UKC

Are they worth it? I usually buy budget tyres, they do the job. But I'm considering splashing out on winter tyres this year. What mileage do they give?

I think they are, at least if you'll be driving in the Highlands in the witer a bit.

Obviously you'll probably get away fine without them, but they undoubtedly do grip much better on ice, compacted snow and slush, and should grip better even just on cool wet roads (though I'm not sure I've noticed the difference on that last one).

I don't measure MPG really, but mine don't seem to make a huge difference.

My last two sets have been Michelin CrossClimates, though - not strictly winter tyres but 4 season ones. They seem almost as good as full winter tyres on wintry stuff, and have the advantage that you don't have to change them off for the rest of the year.

I think so, especially if you do stuff and what to get places in the winter (snow). They are invaluable up here in the Highlands... but I did find them very useful in the Lakes getting over the passes and into the Western valleys in winter. I've changed from having a dedicated summer and winter set to just  4 season tyres which were winter rated and to be honest they still wok well and are cheaper and less faff than having 2 sets if you have to pay for them to be swapped over twice a year as I did. 

Yes. No need to spend loads, I purchased used budget ones for my Yeti.  Difference was massive.  I used them from Sept to April regardless of snow or not (wet weather handling was massively improved) and had 3 seasons out of them, about 25k in total with only marginal wear.

Think they were nexus or nekus branded (Chinese). 

I just bought Continental Winter tyres for my Ducato Maxi

This will be the first winter on winter tyres. I bought them as we have moved from London to the Peak, and we live on a steep hill! 

Thumbs up for winter tyres. What kinda mileage do they give? 

Not sure, but the better ones tend to have a better fuel economy rating

I intend to swap back to summers in the Spring

I quite like Sheffield when it snows, with it's steep hills everything grinds to a halt. I'm not sure why I like that, but I do.

Earlier this year when it snowed and I couldn't work,  me and the missus ènjoyed being stuck at home for a week.

Don't tell anyone at work you have winter tyres. Best of both worlds then. 

Otherwise you'll end up going to work to find that someone who lives 500m away and could have easily walked isn't in. 

If you mean milage in terms of mpg then I've not noticed any difference in the past, but then I've never had them on a car that does any more than 30mpg so if you've got a more efficient modern car you might notice a drop. If you mean how many miles do you get from them then it varies but as a general rule if you go for around 8mm of tread then they'll last a little longer than decent branded summer tyres if you run them all year and much longer if you only run them in winter when it's cold. I got just shy of 20k out of a set of cooper weather master st2's on a heavyish 4x4 estate, but then once they got to about 3mm I ran them down in the summer as they lose most of their ability in snow once the bulk of the tread is gone. I think they were about £90 and probably the best tyre I've had on a car. I also just run cheapie all seasons now with 8mm tread because I don't use the car often, they seem to have lasted well and they haven't lost any tread or worn down at all in about 4-5k miles. The trouble with summer tyres is they've only got enough tread to last a few thousand miles before they're starting to get sketchy in the wet so they don't last nearly as well and very few have a tread pattern suited to rural driving.

I've been running 2 sets of wheels for both cars for a good long time now.

If you have the money up front and space to store the wheels it's pretty cost effective. I've bought secondhand wheels with summer tyres on them (once), ran a few mm off the summer tyres that were on them then put winters on... I think the summer tread paid for the wheels to be honest. Then on that car (big heavy estate) the winters gave similar mpg and lasted longer than the summers, even being brutal about not keeping the winters 'too long' (i.e. changing them with more tread on than I would on summers) - you can also wear out a bit through the summer once you decide they are finished with for winter... I then sold the spare wheels and tyres to the guy that bought the car for about what I paid for the wheels 7 years earlier....

On a smaller golf that doesn't eat tyres at all, I did similar but as it was nearly new when bought, I bought nearly new wheels with brand new tyres on from somebody who was upgrading their new golf... paid the equiv of a new set of tyres and got brand new alloys attached. Then got 5 years at about 5k per year out of first set of winter tyres and only changed to a new set of winter as it made sense that I get 3 or 4 good years out of the next set rather than wearing the first set to a nubbin, getting new winters but only having the car a year or two from that point if I had waited.

