UKC

We have started thinking about the next version of the Rockfax Costa Blanca guidebook - probably due out in a couple of years time.

I suspect that there has been so much development that we may have to be more selective this time round.

There has been plenty of development on crags not covered in the previous guides and we are interested in people’s thoughts on some of these crags.

Any thoughts/comments gratefully received,

Chris

Has a two volume set been considered? For what it's worth, I would welcome a bigger selection of crags, and would happily buy both books.

Adventure vs single-pitch sport would be a nice division, if there's enough of the former. Although I appreciate others might be more interested in splitting by area (including the guidebook editor!).

Nothing is ruled in or out yet - early days. A two volume version has been mulled in the past, but we tend to produce bigger books nowadays, so it may end up being a 'fat boy',

Chris

Just planning my first trip there for a few years. Where are the new crags ?

Well that was the point of the thread really, I haven't been down there for a few years either and there are several decent looking new crags on the database. I was asking for opinions on these,

Chris

Rich might pop up later as yes loads of new stuff all over the place, quite a few crags though that the locals would not want to be in a guidebook, lets hope people respect that wish within reason.(nots not aimed at you Chris btw)

The Edwards have bolted a few new routes in the middle of the routes up at Sella its on their facebook page. Rich climbed then last month and did want to check if anyone else had to check grades.

I have always wondered about two books one sport and one trad but if you go big enough not needed! 

Sam Orange 

The larger Rockfax format is great for shorter routes, where you go to the bottom, and the entire route is clear from the ground up. for adventure routes, or longer routes, a smaller format is better, so you can put it in a pocket while you climb. 

I can't say of climbed in the Costa Blanca (I was in El Chorro and Majorca maybe 25 years ago), but I climb a lot on mid-grade and length alpine sport routes in the Chamonix area.  I see lots of people struggling with the Rockfax guide on account of it's size. Even the Piola guides (e.g. Aiguilles Rouges vols 1&2, Envers) are a little big for a pocket. The old CC size is just perfect to fit in a pocket.

Not saying tat the content of the Rockfax guide is in any way poor (they are generally very good indeed), just the physical size doesn't really work for bigger routes.

Steve

 

Thanks for that, I will be in touch and call round nearer the time - assuming you are in Spain on occasions.

Chris

It's only a guidebook. Take a knife to it!

Steve

Sacrilege!

I cut the page out when needed and sellotape it back in afterwards.

keith s

I take a photo of the relevant pages on my phone. This avoids the need to cut up your guidebook!

'I cut the page out when needed and sellotape it back in afterwards'

If the guidebook was a suitable size for carrying on a route you wouldn't have to do this.

Is there such a thing in practice, though? Obviously it's a question of degree, but isn't any guidebook, even a relatively small one, a bit of a pain on multi pitch?  

Interesting idea, although having to repeat approach info would probably rule it out in practice.

Either copy or photograph the relevant bits needed for the route. Guidebook stays in-tact and route description is easy to carry.

I have done this for alpine routes for about 45 years. Encapsulation also made them weather-proof, once it became a cheap option.

Just to be clear, it's only Rockfax guides I'm talking about. They have no long term value.

Steve

I would just take a picture on my phone when you can’t really carry the book! 

Hi Chris, I’ve been to the area a lot over the years and while many of the current crags are good there are a few venues I would ditch or leave available through the app eg, Marin, Agujas Rojas, Pena Rubia, Olta, Font d’axia, Pego. I could go on. These are all ok but unremarkable. I also wonder how popular the Murcia area is and weather that could be sacrificed to create space for new crags. You could add to the appeal of Cabezon de Oro with Secor Tocayo and the other newer areas around Busot. Agost has El Tunel And Rincon Bello. The Xativa area has great crags in Vallada, Tierra de Nadie and La Fos plus some other very medium venues but I can’t see the locals being chuffed at competition for their own guide. Cocentaina sounds good. At Gandia it would be great to have the beta on Bovedos and bovedin. I suppose the dilemma is there is a wealth of climbing out there with much of it high quality but getting both the info and the permission from the locals means we will always struggle to find the best areas. 

