministerial and cabinet positions in Callaghan's government whereas Corbyn's not done so much as serve on a committee in his 30 undistinguished years on the back benches. Smith continued Kinnock's work in dismantling the union's power in Labour bringing in 'one member one vote' so he was very much of the soft left and not of Corbyn's hard left tradition. And Smith was well equipped to be a fine Prime Minister. Something Corbyn's shown no aptitude for at all.

I agree that Corbyn should go now and hand the reins to someone less tarnished and more capable.

With a tell like that he probably should give up the dream of being a professional poker player after politics.   Or negotiating anything important.  Ever.

Yeah, we're all better off sticking with the Tories, eh?
You're pathetic, all you can do is pick pick pick at Corbyn.

Very difficult to say just now, really. 

Apologies for not worshipping the messiah appropriately 

It's not Corbyns fault, he was either,

A. Just walking by and saw a person struggling with a heavy wreath and offered to assist.

B. As a long term tory mole he is following orders to create headlines that over shadow the letter boxes. 

Either way, it's a gift to the Tories. It's as if with the current arguments in Labour what is the stupidest thing I can do... I don't think he wants to be leader any more and is just seeing how far he can push it. 

That's what is needed I think 

Labour's position is that the DM have fabricated the "terrorist memorial" part of this story. So someone's lying. 

Either JC is an anti-Jew terrorist sympathiser, or possibly the right wing media are digging up any possible crumb of a story to crush their political opponent who wants to raise taxes for giant corporations and opposes the illegal occupation of Palestine which threatens Mr Netanyahu who this year happens to be buying a record quantity of weapons from the UK. 

JC in that clip is being almost cartoonishly obviously shifty.  He may as well have winked.  Of course the DM is probably being similarly shifty.  It isn't either/or.

JC would help his case by giving a clear statement though, "I was there but can't really remember whether I laid the wreath etc" sounds a lot like lying to cover up what he did. He statement sounds deceitful and adds weight to the Fail's version of events.

Give corbyn a few days and his story will change.

The train was full.

There were a few empty seats.

We couldn't sit together.

Ok there was plenty room and the staff offered to help, we fabricated the whole footage. 

Whoever manages his media briefings needs to stand aside and let someone else take over.

If he travelled there with honest intentions a savy media advisor would have prepared a press release for him, updated his web feeds etc before he even flew out of the UK in first place. The fact that neither him or his advisors have an ounce of competency is one thing, I'm more shocked that he is still considered leadership material by so many. 

He's crossed way over the line and should resign.   This level of association with terrorists who attacked the Olympics and another EU country is unacceptable for someone who wants to be PM.   What would the UK press make of a German party leader laying wreaths to IRA members who perpetrated one of the most famous terrorist attack in the UK.

It is getting talked about as if it was purely about the Palestinians and Israel but this group attacked the Olympics, they killed a German policeman, they demanded the release of the Baader Meinhof gang leaders from prison and they hijacked a German passenger plane to get the captured terrorists released.

You do know that whatever happened, happened in 2014, right? The Daily Mail dug this up from the past, he wasn't there yesterday

And that makes it acceptable? And his lying about being part of it? Was he on some HF holiday out rambling and just happened to stumble upon it? 

Honest open Jeremy, hardly. 

Well, I don't think I said anything about it being acceptable, or not - just that your comments about media advisors, press releases etc and the way your posts were worded suggested you thought he'd been there just recently, ie. as leader of the opposition. Just wanted to make sure you hadn't misunderstood the situation, that's all. I do realise that if you already think he's the antichrist, you'll continue to think so.

That would be unfair on the anti Christ.

Corbyn's approach is the same as the "yes, I smoked it but didn't inhale" approach to trying to evade the obvious.

A point that applies to the man dozens of times over.

Lay a wreath for one thing in a cemetery that contains other dead too.

It echoes Reagan laying a wreath for German soldiers but the cemetery also contained SS dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitburg_controversy

I left Labour 18 months ago. I couldn't vote for Corbyn and the party is gravely, maybe terminally damaged for me. It'll be a long struggle to return it to decent values and to get rid of the small but effective nasty element who now infest it under the current leadership. Corbyn going would only be the first step in a long fight to restore the party to be a decent, democratic, progressive force. He won't go anywhere now. Too many people have nailed their colours to his mast to allow him to go down, no matter how much more sordid and repellant this gets.