Newest car (big estate again)  I bought aftermarket alloys and put winters on those. In general very good, well rated winter tyres seem to come cheaper than the summer ones that I tend to fit so the winter mileage saves expensive summer tyre wear. Look at blackcircles or mytyres.net for good deals and very wide choice.

All round, very cost effective and I would recommend this route if possible. Ball ache swapping 2 cars twice per year but still.... (get a trolley jack if you don't already) . If I didn't have storage I'd probably go crossclimate these days as they are probably as near good enough for both summer and winter as most folks need 95% of time.

Depends what you mean by worth it. If by getting across Rannoch Mor in a RWD car to drop someone off at the airport on time, driving past about 100 stuck cars (after pushing about 20 up a gentle slope to clear part of the road to let the plough through), then yes. My car just worked, whereas other cars had no chance. There were too many stuck with summer tyres on for it to just be the drivers' ability.

If you mean for safety on cold, wet (non-snowy) roads, then yes there's a significant difference. On warm, wet roads the difference is still significant, but not in your favour.

If you mean for driving on sheet ice, there's next to no difference - it's still slippery.

If you mean financially, that's up to you. I picked up used tyres on rims for £100, with around 6mm tread depth left. For me that's definitely worth it.

In terms of MPG I see no difference between summer and winter tyres.

If I lived in the south I wouldn't bother. Midlands, yes, but only if I wanted to drive in the snow to get somewhere. Further north, yes.

Mine went on last month. They'll stay on until around March probably. Over that time my summer tyres are not being used, so it all balances out.

I'm seriously considering giving them a try this year - I will need 2 new front tyres soon anyway and the Falken ones on there are pretty skittish in the cold and wet.

Are you implying here that winter tyres are actually disadvantageous in warm, wet conditions?

Yes. The stopping distance of winter tyres will usually exceed that of 'summer' tyres in warm conditions. Warm and wet makes mine quite exciting - depends how you drive I guess. Even if you don't notice a difference because of your driving style, be aware that there is. But by then you'd put your summer tyres back on anyway. I get caught out when putting winter tyres on too early.

First hit:

https://www.uniroyal-tyres.com/car/tyre-guide/winter-care/winter-tyres-in-s...

I can't see the point for lowland British use, we get a handful of snow days a year and our roads drain well, slowing down for the conditions works fine. Then again, if I had to deal with regular snow and or snowy slopes I'd probably get suitable tyres and a car with a limited slip diff.

jk

They improve handling and wet braking below 7 degrees, Which is a common temperature in lowland Britain. 

But I have no problem with handling or braking when it's cold or wet, if I did I'd slow down until I didn't.

jk

You don't always get a choice. Things happen on roads which are outside of our control and we need to react more quickly. So having a tyre which grips better and stops more quickly makes sense to me

Does that mean that you have to look at the thermometer and change your tyres accordingly and perhaps even do so on a daily basis?
As JK says, in most parts of the UK, 'normal' tyres are more than sufficient. 

For reasons which are too complicated to go in to right now, I ran my Nokian winter tyres right through spring and summer 2017 and noticed no discernible difference vs the 'summer' tyres.  Mind you, the summer tyres (which were the Dunlop OEM ones which came with the car) never impressed me that much anyway - certainly not compared to Michelins I'd run on previous cars.

The winters even passed a pretty stiff brake test in August of that summer, when the driver of a car I was following along the A82 towards Tyndrum suddenly realised that he was about to pass the camp site he wanted to get to and performed a hail mary 90° turn off the tarmac on to a gravel track with no warning or indication.

So while it's undoubtedly true that the extremities of the performance envelope are going to be different between summer and winter tyres, for 99.9% of driving on public roads no-one is ever going to explore those outer reaches.  You're not inevitably destined to die horribly in a ditch just because you keep your winter tyres on through a British summer.

Bear in mind as well that winter tyres are entirely road legal at all times of year.  (In the UK at least.  I know that the Uniroyal article you linked says "Swapping tyres every six months or so can be costly but, in many countries, it’s compulsory," but I suspect that they're referring to the requirement in many continental countries or regions to run winter tyres in winter.  I'm not aware of any national or regional regulation which requires you to take your winters off in summer - which doesn't, of course, mean that no such regulation exists.)