No help with the question asked but one thought - have you considered foreign language versions of some of your book. I ask as when I was in Ariege recently there were quite a few French climbers with the Rockfax, some asking for translations of the text.

Would having a French company (in the case of the Ariege book) produce the book under licence be an option. Not sure how workable or what the overall market would be but local climbers are buying the current one.

Nice idea and it would be something worth considering if the right conditions existed. Unfortunately though it would require so many things to come together that it is unlikely to happen. We did have a German company looking at doing this many years ago but nothing came of it. The problem is that, whilst it is easy to make a guidebook that more than breaks even, introducing a secondary publisher (which is what a translated version would effectively be) into the system, makes everything much harder for both books.

We have set up the app in a format that will accept automatic translations though and this is something we will be rolling out in the next year or so. 

Alan

Ditto (albeit for fewer years than you)...we get a batch of likely routes of interest copied in advance and often just keep this batch after the holiday for future return trips. Photocopied pages out of big format guides are both easier to read than a small guide and get more information on one page and can be reused (many times even if cheaply covered ... a freezer bag works well). There has simply never been a need to carry guidebooks up multipitch routes since photocopies were cheaply avaliable. Photos in phones are also good and you can zoom in but they are harder to read in bright conditions and drain your battery. Other climbers just buy two copies of the guidebook: one to slice and dice and the other to read and record.

Guidebooks can be quite big now their publishers finally realise these simple facts. The latest Yosemite guide is a monster.

I went to one of the bolluda crags last year. I think there are at least two that aren't in the current guide. Definitely worth putting the one I went to in as it had a good mix of 5 to 7 grades. I should be there in the new year chris, I will pass info to you through Alan.

Cheers for that Mark, much appreciated,

Chris

Er..(cough)  that's not what you said when you did the Kaly guide, Alan.

As regards CB update. It is much needed and long overdue but please do it as two books, split by area. For anyone flying out the current guide represents about 5pc of their baggage allowance.

Hi Chris. I'm going to the costa blanca for the 4th time in 4 seasons in december, and we stay at the refugio at Guadalest every time. The crags surrounding the place have been massively developed by Miguel there, so that chapter needs updating, for sure!  (note: 70m rope pretty much essential now) (& helmet!)

Not 100% sure how much of a RockFax fan Miguel is, tho there's a battered copy of the 2013 RF guide in the refugio!  He always has topos in his place of the latest routes, & because we stay there & buy his food & beer etc., we obviously get free dibs at the info on the new lines..... 

Cheers Phil

Hey Phil, I'm heading to Guadalest tomorrow for the first time. When you say a 70m rope is needed, is that for routes that aren't in the 2013 Rockfax? My ropes only 60m, don't want to be caught short. 

Cheers for that. I think we worked with Miguel last time around - I will call in and see him,

Chris

Don’t recall mentioning secondary publishers in the Kaly guide hoo-ha. I think there could be some misunderstanding here.

We have 100 pages extra available, plus some rationalisation. For us, one book works much better so that is what we are currently aiming at, but if it completely balloons we may reconsider.

Alan

Hi Chris, I would argue in favour of dropping the Gandia area in your new guide. Firstly (as above) there's far too much south of this to fit into a single book. Secondly this area's technically on the Costa de Valencia and not in Costa Blanca (which is just Alicante Province)- although Roca Espana also ignored this with their guide. Thirdly it gives you the option of creating a Valencia Province guide in the future - which also has far more than you can possible fit into a single book

Unrelated to this when you publish a guide in Spain you also have a captive Spanish market (as there are no recent Spanish guides of the area). It makes good business sense to produce a second book for the Spanish market (or have some Spanish text in your guide) as you see in the Roca Verde guide. It's not difficult to translate text and it's a nice touch which will help sell your Rockfax books in Spain.

You guys should sell individual crag topos as PDF too. 