Really hoping for the much longed for new centrist party to appear to give me someone to vote for and some hope of decent sensible government instead of the current racists, xenophobes, little Englanders, anti-semites, tankies and headbangers of the left and right.

Jeremy Corbyn does not remind me of John Smith at all.

John Smith achieved an Arts degree and a Law degree at Glasgow University. He went on to become a successful advocate. Jeremy Corbyn "achieved" 2 A Level E "passes".

John Smith managed to unite most of the Labour party, left and right wings. [Apart from Jeremy Corbyn and a few others.] Jeremy Corbyn presides over the most divided Labour Party I can remember.

John Smith had a sense of humour. I may be wrong but I have no evidence that Jeremy Corbyn has any sense of humour at all.

John Smith was a hillwalker. Jeremy Corbyn photographs drain covers, makes jam and grow vegetables on his allotment. [Each to his own.]

John Smith was pro - EU [Common Market, EEC, etc in its earlier forms]. Jeremy Corbyn has a history of being against the EU. I am not convinced that he is pro EU today.

I could go on.

Also the only politician (in my time ) whose death stopped the court. 

Your only relevant point is your final one. I’m only interested in his policies. Corbyn is clearly not an actual terrorist though he may have sympathy with causes with which terrorist groups also sympathise and has thus compromised his integrity.

It is really hard to know where to place my allegiances as a social democrat, progressive chap.

Do you not think the ability to unite rather than divide people (point 2) is rather important in a politician?

Here's a much longer CH4 interview with Jeremy in which he explains what was going on in Tunis and then answers a lot of hostile questions on the wider issue of his attitude to Israel and Palestine. Worth the 9 minutes or so to hear it from the horse's mouth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-95TdSUG_k&feature=share

It would be interesting to know which other British politicians attended that conference and whether they attended the wreath laying ceremony.

I think it's also worth taking a moment to call out the stinking hypocrisy of Benjamin Netanyahu who criticised Jeremy in a tweet yesterday. Benjamin Netanyahu defended the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in which scores died as a legitimate military operation and not terrorism: https://www.haaretz.com/1.4858473

I was delighted to read that Jeremy suggested that Benjamin stick his tweet up his arse. The idea that a turd like that can lecture anyone on morals is frankly ludicrous.

You just beat me to it. I was going to raise the Irgun plaque, which was unveiled by Netanyahu himself. Something smells bad about the UK press and the chattering classes, including on here, frothing at Corbyn while forgetting that Netanyahu openly celebrates his own nationalist terrorist movement which murdered hundreds including a great many British servicemen. 

Two things aside, 1: since when did anyone think that taking Netanyahu's side in anything regarding basic humanity had any currency; 2: Corbyn still needs to go, partly because of Brexit and partly because he is too easy a target for the scum media and press.

I listened to that. Quite a bit was unsurprising (and reasonable) about his attitude to Israeli policy.  His answers around to detail of this wreath laying business were testy and confusing though, really.  Together with his body language in the clip the OP, it just leaves me with the impression he is not being straightforward here.

Several have said they were at the conference.  I haven't seen any reports of others at the cemetery.

I think everyone can agree Netanyahu is a shit.

What so you can call him a cult? You really seem to be confused about what you want. Apart from getting rid of JC obviously, we all realise this is what you really really want.

Cults by definition divide people!

Anyway  St Jeremy has won a Nobel Prize and you are right-wing if you say otherwise 

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1029448470028013570?s=19

Are you sure about that?

Err, yes. 

It's not very funny, but every time I see your thread title I feel a glimmer of hope, before it's dashed again...

You do crack me up, you post a link with some idiot saying something as if that's proof the JCs some sort of cnut ( it really has nothing to do with him), and you you're quite prepared to believe JC's a Russian spy, and terrorist, an anti-Semite, a Trotsky-leninist communist, Beelzebub, Satanist, and yet your not prepared to believe he's spent his life trying to achieve peace and fight against war.