And, of course, many people (including me these days) run all season tyres which meet the 3PMSF winter standard but which are explicitly designed to be used all through the year.  And indeed Uniroyal themselves offer such a tyre...

I've always got the choice to slow down. There are a hundred and one things we can change to make driving safer, swapping perfectly adequate grooved tyres for fractionally better under some conditions grooved tyres is not high on my list of priorities given I'm quite happy with how safe my road use is whether it's dry, wet or snowing. Actually I haven't tried the latest barge in the snow yet, I suspect it'll be another real handful but as usual I'll find a speed where I can cope on the odd days it settles.

jk

Just don't skid into me due to lack of grip and I won't care what tyres you are running!

I have never found winter tyres to be worse than summer ones in summer, but I do find them significantly better in winter 

The biggest issue is actually temperature. The temperature normally seen as the threshold is 7C. Winter and 4-season tyres are of a different set of compounds and have a tread pattern with more sipes (small slits that kind of pump water off the surface). Sipes help in the wet and also starting off on pure ice. There is more hysteresis loss with these features so there is often a poorer economy rating. Out and out winter tyres, often by our northern neighbours, can be more orientated towards constant snow and ice and be poor in the wet. 

So if much of your winter is below 7C and icy or lots of snow then maybe you need a serious look at a winter or 4-season tyre. 

Getting through some snow for 300m to the end of the road three mornings a year is a job for chains or socks.

In Finland there is, because most people still used studded tyres in winter. You can get out of the fine, friends have found, by showing a car full of ski touring gear and pics from a still snowy Norwegian Arctic! From memory, I think it's April when they have to be off in the south.

To jkarran - you may well get performance you consider acceptable, but below seven you can get better performance in turning and stopping.  Well demonstrated in testing.

But it's your choice to drive a barge that's a real handful in the snow, so enjoy.

Interesting experience, and worth noting.

Totally disagree. It doesn't have to be intentional, and plenty of people do unintentionally explore those outer reaches of tyre performance.

I recently did a limit handling refresher day on track. I finished off a set of Bridgestone runflats on a dry sunny day which was fun, around 12 degrees and a blue sky. To get me home I put my winter wheels on. Before heading off we went out for a few more laps on the winters to see the difference. On the dry sunny track the total available grip was significantly reduced (in the context of driving at the limit) in all situations. The 'squirminess' (sidewall flex, compound change, block deformation) was noticably increased. Overall we were both impressed, they performed well. They did wear a lot faster than the summer tyres though, hence just a few laps. On the road this change wouldn't be noticable under those warm and dry conditions for most people.

Contrast that with those same tyres on on a warm damp day a few days later. Probably around 10 degrees, and damp (no standing water). Very slippery compared to the summer tyres, and this is true every warm damp day I drive in. Take the temperature down to below around 5 degrees and they're superb - better than summer tyres. It's a bit of road I drive often, there's no oil, it is purely a function of temperature/damp. Just based on that extra grip below 5 degrees they're worth it, for me. The ability to drive more safely in the snow is a bonus. Of course, up to you.

If budget was the limiting factor I'd suggest one set of top end 'summer' tyres for the whole year. They would probably be better than cheap winter tyres in the winter, and better than most summer tyres in the warmer months.

Barum Polaris and Sava Eskymo gave me more than 30 000 miles here in Czechia and they are just middle class (both are excellent on snow)

Winters here are a little colder and it can affect the tire life

Winter tires are mandatory in some continental countries (like here, or in Austria, Slovakia, Poland or some parts of Germany) so think about it if you want to drive somewhere abroad

I'm running 4 snow tyres on my Audi A6 Quattro Avant this Winter. Last Winter I was running Summer tyres and, despite the 4wd, had a couple of scary moments in the snow. I'll be interested to see if there's a very noticeable difference when it does snow. The tyres were put on the car in October. First journey we did was a trip to London for a week with temperatures of 25 degrees c- probably not the optimal running temp for these! I've noticed fuel economy has dropped off a bit but not massively.

