UKC

Help out with a local kids sports club, roughly 20+ kids there, had to ask two of them to sit at the side due to foul language and fighting issues, as part of the communication update about the session, and what is coming up, the following was included 

"One thing to note is that there are a lot of boys present at training so time cannot be continually spent dealing with wayward individuals so boys will get a warning, a further warning, and then, lastly be asked to sit out the remainder of that evenings session- only fair on the remainder of the boys ."

The response was " Im not to sure 'wayward ' is a good professional terminology"

Well, what are we supposed to describe these little cherubs as then? Any ideas so I can correctly use the term the next time this issue arises?

In reply to subtle:

Maybe you should have asked him/her? It looks like it's their approval that is important. 

Personally I'd avoid labling individuals but concentrate on their actions at a young age. 

In reply to subtle:

Maybe you could identify the behaviour as troublesome rather than labelling the offenders as wayward or difficult. So you could say '... so time cannot be continually spent dealing with disruptive behaviour. This will result in a warning...'

In reply to subtle:

Childish behaviour? You don't want to use phrases that could be seen as a badge of honour among those kids who are just there to be disruptive. 

If in their presence use their names etc.. I bet they have fcukards for parents, so give them a chance. Using names politely is one step towards civilising them, don't drop to their level, bring them up to yours. (Easier said...)

In reply to subtle:

I think the onus is on the person who made that remark to provide the correct term. The fact that they 'think' it is incorrect suggests they don't know either. You 'help out' so can we assume you are a volunteer, is this other person a volunteer or paid staff? if the latter they need to have the answers/info on correct terms, codes of conduct (for staff, volunteers etc) to help support and provide guidance to volunteers, if the former then further training for volunteers to keep you right? 

As for a suggestion, 'disruptive elements/individuals' perhaps? 

In reply to subtle:

 

 

In reply to krikoman:

I was going to go for little sh*ts but yours works better.

In reply to JoshOvki:

“Scrotes” should cover it nicely.

In reply to subtle:

Another vote for 'little shits'.

Being slightly serious, is this a mixed sex group? If so I'd be a bit concerned about the fixation on 'boys'.

In reply to subtle:

Just emphasise it's a perfectly acceptable non-value-judgement expression said of people who prefer going/having their own way rather than obeying rules.  Often lands people in trouble, but not always.

Don't let the wordnazis remove our language

Are you being paid for this communication and voluntary duty - that is what "professional" implies

In reply to wercat:

Yes, if this was a parent complaint, and you are helping in a totally voluntary manner, then maybe hammer home this point home in your reply; you are not professional, then ask them to come up with a better phrase.

I think upordown has given you the answer though, label the behaviour, not the children.

 

In reply to Ridge:

No fixation on boys - its only boys present!

Voluntary helper with local sports team, the comment was a response from a parent.

Dictionary definition of wayward - difficult to control or predict because of wilful or perverse behaviour.

So the terminology used to describe the little bastards/shits/scrotes was correct then  

In reply to subtle:

 

Yes, but to be serious, the point about not labelling is a very good one, this might just be the place where the troublesome boys have as something they can / will / like being. It might be very difficult for them to suddenly switch learned behaviour, labelling them might just destroy any chance they have of feeling valued, when the don't elsewhere.

In reply to subtle:

Phrase it:

"... time cannot continually be spent with children who have below expected behaviour at the sessions. A child who behaves inappropriately will be warned twice and then be asked to sit out the activity for part or all of the session. Children who continually show behaviours below expectations may be required to leave the club."

 

Would be my way of doing it.

 

Also put the onus on the guardian/parent "we ask that you discuss with your child our acceptable behaviour policy, so that they understand what is allowed and what isn't"

 

ps; you might need to have an acceptable behaviour policy. 

In reply to subtle:

wayward

adjective

difficult to control or predict because of wilful or perverse behaviour.

"a wayward adolescent"

synonyms:wilful, self-willed, headstrong, stubborn, obstinate, obdurate, perverse, contrary, rebellious, defiant, uncooperative, refractory, recalcitrant, unruly, wild, ungovernable, unmanageable, unpredictable, capricious, whimsical, fickle, inconstant, changeable, erratic, intractable, difficult, impossible, intolerable, unbearable, fractious, disobedient, insubordinate, undisciplined; 

archaiccontumacious

"a wayward child"

 

Seems reasonable to me. Why don't you ask the objector(s) what they would prefer to see?