I don't know much about the recent "wreath of doom"  story, but weren't the graves of the people involved in a different country, namely Libya rather than Tunisia?

Whereas most people actually just see him as in competent.

Also, imagine if the Queen shook hands with an ex-lead figure of the IRA who has been imprisoned for carrying explosives and ammunition in their car!

...oh hang on

Momentum supporters are nothing to do with Corbyn??

and you you're quite prepared to believe JC's a Russian spy, and terrorist, an anti-Semite, a Trotsky-leninist communist, Beelzebub, Satanist,

Actually I don't.

Not really, or certainly not effectively.  I can't think any concrete achievements he's made despite being in a position of influence and power as MP for decades.

It's not very clear.  Most likely it seems their leader was in the cemetery Corbyn was at.  It's his evasiveness and shiftiness that I was mainly commenting on.  Not the behaviour of someone being straightforward about what happened.

Haven't seen the Queen getting invites to Sinn Fein conferences and wreath laying for IRA 'volunteers'.

There's really no point in Labour pretending that Jeremy Corbyn  wasn't a sympathiser of the IRA and PLO.   He's a 1970's Citizen Smith clone from the cold war days when Russia backed the IRA/PLO/Baader Meinhoff etc.  

I wouldn't care except that having Corbyn as leader of Labour gives the Tories a free hand.

She sends letter's of condolences instead. Maybe JC should go for the more personal touch next time.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/21/martin-mcguinness-former-ira-co...

Does it never cross your mind that there maybe something more than JCs past here?

Since most of these "revelations" are from at least four years ago, including, "the one with the mural", "the one where JC meets the IRA", "the one with the wreath in a different country to the graves", etc., etc.

Don't you think this is a little suspicious that they come out one after they other? All from over four years ago, you don't seem to be coming up with them yourself, so they weren't a massive story, or at least one that interested you enough to be able to recall any of them without the aid of the media.

Or are you suggesting that the people behind these stories are simply coming across them on a week / monthly basis by accident.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2017/jan/07/israeli-official-shai...

https://www.facebook.com/aljazeera/videos/how-to-set-up-a-pro-israel-lobby-...

Of course this won't fit with your narrative, and I'll be one of the tin-foil hat brigade. Obviously these clips aren't from four years ago, so they might not be evidence as far as you're concerned, and they are actual evidence of the man himself saying the things he actually said, rather than someone telling you what you're seeing and hearing, but still?

I think I said this before but it's worth another go, why not put your prejudices to one side for a moment, think for yourself a little and realise this isn't good for our countries politics. Whatever you think of Corbyn, let the poles decide and not the media, or anyone else influence.

It seems to me that, what Mr. Masot, is talking about in the clips is exactly what's happening. But it's helping no one, least of all the Jewish community or British politics. Bibi lecturing anyone about the company they keep is pretty rich in my book.

they must be shit scared of Corbyn to put this much effort into getting rid of him.

Well no but Jeremy attended a conference set up by the Tunisian head of state and attended by a tory and a Lib Dem as well. Not only that but there were US politicians in attendance as well.

If you had had a look at the interview I linked to you would have known that.

I realise though that it's very easy to be misled by the smear campaign that is being mounted by those that wish to damage him and the Labour party.

But she's shaken that hands of the killers of her second cousin, and uncle of Prince Philip, guilty by association?

You seemed to have missed out the Americans backing the IRA, or doesn't that fit with your narrative?

Do you not think it's possible to sympathise with someone's cause, but not their methods?

Of course there is.  It's called politics.

Of course I don't.  I wasn't too interested in a eccentric far-left MP four years ago.  Nor was anyone else really.

I'm sure they are real, and rather tame run of mill grubby politics really. What is it that surprises you about them?  Hardly Cambridge Analytica type stuff.

The poles!?  I'm a remainer but there are limits! 

I'm not quite sure how you learn anything without others' influence.

And yet who if anyone is saying so? There are very few people prepared to raise their voices against him, maybe they are too scared for their reputations.

Maybe they couldn't fight the backlash against them, they might be too weak to deal with the reprisals.

This.