If you’re asking how long winter tyres last.

i have a BMW 3 which is very hard on tyres. When I got it I bought a set of extra wheels with winter Goodyear’s on them, that was 4 years ago and the winter set have done about 4 months a year since then. 16 months at 15000 per year likely means they have covered 20000 miles and they look less than half worn. So, in cooler weather at least, they seem to be lasting much better than the Continentals I use the rest of the year. (Admittedly I’m a bit heavier footed on the “summer” rubber as the car feels a tad baggy on the winters)

mpg - can’t detect any difference in fuel cost and my habit is always to brim the tank and calculate my mileage.(always north of 50mpg)

But in the kind of winters we seem to get now, I wouldn’t be without them.

I lived on Finland for many years so got used to winters driving on studded tyres and changing wheel sets twice a year. For the first three winters back in the UK I just had the normal summer tyres on the car, there wasn't too much snow but it was pretty terrifying when there was, particularly living halfway up a steep hill in a hilly city - Sheffield.

Last winter I got Michelin Cross Climate plus put on the front of my (front wheel drive) car and was amazed at how good they were. I did a lot of winter climbing last winter plus we had winter on ground here for more time than normal. During the Beast from East I was driving up hills with little effort that proper 4WD trucks and SUVs were failing on (makes you feel pretty smug!). I'm thinking I'll cough up for another pair this winter, although just having them on the front last winter didn't seem a problem.

They are sold as "all season" and I've used them on the car all year with seemingly no problems. We drove from Derbyshire to Finland (and back) in the north European heat wave of July/August, and they did fine!

That's interesting reading. I was about to respond to your previous comment by adding another +1 to the posters that have mentioned they've had no issues running winters in summer. I think people's varying experiences reflect the variety between tyres, roads, conditions and driving styles and there's probably not a difinitive answer other than winter tyres work better in winter and summer tyres sometimes work better in summer. I run a set of AT's on my main vehicle and either winter tyres or all seasons on the cars all year, I have never noticed anything other than an improvement on summer tyres with any of them (especially in wet standing water at all times of year) and I hate having to drive a car with slicks on now. From what you say however, it sounds like if I took a set of winter tyres to the limits on a decent tarmac road on a warm damp day they would perform less well than a summer tyre. This is a specific condition though and quite often in the summer the roads are either saturated and half flooded or mostly dry, in the former case I'd rather have a deep tread that displaces water well in the latter more favourable conditions the dangers of getting into a slip in the first place are much less regardless of what you have on your wheels.

There's a lot of variation with summer tyres as well and some are really awful in almost all conditions. When I was a kid it wasn't unusual to see normal non winter tyres with a decent horizontal tread pattern on them. The fashion for low profile, low depth tread patterns is useless at displacing water on the road and if you want to drive into a car boot sale or park in a non-tarmac car park then forget it - it only takes a bit of morning dew for us to have to spend the morning unsticking city cars from the campsite at work. They just have no hope at all unless it's dry.  I think the roads you drive on make a big difference as well and there's probably a bit of a north south divide, if you're driving a along a poorly maintained road with loose gravel, deep puddles, pot holes and standing water then I think whatever the temperature most summer tyres would not fare as well as almost anything with a decent horizontal tread pattern, winter tyres included.

TobyA - be careful with having winter tyres on the front only. They will get you up a hill but they will also give you a false sense of security on the road until your back end whips out. I'm not saying it's guaranteed if you're driving carefully anyway but that's the reason people advise putting winters on the back if you're only buying two.

Couldn't that be because, you will be almost guaranteed to use the benefits of the winter tyre in winter, but the only time that you would need the benefits of a summer tyre in warmer conditions is when you need them most e.g. under hard braking, etc. and that is something that you rarely, if ever do? 

I've heard that, seen the video, etc etc. but actually I was amazed last winter how little of an issue it was. At the end of the winter (April actually!) heading to the Lakes for the last winter route of the season, we were driving on an empty and snow covered A66. On one of the straight dual carriage way bits I decided to test the tires at higher speed hard stop, there was a distinct twitch at the back end, braking pretty hard from about 45 mph which caused a few nervous giggles, but it was ok. Every other time, including coming down steep hills on iced roads and snow covered roads I don't even remember the back trying to fish tail.

