UKC

Blimey! That 2 hour mark is getting closer...

Eliud Kipchoge sets new marathon world record in Berlin - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/45539546

In reply to mountainbagger:

Blows my mind. They run 26 + miles at a pace faster than I can run a single mile! And I would consider myself a runner.

In reply to Removed User:

Yes, I've just divided 121 by 26.2 and get 4.36.

Amazing.

In reply to mountainbagger:

His vest seemed to be flapping about a bit - marginal gain?

 

In reply to mountainbagger:

Just incredible!

In reply to J Brown:

Are you implying that is not credible or are you praising it? Genuine question 

In reply to Pedro50:

Sorry, perhaps 'amazing' would've been a better term!  I wasn't querying the credibility (or cleanliness!) of the record, just praising it.  As mentioned above, it's 26 miles at a pace which is just astonishing.

I was listening to some coverage this morning, and they were discussing the sub-2hr marathon.  Hmm, still seems a way off, but it's an exciting prospect.

In reply to J Brown:

Knocked 1:18 off existing WR, biggest improvement since 1967. Utterly smashed it. There is no-one else of the current crop of distance runners anywhere close to this, and I cant see that he can make such a leap again towards sub 2hr.

But who knows?

Amazing stuff.

In reply to mountainbagger:

There's a great pic going around "How long could you hang?" with splits for 100m, 200m, 400m, k, 5k, etc. Suspect the answer for most of us is "about 100m"!

https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6249756-enjoy-some-more-jaw-dropping-stat...

In reply to steveriley:

Interesting snippet from that post

Tirunesh Dibaba has now run three sub-2:19 marathons; only Paula Radcliffe has more with four (Note: Mary Keitany has two, and nobody else has more than one).

In reply to steveriley:

One of the faster guys in my club, a low 16 5k runner, pointed out that he ran each mile 12 seconds faster than his 1 mile PB.

It is astonishing, remember though he ran more than a minute quick at the Nike Sub 2 event, which for various reasons doesn’t count as a record.

In reply to mountainbagger:

I wonder how he'd fair in a mountain ultra event against the likes of Kilian Jornet? Would be interesting to see.

In reply to Phil79:

I think Kilian would obliterate him.  And if they were to race on the road over a marathon - he would finish a long long time before Kilian.  I think it would have to be a pretty weird course for it to be a good contest.

In reply to mountainbagger:If it was something relatively non-technical like Sierre Zinal I suspect he would blow the legs off of everybody: I've raced Kenyans at x.country and a bit of mud and some hills didn't seem to slow them down, and big draggy hills will be right up his street..  On anything technical I guess inexperience will slow him down - I really don't know.

I thought about this a bit yesterday - it is an astonishing piece of running, but it's round about my 10k pb, and if you're absolutely world class then maybe running 4 times the distance at that same pace is feasible.  The other thing you knid of know is that if he's so close to 2 hrs then someone else will think 'I know him, train with him - maybe me instead'

 

In reply to wbo:

Just looked up some of the stats - his last 10k would have broken the world 10,000m record in 1956.......

In reply to Ian W:

Wonder how his last 5k compares to all park runs? Would it place him top 10?

In reply to goldmember:

I would imagine so. If you can do 5k in 14.20 then I would think you are a pretty serious runner.......

In reply to goldmember:

The course record for men of 13 minutes 48 seconds was set on 11 August 2012 and is held by Andrew Baddeley, the previous record of exactly 14 minutes was held by Australian Craig Mottram. Baddeley's time is also the fastest Parkrun time ran anywhere in the world.

In reply to mountainbagger:

Interestingly Paula Radcliffe's Marathon time was 9.21% worse than the existing mens' record which was the closest % of any track event except Flo Jo's largely discredited 100m. I think this will now be relegated but my maths isn't quite up to it.

Link here: https://zigapskraba.com/2016/09/15/womens-world-records-compared-against-me...

edit I know the marathon is not strictly a track event  

In reply to Pedro50:

I wonder when we'll see Paulas challenged. I remember watching it surreal performance.  Much like Sundays race

In reply to Ian W:

Not forgetting that he was 5000m World Champion aged 19, with a PB of 12:46! Interesting comparison to Haile Gebrselassie, who only concentrated on the marathon relatively late in his career. Kipchoge seems to be the perfect combination of very high basic speed, great endurance and mental strength. His long term focus and dedication sound so simple when he describes his philosophy, but putting it into practice must be very hard indeed. I wouldn't mind betting on him cracking the 2:00:00 on his planned 2nd attempt in Monza.

In reply to mountainbagger:

I'm no expert on marathon records or courses but it seems some are reliably fast courses and some not so. I wonder if what will happen is that some event organiser will seek to design a " "fast course" to see if they can scrape off the last one or two per cent ? 

I imagine that the courses have to be "flat" ie negligible net ascent descent but beyond that constraint how would you design a record course? 

In reply to andrew ogilvie:

The only 2 rules are: 1. Start and finish must not be more than 50% of the race distance apart, measured in a theoretical straight line between them (eliminates wind help), and 2. The total drop in elevation between start and finish must not be more than 1m per km.