She's shaken hands with Martin McGuinness and wrote a letter of condolence to his widow .  The difference is Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams renounced violence and were mainstream UK politicians and leaders of a recognised political party for decades.   Martin McGuinness was Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and presumably protocol dictates that when someone who held that role dies the Queen writes a note of condolence.

What Corbyn did is more like laying a wreath for Bobby Sands.   

No, that's not right.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-munich-attack-...

"Mr Corbyn also made reference a wreath being laid for Bseiso in an article for the Morning Star in 2014.

He wrote: “After wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991, we moved to the poignant statue in the main avenue of the coastal town of Ben Arous, which was festooned with Palestinian and Tunisian flags.”

Atef Bseiso being the guy (allegedly) killed by Mossad in Paris for planning the Munich attacks.

The fact that Corbyn was writing a trip report about a PLO event in a communist newspaper in 2014 says a fair bit about his politics and suitability as a future PM.

WTF he is not only an apologist for terrorists he turns up to commemorate their deaths. No comparison to Boris or Mogg. If you want  empty shelves Jeremy is your man. Why do you think he has an alotmemt? 

So the fact that he lived down the road and people cried when he died makes him Prime Ministerial. That qualifies a lot of folk. 

I think the "(allegedly)"  should go later in that sentence. 

I'm not really a fan of JC's particular brand of student politics (such things are probably better confined to the back benches) however you're dead right in saying there is no comparison to Boris or Mogg:  either of those is a far greater threat to the future well-being of this country and the majority of its citizens than Corbyn ever will be.

Are you suggesting that he has an allotment for the same reason that Rees Mogg is moving his money offshore then?

He’s more anti EU than either; will kill business and enterprise; capital will take flight; industry will shut down; but for those old enough to remember 1979 it will be a glorious trip down memory lane. 

No

Sure does. 

Every now and then these generally civilised forums get invaded by some braindead gobshite who carpet bombs threads with ill-considered, tedious and unconstructive posts. Yes, I'm talking about you. Do please bugger off to Youtube and come back when you can think of something worthwhile to say, preferably after you have addressed your drinking habits.

Thankyou.

They’re not the only alternatives. Labour could  come to its senses, boot out the entryists, and develop an election winning narrative. It’s not going to be easy though now the Trots have got a stranglehold on internal governance. Corbyn would be funny if the Tories weren’t imploding. But the idea that Trots could win an election on a Blairite mantra is rather cruelly ironic. 

Indeed. Corbyn out, Chuka or similar in and Labour would either force an election or landslide the next one in a few years. If the lib dems wake up they could scoop up a few seats from the debris, but they need to get rid of fallon and cable first. 

This is the best summary I have read

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/15/jeremy-corbyn-honesty...

In some senses the actual events behind wreath, train, adams/mcguiness.... gate don't matter.

It is his lack of clarity on detail and lies, as with each press release he creeps nearer the truth. His whole mantra of honest and open is just not practiced. 

Whilst his disciples won't hear a bad word against him, in reality he is no better or worse than any other under achieving long term back bencher welded into a safe seat. 

Chuka!! really? It would be a toss-up between him and Tory ( in other words neither)

Chuka!! WTF!

Well it's Labour choice. Look at the state of things now, Labour should be walking all over May... But it still can't compete. A school debating club could probably do better in opposition than the Labour shadow cabinet.

You can stand by your man, but you won't have a sniff of winning. Corbyns reached peak vote and every month that goes by with his lack of anything meaningful politics, they'll lose a few more voters. If the lib dems decide to reactivate and take the centre a little with a decent pro eu leader, Labour could be wiped out in 4 years. 

And the 47 Palestinians killed in the Israeli air strike count for nothing, they were all terrorists I suppose. Anything good about the Tunisian casualties, or were they terrorists too.

It's nothing at all like laying a wreath for Bobby Sands, almost all the world condemned Israel for that air strike at the time, FFS EVEN Thatcher AND the USA spoke out against it, so let's not try and make out someone protesting it is in the wrong.

If you, or any one else for that matter, seems to think this is being reported fairly, see how easy it is to find out the numbers of people killed or who they were, compared to how bad it is that Corbyn laid a wreath for, extra-judicially murdered people.