I've driven a lot on snow and ice after living in Finland for well over a decade, on winter tires in all different types of condition, so I might panic a bit less than the average British driver in the snow. But I also think there's a lot of bollocks spoken about it by people who fancy themselves as the classic (and self appointed) "expert driver". Driving in snow with "normal" tires is just a nightmare. You can try and be super careful, but when you can't get up a hill due to lack of grip, there aren't that many tricks you can learn to help. But get some all-season tires, carry on driving sensibly - and I at least was amazed at how good they are.

All season tyres are excellent in the snow. Last winter driving uphill in a mixture of fresh deep snow and compacted snow the four wheel drive never cut in and was basically redundant. I will not bother with four wheel drive on my next car. Its only necessary if you go off road.

Ah that's interesting to hear from someone whose actually used them only on the front, I've just taken the traditional gospel that it's a no no for granted. You learn something every day

When I researched this, when pondering to buy a new Tiguan, with a winter Alps trip in the offing,  I was considering the choice between 2WD and 4WD, and many people who know about tyres have told me that in winter, especially in snow, winter tyres on my 2WD are better than summer tyres on a 4WD.

And after the trip, I was in agreement.

theres a video on youtube of a 2wd vs 4wd test - they use Skoda Yetis', one 4wd with summer tyres, and one 2wd with winter tyres, on a winter test curcuit somewhere cold and snowy.

the results, for the bloke driving the 4wd with summer tyres, were scary. for the bloke driving the 2wd with winter tyres, it looked all rather comforting...

Presumably 4wd with winter tyres is even better

Yeah, I get the theory and a mate shared this video recently on FB youtube.com/watch?v=A5aMnmekA38& but after last winter I just didn't find it an issue. I have no doubt that four all season tires is going to be better than just two, but just the two were such a massive improvement on summer tires in the snow (and on ice), I wonder by how much? The video is actually really interesting - I don't know how he gets the car to skid that much. I've driven on ice roads a bit (in Finland once the lake and sometimes sea ice is thick enough they open roads where ferries go in the summer) and didn't skid like that. I guess that with studded tires though and following routes where lots of other people have driven with studs, roughing up the surface the ice isn't that slippy? But to do full handbrake turns and the like (yeah, I know - childish, although I always justified it to myself by calling it "practice". Finns have to do part of their test on a skid pan, I never got chance to do that), in empty IKEA car parks and the like with a fresh fall of snow on the ground it still wasn't as easy to get the car to skid as he makes it in the video.

Totally agree. Some years back when I was still living in Finland, I was over in the UK at Christmas and there was a big freeze here. I borrowed my dad's Freelander and drove up to Cumbria from Worcestershire to climb Cautley Spout. Very early morning driving in fresh snow through Worcestershire then up through Birmingham I remember thinking even in a land rover (but with summer tires), it was a total 'mare compared to my 2WD Focus at home in Finland with proper winter tires!

I have had winter tyres on all year (I can't be arsed changing them)

I measure them frequently and have noticed no significant wear over the year.  They handle well on cold wet roads (normal UK autumn and winter conditions) but are they significantly better than the 15 years on normal tyres probably not in my opinion.  Just slow down.

I got mine part worn from my local garage who bought them in Germany they were like new when he put them on my car. He charged me £36 a tyre for Michelin Alpin something or other need to check if they either 5 or 6's as can't remember.

My experience is that winter tyres are vastly inferior in wet conditions to the point I think they are, overall, more dangerous than normal tyres in the UK. Most insurance companies charge for the declaration you have then too.

So do us a favour after reading this and summarise your thoughts on

will you go winters/4 season brand etc

where you drive

dates and length of use

what you think you will find/achieve.

Brand choice.

my insurance company neither charged me for telling them or charged me more for my insurance - infact they told me that they were no more interested in what tyres i put on the car than in what kind of radio station i listened to.

my experience of winter tyres - both 'proper' winter tyres and Michelin Cross Climate all season tyres is that they function about the same as summer tyres in the summer, and vastly better than summer tyres from late autumn onwards. in actual snow/ice the difference is like chalk and cheese, but even on the more boring cold, wet road the grip they have compared to the summer tyres - and i use Michelin, uniroyal, goodyear etc.. - is very noticable.

i do about 25k miles a year, live in rural midlandshire and drive all over the UK on everything from motorways to tiny welsh mountain roads via the A9. my current tyres are Pirelli SottoZero 3's - i got 4x 215/55/16's from MyTyres' eBay site for £316.

the full winter tyres do wear out much more quickly if you keep them on over the summer - mid April and November seems about right for the swap over.

