UKC

I will be doing more Sport Climbing next year. Any advice on which are the best to get, please.

Thanks. £20 each, crikey. 

I use alphas too. Just like the petzl draws tbh.

Repeated falls with confidence, and without messing the trad rack up. That's what's paid for. The solid gates though aren't very clip stick friendly, and my trad draw are lighter when going abroad.

DMM Alpha sports or Petzl Spirits.

Buying the Petzl or dmms you are getting into the realms of diminishing returns, they are great but are they really £12 better than the various on offer bundle packs? 

Just look around for good deals on bundles. I got so ct ones a while ago that were very good, £100 ish for 15.

Hi,  Another vote for alpha sport, but I put mine on Petzl express which makes a good (best?) overall draw.  Like you say, that comes at a price, plus a weight penalty.  I notice R&R had a good deal on Mammut wall express solid gate three pack, maybe consider making some draws with those.  

Biggish, plain gate, keylock krabs are what you want - almost all brands' version of that work. Fat tapes as well are ideal but I find, thinner tape isn't the end of the world. I still love my DMM Shadows, a bit cheaper than Alphas. The Aeros are fine too and a bit cheaper. http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2013/10/dmm-shadow-dmm-alpha-and-dmm-...

It's sport climbing and you're not hauling a massive rack along so arguments about weight are there for the rich or talented.

Practically speaking you might want to be more concerned with ones that you can get consistently the "right way up", with a chunky build (so you don't worry about nicks from bolts), a clean nose (so they go through the bolt 1st time and don't snag and the rope clips easily) and a chunky tape (should you want to grab one) but most of this is marginal and a cheap QD will do it's main job just as well as an expensive one.

Personally I prefer wire gates for both ends and some fancy solid gate one I used recently were a PITA with a clip stick. 

Won’t argue with that but the op did ask for the best.

Are they £12 better? I don’t know but they’re the only ones I buy, much nicer to clip and I need all the help I can get!

"Best to get", which you could argue includes value for money. I've got Alphas because I got a great deal and they are a quality product but will likely get something better value when I have to replace them.

EDIT: A lot of the budget packs seem to be 12cm slings and I prefer a mix of 18 cm and longer. That does seem to limit the options a bit.

Thanks, this addresses many of my concerns. As I intend doing a lot of sports climbing I do not want to be using my Trad Draws, and no confusion over which way up is an interesting comment.

Also the comments re clip sticks is interesting as a lipstick is an important part of my armoury. 

Maybe a some wire gates with a chunky, fabric bit?? Now what is the bit in the fabric middle called, for some reason I think a "Bone"
EDIT. Just reading Toby Blog "DogBones"

As £20 is in the Crikey area, could we now say Best Value, not cheapest though.

It's always worth bearing in mind that you do in fact get more for your money with higher quality QD's.  Typically you are paying for gates that open wider, ergonomic design that feels better in the hand, gate closures that do not snag and what seems like a better build quality overall.  The question of course is are you willing to pay for that.  Alphas feel fantastic but were not available when I bought my Shadows which come a close second.  Personally I prefer solid gates for sport and if I were buying now I would get Alphas.  Cheaper ones are of course perfectly adequate and solid or wire gate is a personal choice.

Al

Not if you've got a Pongoose

"interesting as a lipstick is an important part of my armoury.": is this because looking your best boosts your confidence? :-D

Useful review here if you haven’t already found it - https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/quickdraws/sport_quickdraws-8719

Alan

You’ll usually get a deal on quantities of Alpha Sports at V12. I’ve found the solid gate Alpha to be rock solid in the BetaClimbing clip sticks which I think was designed around the Alpha. Might be wrong here, but it does fit well.

as far as price is concerned, it’s not a great deal to pay for your sport, which should last a long time.

I've used the DMM Shadows for years and they are bomber, and competitively priced.

https://dmmclimbing.com/Products/Quickdraws/Shadow-(on-11mm-Dynatec)

Another vote for Shadows. Alphas look cool but a straight backed krab fits way better in my hand

Wire gates potentially a problem on bolts: https://dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/May-2015/Carabiner-and-bolt-interaction

It doesn't always happen but it can so worth knowing about at least.