Edit : "

A P.L.O. spokesman said 60 people were killed in the attack today, ''including women and children, many of them Tunisians.'' The Tunisian authorities said 60 people were wounded, 25 severely.

The Israeli military command in Tel Aviv said 30 to 50 people had been killed and ''a larger number were wounded.'' "

The action was condemned by a vote of 14 to 0 (the United States delegate abstaining) in the Security Council of the United Nations Oct. 5. The resolution branded the deed (which President Reagan had originally condoned) as an ``act of armed aggression perpetrated by Israel against Tunisian territory in flagrant violation of the Charter of the United Nations, international law, and norms of conduct.''

But this isn't being reported today is it?

It's Corbyn laid a wreath at terrorists graves, it might do some people well to remember some of those "terrorists" were children.

Almost anyone except Corbyn would wipe the floor with the tories if a GE was held any time soon. Chuka is sound on Brexit (imho) and he'd attract a swathe of votes from the centre right leftwards. He wouldn't get the solidly right, the partisan tories and the newly legitimised racists but he wouldn't need them. What he'd be like as a PM I've no idea but seeing as the bar is lying on the floor at the moment..., hell I reckon I could make a reasonable fist of it compared to anyone on the tory front bench. Personally I find Chuka a bit too smarmy but that hardly matters. 

Chaka's the whole antithesis of what Corbyn stands for, you asking to go back to the Blair days, and there's not many want that.

I believe we were being told Labour would be decimated at the last election, Corbyn wouldn't win the last leadership vote, any number of other bullshit poles etc. but none of them came true. The Lib Dems are done for as much as you don't like the idea, Clegg nailed their coffin tightly shut.

This peak vote you speak of, where's the evidence for this?

You don't consider the fact that honest and open a new kind of politics Corbyn lied about his involvement, then changed his account, a factor in how he can't really be trusted anymore than any other mp?

No one's objecting to him remembering victims of the Israeli attack...

If you remove the admittedly overwhelmingly large matter of Iraq, I reckon Blair, or someone like him, would have an even bigger landslide than in 1997. I am more of a Corbyn man, (EU aside), but he isn't taking the Labour Party anywhere except perpetual opposition. I'd love to see another Blair right now. 

I think the problem for Jeremy Corbyn is he is no Michael Foot and even Michael Foot who was clearly a decent honest man of considerable ability couldn't get elected on very similar policies (albeit the conservatives were much better led). I fear Jeremy Corbyn led Labour won't be getting elected. Maybe Labour should skip a political generation and go for someone like Dan Jarvis, if he could be persuaded. Not as left wing but much more likely to get to form a government.

Might pick up  Liberal voters too. 

keir starmer?

He would do.  The pity is that both major parties seem to have quite a lot of talented people who aren't getting promoted Keir Starmer being an exception. 

There were wreaths laid for the victims of the Israeli air strike and separately for a terrorist killed by Mossad in Paris.  Corbyn's own article in Morning Star is clear about this "“Wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991.”

I'm not sure why anyone would get worked up about me suggesting Corbyn's action was like laying a wreath for Bobby Sands when he once took part in a commemoration for 8 IRA men shot by the SAS while trying to blow up a police station and said "I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/15/jeremy-corbyn-honesty...

https://twitter.com/anyabike/status/1029239767366549509

Are you sure?

Dan would be a very good choice indeed. 

It is clear that he was involved in laying at least one wreath, it is not clear if he was involved in laying both. I’ve heard that he wasn’t the only British politician there, do we know who the others were.

I’m not particularly a Corbyn fan, but it is not accurate to suggest that the policy direction of the current Labour Party is anything like as left wing as it was under the leadership of Michael Foot. The actual policies are generally pretty mainstream social democratic stuff.

You are quite correct concerning the 1983 manifesto it was well beyond the current position.

I should have expressed myself better. 

However the impression I have is that Jeremy Corbyn would like to go to the Michael Foot position (and was first elected on that 1983 manifesto) I may be wrong but I think there are many in the current party who would support that manifesto which would probably be no less suicidal now than it was then.