In reply to subtle:

You are supposed to describe them in the same way as the other kids; dont pull back from pointing out the poor behaviour - but play the ball, not the man. Dont forget also to praise them for exhibiting good behaviour (i.e. what you expect them / everybody to exhibit as the norm). They prob. wont have had positive reinforcement much at home, and it will be a pleasant surprise for them. Dont expect immediate results, your positive responses will be a bit of a novelty. 

Not all will respond at all, however; you will find that there are some who dont respond. They are the scrotes you can then boot out, having done your best.

 

In reply to subtle:

My sensible professional answer is as above mention the behaviour not the child. I'd also avoid any mention of why you can't deal with it or other children.  Positive wording works well.  

Stick to the basics

an expectation that all players will behave in an acceptable manner, for example using appropriate repectful language and keeping their hands and feet to themselves.  

My other answer is annoying little s*its.  Hope this helps.  

"little scamps" or "you rascals"

In reply to subtle:

I've changed it slightly, with this change you are dealing with the behaviour rather than making a direct judgement on the boy. 

 

In reply to Ian W:

Although beware disability considerations - before you sideline someone for disruptive behaviour (or indeed being a scrote) you should protect your position by making sure you know if the child or a parent has informed the organisation of a disability influencing their behaviour.   If this has happened you need to consider what “reasonable adjustments” to make.  It’s gnarly for behaviour as fairly accommodating a behaviour affecting disability, that you can’t tell the other children about due to privacy stuff, could undermine your ability to set a consistent level of expected behaviour to all children.

Once one person in the organisation is informed I believe the law considers everyone as having been informed.

Hopefullt the organisation has a policy on this and everyone knows about it.

In reply to subtle:

1.  Challenging behaviour is one term I've used to describe what they do.  You don't need to then have to place your interpretation of what label to use to describe the individual/s concerned.  "Little shits", "scrotes" and so on really says a lot about the person calling young people that sort of name too..  Name them if you have to.  You don't have to describe them.  I assume they have first names?

2.  I'd also suggest getting the other club members involved in setting rules, admonishments, punishments, bans and so on.  It is their club after all.  With some thought it is quite possible to involve the club members in also challenging the behaviour of those individuals who present 'challenging' behaviour.

3.  I learned the hard way that if people - adults and young people are not doing what you want then you need to do something different.  If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got - is that what you want?

 

In reply to subtle:

Disruptive individuals.

In reply to Billhook:

We all know that you are right, but after another evening giving up your time to spend 80% of your effort dealing with disruptive behaviour by the same kids (whilst those who toe the line stand idly by getting none of your attention) it's nice to come to a 'safe space' and vent a little.  

And since when did behaviour become red-underlined?  How should it be spelt oh internets?

In reply to subtle:

little conts.

In reply to subtle:

Naughty.

In reply to subtle:

Disruptive behaviour. 

In reply to wintertree:

I'd avoid any changes to the warnings and time out as it isn't reasonable to give different standards to different kids.

I'd go for telling parents that 2 warnings are provided as a reasonable adjustment.  I'd probably provide a physical distraction as well so ask the parents to provide a fidget toy.  I'd suggest giving any kid who is getting involved in arguments a job to do away from the others and praise them for doing it.  

In reply to subtle: agree with others that you should not label the kids but refer to/ describe the behaviour that is unacceptable. Once a kid is described as "wayward" or whatever it can become a label. Research shows that labelling is bad. Even in praise. If you are praised doing well because you are clever, you are less likely to succeed in future tasks than if you are praised as hard working, or with good reasoning etc, as it encourages a fixed mindset. 

Ps, unless your rules specifically state boys only I'd change it to children or participants, what would the group do if a girl asked to join?

 

In reply to subtle:

I've got it .

"One thing to note is that there are a lot of muppets present at training so time cannot be continually spent dealing with muppets, so muppetry will get a warning, a further warning, and then, lastly be asked to sit out the remainder of that evenings session- only fair on the remainder of the muppets ."

In reply to subtle:

Whatever you choose, don't be subtle about it.

In reply to subtle:

Many sports clubs have a code of conduct with sections for participants, parents and coaches/volunteers. Whatever you do should be lined up with this, if you have one and can also refer to it. 

In reply to subtle:

Sitting out the remainder of the evening session doesn't seem like much of deterrent - a nice rest after all that shouting and fighting. What about booting them out of the club?!

In reply to Ridge:

I'm confused, what else would you call male children? Apparently, something we share with primates is that girls/juvenile females sit and learn what's being shown to them, while boys/juvenile males play and become distracted by whatever else seems interesting. It strikes me that the school system doesn't account for this like it might do.