Which can be negated by using a clean nose wire gate like WC Helium, Camp Dion, DMM Alpha Trad or shield...

The best are Petzl Spirit. The build quality and in particular the anodising is impeccable. They are well known to be just about as indestructible as it's possible to get. They are not cheap and more pertinently rarely on sale. However, unless you are a massive sport climber worrying about the krabs wearing out is unlikely to be a significant issue.

In terms of usability the DMM Alpha Sport are easily as good and as loads of others have said are a great draw.

The same can probably also be said for the uncannily similar Wild Country Proton although they have a fractionally different gate action. The spring action is probably marginally stiffer and personal preferences see to vary between; preferring them, not noticing it in the slightest and not being a fan...

FWIW I bought DMM Alpha Sport a few years ago as I couldn't justify the additional premium for the Petzl Spirits.

I have issues with my clip stick and alphas some times. it doesnt hold the gates as securely and they sometimes clip closed if knocked before getting them through the bolt.

 I also carry a couple of wire gated long draws, one with a revolver on, and both with long "trad" style sling/tape. If the clip is awkward/ problematic, I'll use one of these.

I personally find when dogging a route, I rarely clip stick more than a bolt or two. The long trad tapes offer easy scope for extending if required, both are useful at the anchors and the revolver makes stripping a route far smoother.

Theres a hundred ways of doing the same thing I'm sure.

This has been discussed a couple of time recently, my view below.

Decent discussion on sport draws here:

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,28890.msg567017.html#msg5670...

My contribution was:

Totally agree on longer quickdraws - 17/18 cm form the core of my rack, plus a few longer ones and just a couple of short ones.  Never understood why majority of quickdraws on sale are 10/12 cm.  Thick nylon tape is my other requirement.

On price I can never get very excited by premium draws, just buy whatever's decently priced and never had a problem, can usually find something for around £10-£12 per draw.   Most recently got some black diamond freewires on offer at £50 for 6.  I guess miss out on some of the smart shaping plus they don't have a clean nose which may bother you if you're into really steep stuff but has never been a significant issue for me.

Tru' dat' cuz. Although they all tend to be rather pricey options too - but if you want one set of krabs to do everything, form sport to ice, Heliums or similar might be the ones.

Apparently can be a safety issue if the nose snags on the bolt, as linked to above.

Have seen that, but seems like a pretty unlikely scenario, most people have climbed without clean nose carabiners for years without issue (I certainly have) - is there any instances of this actually causing an accident in the real world?  Normal carabiners are still sold and meet all safety requirements I assume.

Certainly cases of them being broken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=168&v=nDSg0vlDhm0

Note that you can clearly see the top biner is hooked up in one of the shots.

I suspect that's because the vast majority of climbers find 12cm QD's perfectly adequate and that is probably reflected in sales.  I just carry a coupe of 18cms QD's and a 60cm Alpine Draw  for the odd occasion that a bolt is off to one side.  I have NEVER had any issues with rope drag.  Shorter QD's also feel less of a hindrance on the harness and easier to manage in general but that's probably a personal thing.

Al

I just know from reading about it, but I wouldn't make the judgement based on anecdotal evidence either. Just thought it worth mentioning since carabiners/quickdraws/bolts were being discussed.

You forgot that all important short draw "its all in the head" advantage - you have less distance to fall!

Seasoned sport climbers wont care, the reality of the situation doesn't matter, but plenty of people will still feel more secure with not so much extension when pushing their mental limits.

NEVER sounds very certain - I've spent a lot of time climbing at Gordale this summer and doing the routes there with just 12cm draws would definitely be interesting.  Lots of other long routes where longer draws help (and I need all the help I can get) and not many place where they are significant hindrance.  In the end its a personal thing I guess.    

That's how I felt when I was starting out. Seems a bit silly now. I wonder if that's what drives the budget market which seems dominated by 12cm slings? Perhaps just because they're cheaper too I suppose.

Now I've got a lot more comfortable with taking bigger 'safe' falls the advantages of longer draws win out. It does reduce drag on routes, generally means you have to pull up less rope to clip and you need less draws when extending clips on redpoints (for example using 2x25cm instead of 4x12cm).