The Gandia area has some brilliant crags, and plenty of visitors stay in the Denia/Calp/Xalo region and it's easy access from those places. It's also only just north of the Costa Blanca boundary. A Valencia guide would be good as there's so much in the area, but I suppose that's a whole new project.

There has been so much development in recent years that even a selected guide could potentially grow to an unwieldy size very easily, such is the scale of available, bolted, and very good rock/crags.

Having a guide printed in Spanish, hmmm. In all the times I've been at crags over here and there's been Spanish climbers around (as is often), they aren't using guidebooks but know what they're climbing. There is lots of info available online in Castellano / Valenciano, even from the town halls, with topos, and these are free. Maybe rather than having the complete guide in Castellano, consider having a bilingual / multi-lingual guide as Roca Espana do. 

Hi Alan, It was just a mischievous aside. I know you were not talking about a secondary publisher of the same guide but you were producing a rival (and as I've said ad nausem IMO unnecessary second guide) but let's not get into all that again

The current CB guide is quite big enough as it is. If you are going to include all the many new crags plus developments on existing ones since the original came out it is going to have to be fitted with wheels. It's such a great and popular area that a stripped down part book/part app guide would feel a bit half-arsed to be honest. If you hived off the many Valencia/Gandia crags for a comprehensive separate volume it would be a great service to climbing and neatly fill the gap between the Lleida/Tarragona guides to the north and the CB to the south to cover enough cragging to keep most of us busy for the rest of our natural.

Hi - sorry I missed your reply before you left! We took a 60m the first time, & had to bail off a maillon or two on the awesome multi pitch routes up the main face, so I got a  70m rope for the next trip - much better. You'll still have plenty to go at there, but like us you may wish to take 70m for subsequent visits. 

Do say hi to Miguel, Marisol, the dogs and enjoy their paella - it's a must!!!!! WELL worth it for a treat    I'm staying there 15th December for 5 nights  

Chris C. - hope you get what you need from Miguel!  I will certainly be buying any new Costa Blanca RockFax (I've been buying them since about 1999), & if there is a split & a Valencia area one comes out too, I would be interested in exploring up there too . thanks. 

Phil

PS. my profile pic on here is on the multi pitch above the refugio at Guadalest, with Penya Maura in the background, happy days. 

Miguel really doesn't like you "sin casco" - ie. bring a lid!   (.... very wise words....).

I have climbed at "Tallat Roig" It's only 15 minutes up the road past gandia, it's a very good ,extensive, well bolted crag with a good range of grades in a beautiful location.

Rich is there alot guiding, I pop over ever second month! PS Its minus 14 outside at the moment please tell me why I am here in Bulgaria in the winter lol.

Sam Orange x

Did you use the UKC page for crag info?

Just looked at Tallat Roig on thecrag.com: 4 sectors and 135 routes

Correction: just found some topos - 8 sectors! Looks really good

It IS really good  I had some topos off the Web but it is now in the German Costa blanca North book 

http://www.climb-europe.com/rockclimbingshop/Roca-Espana-Costa-Blanca-North...

Alan 

As Sam O noted, there are new routes at Sella (was there 2 weeks ago, but we only did one of them - first left of Bolt Tax, was about 5+). Impact damage, blocks and debris lying on the ground around Zig Zag Atomico suggest some vigorous cleaning of the new lines above.

There's new-ish stuff at Murla too. Not a great crag but a great position.

For what it's worth, as someone who visits the area 2-3 times a year, I'd welcome some new crag coverage, esp single pitch stuff. Expanding north to Valencia sounds reasonable enough - Costa North/Valencia could work as a separate guide (per the German guide area), though obviously the further you get from Alicante airport the less useful it is for the one-off visitor.

It's an area with huge differences in quality of crags though. As has already been mentioned, some of the one-visit crags (Font d'Axia, et al) could be dropped to make way for new stuff.

Size issues? Not really impo imho. Hand luggage does the job on flights. And anyone who carries the current guide up a multipitch route is clearly outwith the realms of reason, so won't mind lugging an even bigger one.