I really don't know, I've only started looking into winter tyres and TBH I'm not sure if I'm much the wiser after reading this thread. Lots of different opinions and experiences, although the general point of winter tyres probably being better in winter than non winter tyres seems to stand, surprise surprise. 

I like the idea of 4 season tyres as a compromise. I have no experience of these but most people seemed to think that wear was good ish 9good longevity) obviously over winter; theres not much difference in fuel consumption. They make a big difference in snow. In mid wales I count for two weeks bad weather then two weeks good for the next two months. so I could see the benefit. Finally price..  Avez vous plus moin cher.. cheap counts for me! any recommendations out there for a Subaru Outback 2006?

That insurance thing sounds like bs, but certainly have a crash in Norway on the wrong tyres and you can expect them to be very interested in your claim

I put a set of part-used winter tyres on my 2001 Yaris last year, and they made a massive difference to being able to get around the Peak and west Sheffield in the worst of last year's weather.  Like Toby A, I took particular pleasure in driving past stranded shiny 4x4s in it.  In fact, our other car is a 4x4 - Subaru Outback - but I was more comfortable in the snow in the Yaris with winter tyres than in the Subaru.

 I didn't bother to take the winter tyres off the Yaris for the summer, and it was fine.  I can believe that their performance in tropical rain is a bit worse than summer tyres, but the Yaris is not, shall we say, a performance vehicle, so I don't think I get very close to the limit, and I didn't notice any issue.  Fuel economy not noticeably worse (again, I can make a big difference on that with driving style so I suspect the tyres aren't really the controlling factor).  Maybe a bit more road noise.

On the basis of that experience, I've just put winter tyres on the Subaru.  This will probably ensure no snow at all this winter.

I ran cooper weather master st2's on the outback and then a pair of cheapie all seasons once they got to about 3mm when it stopped being driven so much. Best tyres I've owned and I think the wet weather handling thing must vary a lot between tyres because they were virtually impossible to aquaplane. The st2's have a more traditional tread pattern, quite deep channels and plenty sipes and they work nicely on trails as well.

I have a front wheel drive car and have two winter tyres up front. Yes, they are worth it.

One problem with individual anecdotes is that there are huge variations in the performance of winter and summer tyres between models / brands, so it is difficult to extrapolate.

A few years ago a number of us were snowed in at a hut. Several had 4WD. I was the only one with winter tyres (on a Forrester) and was the only car able to make it up the track. The comparison tests on stopping are impressive. I don't think they make a big hit in terms of mileage.

When it snows I'm frequently the only person to make it into work for a few hours (though that might be Subaru vs BMW rather than winter tyres). (I can get along some back road with steep hills to avoid the gridlock...)

(and I've replaced my spacesaving spare with a proper wheel, which I'll keep round the year, as it can't be worse than the narrow spare)

I’ve driven a lot in Norway (and Sweden). Driving in Scandinavia is nothing like the UK. If you hit standing water at 70mph on a UK motorway in winter tyres you WILL aquaplane. There’s a reason you’re not allowed to go that fast in those countries and it’s not just moose. Re insurance I have been charged by RAC, Direct Line and Privilege for converting to winter tyres (RAC wanted £100, rest were just admin charges).

Many motorways are 120kph, most are 110. 

Motorways and major A type roads have deer fences at the side. You'll normally get a sign telling you if it is damaged and an animal is more likely to get through. Still a slight risk in a big snow year as the ground level is raised. 

BS. 

Edit - Sorry, that's unfair. Can you define 'aquaplane'? 

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. 

If winter tyres are so good in the wet and the cold why do we not have them all year?

Because the compound is not as good in non-cold weather. 

Like 80% of a UK winter?

That in all three Scandinavian countries you can do over 70mph and on the fastest roads wild life is less of a risk.

 the rubber is formulated to work best at cooler temps. I know people who do use them into summer if their unstudded tyres have just few mm left. Then they'll swap and get new winter tyres in the autumn. 

