In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
> A hard 8c+ and a soft 9a will surely feel very similar in difficulty? Ben's a legend but does he understand grading.
Exactly right.
> Interesting comment from Ben. Has it been done by anyone except Steve, Ondra and Megos? Ondra mentioned the grade was stiff, but didn't mention 9a+ and he's not usually shy in this regard.
Indeed and then you have to wonder about Overshadow which seems a grade harder than those. Ondra did both Kilnsey routes (Northern Lights and North Star) really quickly but took maybe 7? days to do Overshadow. But then Alex Megos took longer to do Northern Lights than he typically does on many euro 9a+'s. But he didn't suggest an upgrade.
> Harder to tick than some other 9a because it's always wet. If it was in condition more often, Ben would surely have done it already. But interesting he considers it's worth a plus.
I think he's had plenty of dry days on it though, far more than he spent on Rainshadow.
I seem to recall that North Star was the route that Steve thought could be 9a+. Still a bit of an unknown quantity. I don't think anyone has tried it since Ondra's quick second ascent many years ago.
> > Mutation
> Unrepeated in 20 years, hard to believe. I think even Steve suggested it might be 9a+ and he's pretty conservative in his grading. I'd expect it to get an upgrade at some point.
I understand that when Steve first did it he didn't really know what 9a or 9a+ was so just graded it 9a as it was harder than what he'd done before. I believe Alex Megos who tried it for a second time recently (albeit briefly) was suggesting 9a+. Both he and Will Bosi did Evolution with ease (3rd tries) yet still haven't done Mutation.
Will's comment earlier this year show's how hard it must be:
"Finally the redpointing journey has begun for Mutation. This route is the hardest one I’ve ever worked on, taking three sessions just to figured out the crux. "
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiNK9-TjBNy/
Fantastic effort by Steve all those years ago.