UKC

I have seen this pop up a couple of times for rope queries, and have a couple of questions on best practice I guess.

I have a 70m rope (10mm) that I use for sport climbing, if I were to use this for trad and doubled it up, would it be best to tie in both ends into the leader and put an 8 on a bight and a locker to the second? or vice versa?

Secondly, being a single rated rope, how would this effect the leader if they were to take a fall? or would it be much the same as used conventionally? 

I think its marginally better that the leader ties in to both ends as its easier to mitigate twists. For the second tie in I normally either use two lockers back to back on to figure of eight on a bight or I actually tie in as normal using a re threaded figure of 8 but just use the two strands as if it was one.

The main difference you're likely to notice is the extra weight. In general the max force spec on either rope will be roughly the same, the reason the half rope spec looks lower is mostly because the weight difference in the two drop tests. On less dynamic single ropes you may find the max force the rope can exert on the climber could be a bit high for factor two falls when using it doubled..

Ofcourse a lot of trad climbs can just be done on a single strand single rope. Just take more slings / sling draws to extend the pro more.

Thank you, very helpful!

I've done this by tying into the middle using a bowline with a bight (not a bowline on a bight). Any kinks work themselves out on the ends before the second ties in. It's certainly heavier than using half ropes.

The effect on a leader fall is no different than using the rope as a single rope - provided you are not clipping both strands in the same piece.

Surely the least bulky and least faffy option in this situation is to deploy the Chris Tan Death Knot.

Personally I would lead on both ends of the single and the second would use the CTDK.

If you haven't come accross the CTDK before:

https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.437360399631171.88685674.1000007164...

Other Chris Tan death products can be found here:

http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/index.htm

Think that's called a death knot for a reason!! 

I would use the version of it advocated by Kirkpatrick and Coley in High: Advanced Multipitch Climbing. Basically a bowline on the bight with a similar step through, video of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIP4IUnqvI&feature=player_embedded 

I actually tie into the middle for this reason.  The second only needs to tie in once you have finished and all the twists in the rope can work themselves out.  If you tie onto both ends, any twist in the rope can't work themselves out of it.  Ultimately, I don't think it matters that much.

Personally I'd just use it as a single and employ slings to extend, much less faff. 

Unless of course you attempt one of those many climbs in the UK that go left, right, back left, then right again etc. etc. and are IMO some of the better climbs that the UK has to offer.  I can't imagine climbing Right Wall, for example, on a single rope. If you extended the runners you would seriously risk decking out.

Al

Often use a half rope doubled up for short single pitch trad. 

Leader ties into both ends for two reasons.

If the belay is well back, can use either end to belay points, assymetrically if required. Can also drop one rope to tie back to remote anchor.

There is no need for the second to tie in or use stopper knots to prevent the leader running off the end of the rope if a fall occurs well up the pitch as the middle of the rope cannot pass the belay plate. Second should tie in before taking off belay plate

I always flake out the rope before climbing and coil up double, so rope kinks are rarely a problem.

Similar to what Rick says above- tie into both ends. 70m split only gives a 35m pitch, so if you are short of the belay you can untie one end if needs be and still be on belay.

O fer god sakes.  Buy a proper pair of half ropes and be done with it.

Hard to believe for those of you over the other side of the pond, but over here we climb on 10 metre lumps of rock we call cliffs.

Yeah, I know, just being a grouch.

No one in the world does better by their small crags than the UK.  Only wish we could import some of your attitudes.

In what way? Calling them routes and not boulder problems? Or just happily climbing on little cliffs?

My sense is that UK climbers have managed to hold to a much brighter line between sport and trad climbing, with the result that there are lots of short climbs that offer formidable adventures, rather than simply technical puzzles, many easily forgotten once solved, with some bolts for pro.  The fact that your huge collection of gritstone climbing is virtually (or is it totally?) free of fixed protection is an astonishing feat of preservation for which there is nothing comparable in the US.

The US seems more and more to be developing a "community prerogative" approach, in which a climb is wasted or a "museum piece" if it can't be attempted by a broad spectrum of climbers.  Perhaps your E-system, which manages to enshrine the spectrum of challenges better than a difficulty grade and a protection rating, has helped in this regard.

Not to say you don't have issues yourselves---I've seen and even commented on some here---but I don't think there is any comparison to what i see as the degradation the US has experienced.