Berlin, where the last 7 world records since 2003 have been run, has the advantages of a very flat course on good tarmac, coupled with usually ideal weather, ie 12-16° and little wind (last year was the exception!). The course is modified from year to year to take account of roadworks, but all sharp bends are avoided. The only ways in which the course could be improved would probably be to level the few gentle bridges, and to provide even more trees for shade. 

The very good infrastructure and the support of the crowds do the rest. When Kipchoge ran his 2:00:25 at Monza he was running in the wind shadow of alternating pacemakers, which is why the time wasn't valid as a record.

In reply to McHeath:

It was because he had multiple pacemakers who joined and dropped off at intervals and so did not run the from the start with him. 

Paula’s WR also has caveats around it as she was paced by men. Mary Keitany holds the ‘woman only’ WR and is only about 90s behind her. 

In reply to goldmember:

Last weekend more than 110,000 did Park Run.

The best time in the whole of the UK was a tidy 14.52. Kipchoge bettered that more than 8 times over with an average 5k of 14.24.

It is unfathomable speed and endurance.

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Well it's not really a 'caveat' as such, as it's recognized as a legal world record. You could equally say that Bob Beamon's world record has caveats because it was performed at altitude, or Kipchoge's becuase it was performed in Berlin and not somewhere else.

 

In reply to planetmarshall:

It's a caveat because it isn't allowed anymore whereas competing at altitude and in Berlin is/are still permissible.

In reply to planetmarshall:

They change the goal posts though. Once there were no WRs for marathons, there were world bests, due to course variations etc. I believe at some stage Paula's record was not recognised - due to male pacers and now maybe it is. 

In reply to baron:

It sounds like an attempt to devalue her performance based on a technicality to me. If it was really an issue, the IAAF would have rescinded the record as they have in other events with rule changes, such as the Javelin.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I have no idea why they changed the rules on male pacers.

It would seem to make it difficult for other female runners to break Paula's record.

 

In reply to Pedro50:

Well, there's no "maybe", either it's recognised or it isn't. The IAAF actually acknowledge both Radcliffe's and Keitany's performance - as they do for several other events such as the half marathon and 10k road races.

That's not to say that the IAAF won't change their mind at some point, who knows. But until then it seems unfair to play "No True Scotsman" with Radcliffe when you could play similar games with just about every performance.

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Yes fair enough, the IAAF do actually make that distinction (as they do with the half marathon and 10k road race records), though both records are legally recognized. I definitely think the IAAF are muddying the waters here, though - they should just pick one and stick with it.

...and 90s is a long time

 

In reply to mountainbagger: I tihnk it's not a WR as it was never a WR- at the time they were world bests.  The mens record was only a best. 

 

In reply to wbo:

So it's not a world record just the best anyone has ever done???

In reply to planetmarshall:

Kipchoge just knocked 80seconds off the previous WR. 

In reply to baron:

Bacause they rightly perceived an injustice. The best men cannot find pacers to last the full distance. 

 

In reply to Pedro50:

Which is true and now the best women have the same problem except Paula benefited from male pacers.

It's a classic example of trying to sort out a problem and creating another one.

In reply to baron:

No it’s not. 

There are now two separate races. A men’s race and a woman’s race.

The first woman finisher is no longer hidden in with a hundered men and gets the acoldae they deserve. 

The men get male pacers and the women get women pacers. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

So Paula was able to be paced by men who could maintain the pace she needed fo follow to set a world record.

Now women attempting to break the world record can't have male pacers and other women runners can't maintain a fast enough pace to be really useful.

You don't see that as a problem for any woman wishing to break the world record?

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Like I said, it's a long time.

In reply to baron:

No problem at all. Women are free to run races as Woman only or in mixed competition. There are now two races. Both WRs would count. However the winner of the mixed competition one wouldn’t win any prize money as they wouldn’t be first woman over the line. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Sorry, you've lost me there.

So there are mixed competition races?

In reply to baron:

Yes, the London Marathon. Keitany attempted to break Radcliffe's record this year but in the event came fifth. Had she done so it would have been recognized by the IAAF as a "Marathon World Record (Mixed)".

 

In reply to planetmarshall:

Thanks.  

In reply to planetmarshall:

But the elite women go off earlier. It's not really mixed is it?

In reply to Pedro50:

If the elite woman starts at the championship start then she is eligible for the mixed record. She may even run faster than the elite woman winner but as the positions are done on finish place and not total elapsed time she won’t win.

Hence 5th place from attempting the mixed record.

 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Ok got it thanks 

In reply to Pedro50:

But I think she may have started with the elite women but had her own pacemakers. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Don't really follow, she ran the same race as the other women, starting at the same time but with male pacemakers, as allowed under the rules. She came fifth because she was fifth fastest.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Do they really allow male pacemakers at the elite women's start? I don't remember seeing that. 

In reply to Pedro50:

youtube.com/watch?v=987JZ5kUBY4&