If you want the 'best' you are going to have to pay a little more. In my opinion the ease of use especially when climbing at your limit is worth it. If you aren't climbing at your limit, trying to push your redpoint grade, then the differences become less noticeable. 

Draws - DMM Alpha, mostly 18cm with a couple 12cm and 25cm, or the equivalent Petzl Spirits

Belay device - Petzl GriGri 2

Clipstick - Pongoose 

Belay crab - DMM Ceros

Nice to have:

Petzl connect adjust and DMM locksafe PerfectO.

Another vote for the Alpha's! One of my climbing partners picked up a couple for 15% off from Cold Mountain Kit, earlier this week.

What is the difference between Aeros and Shadows?   Am I right in thinking the Shadow is just an I-beam version of the Aero?  Or is there a size difference? 

Same size, Aero is 6g heavier and £1 cheaper.

Thanks everyone. Been giving some Alpha Sports a fondle in V12 and they do some good deals.
Also my climbing sensei has recommended some other draws for me to look at.
No rush, but thanks again.

I've got some Wild Country Protons, they clip nicely and don't seem to weigh an excessive amount, no real signs of damage but I don't fall off very often (not trying hard enough to fall off very often!), outside had them on a deal for 12 quid a pop which made them reasonably cheap, they're not 12 quid a pop better than using my trad draws though.

I'm gonna say the same thing as I said when someone wanted shoe advice.

Go to a shop with a wide range, give them all a try, then get the ones that felt best to you.  It might not be the ones you were expecting....

Fro what I have read in bergundsteigen the current recommendation is at the minimum to have a keylock biner on the bolt side and a wire gate on the rope side. If you can afford the combination of keylock + wiregate you have the best setup obviously. I'll see of I can find the article again. In unfortunate circumstances biners have broken at 2kN and caused several deaths, due to gate flutter e.g.

To the OP:

Alphas or Petzl Ange will be great. If you don't have that kind of money to spend, the Ocun Hawk Combi sets work for me: http://www.ocun.com/en/products/hardware/quickdraw-sets/hawk-qd-combi-pad16...

Ange? Why? I don't think they're useful for anything except the hardest onsights.

To the OP: Get something fairly cheap, but look for a clean nose (keylock). Some gates open easier than others (softer spring maybe?), so try them. If you work the routes, then get something with wider sling. Camp Orbit Express is a nice example of what a quickdraw should be. I tried Spirits, too.. but they're just not worth the price difference.

Anges just for the combination of wire and clean nose. Price is similar to DMM Alphas on the continent. BD Hoodwires  are another option.

I use cheaper draws as well, the Ocun ones I linked to.

This is the article (German, but lots of pictures) where they showed the key nose of a carabiner break at 2kN, caused a fall (but not death luckily). The key got hooked in the bolt. So clean nose on bolt side and wire gate on rope side are a must.

https://www.bergundsteigen.at/file.php/archiv/2012/2/52-55%20(karabinerbruc...

Interesting, does seem like there is a potential issue, though how big the risk is to say clean nose is a 'must' I'm not sure.   Other articles (Black Diamond, Rock and Ice) stress the importance of ensuring carabiner is correctly seated rather than stating that none clean nose carabiners are inherently unsafe .  

Not enough for me to replace all my carabiners, though if buying new sports draws maybe going for clean nose make sense.

Prefer wire gates for both ends and some fancy solid gate one I used recently were a PITA with a clip stick. 

I've had entirely the opposite experience - my solid sport draws (DMM Alphas, great things and worth the extra pennies) work superbly with my clipstick. Wiregates do not. 

The groove on the Alpha's gate works really well with my beta clipstick (the old model, not the Evo). Guess it would be a problem without the grooves, so something to look out for. Haven't used wiregates when sport climbing for some time.

Do use a beta clipstick?  Apologies if stating the obvious but I did have to explain to someone this year that the clip fits inside the wire on wiregates and is shaped to hold completely solidly, they were trying to use in on the outside as you do with solid gates.

Yes, and that's a revelation to me as well. However not the reason why I got the Alphas! Was only playing round with it at home with wiregates, rather than using it in anger. IMO I think the Alphas are simply very nice draws to use.