Yes I can. It’s when traction between the tyre and the road is lost due to water. Having driven 65 miles each way from darkest Derbyshire to Birmingham for the last decade I can assure you it doesn’t happen often with normal tyres. On winter tyres (of many types) I had to slow by 20mph if the rain was heavy. 

I’m not sure if you have an axe to grind or shares in a winter tyre company but I’m surprised by the antagonism. 

6-8c is considered the threshold, so it does not have to be sub zero for improved performance. 

Winter tyres in the summer - they're a bit soft, but if you drive in the mountains in summer then cross climates are a good compromise

Re. Insurance companies I have no idea - that seems very strange

I slow down for standing water no matter which tyres I have on. I have only once aquaplaned and that was with summer tyres. 

Winter tyres definitely grip better on wet roads in UK winter. I have on occasion left them on year round and not really noticed a difference (to be fair, Scottish summer temps aren't known for being particularly high most years!). I don't drive my own vehicle so much in summer, so a little less to compare them to.

Not much to add to the thread other than my experience. I’m not evangelical about winter tyres. I think they’re inferior unless it’s freezing and/or there’s snow. I’ve used them in Norway, Sweden and Germany; I will not use them in England.

I lived in Finland for 16 years and owned a car for 13 of them. You are legally required to have winter tyres on for about 4 months, and the roads can be very wet during the winter months, not just in spring. I've got no idea what you mean that about winter tyres aquaplaning, and have never heard it discussed in Finland as an issue.

As I said, I’m only passing on experience. It might be a little disingenuous to compare pootling around well-maintained Finnish roads to the race track of the British motorway.

Seems at odds with what they have told the ABI https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/sitecore/files/documents/publications/p...

British motorways are not very extreme 

It is quite a bizarre statement to say that winter tyres are worse at aquaplaning so despite the odd evangelical winter tyre aficionado a little backlash from that kind of thing should probably have been expected. Winter tyres are not snow tyres, the bulk of those sold in the uk are much more optimised to wet weather and above freezing temperature conditions. Some are appaling in snow and I imagine some cheap tyres branded as winters are as poor in the wet as some summer tyres are in the dry. You do get rubbish versions of everything but winter tyres are designed to reduce aquaplaning. It's a bit like slipping in a pair of trail running shoes then saying you now only wear leather soled brogues in the hills because trail running shoes are too slippy. I've failed to make the tyres I mentioned earlier aquaplane ever, where as my all seasons still do it at higher speeds and as for jumping in my bosses car with summer tyres on it's lethal in the wet. There are large variations between brands and models of tyres but generally a deeper tread, a smaller proportion of contact rubber to channels and more aggressive directional grooves are features of winter tyres which help dispel water quicker, writing off a type of tyre that is specifically designed to shed water better because you had a bad experience with some is a little odd. If you genuinely couldn't go more than 20mph on the motorway without aquaplaning then the only explanation I can think of is that they were asymmetrical tyres and your garage put them on the wrong way round. Either that or you drive a car that weighs 100kg. Even aquaplaning at 30mph would be an incredible achievement, normally a car needs to be travelling over 40 or 50mph to aquaplane. As wbo says, British motorways are far from extreme environments for a tyre and there are plenty winter tyres out there which are perfect for use in this country.

The organisation that test and certifies tyres (GTÜ) says winter tyres are less likely to aquaplane (summer or winter) due to the larger grooves between the blocks that are specified by the European Directive until the tread depth is under 4mm. Winter tyres in the summer however have poorer cornering and braking due to the tread block instability.

"Good" all year tyres are kinda acceptable, my wife has them on her 4WD Subaru but then she drives like a snail and it´s completely flat on her route. I run winter/summer as appropriate as my route is hilly and I drive faster! Merry Xmas from Bavaria

Ben, I wonder did you misread Toccata's comment "...I had to slow by 20mph.." as "...I had to slow to 20mph..."?

I have just changed Avon Ice Touring to Vredestein Wintrac Pros - 225/55/17.  Looking at the 2018 Autobild test for these tyres, in a group test, against a summer reference point gives a good sense to what to expect from winter tyres - and reflects my own personal experience of using winter tyres for many years.  Wet braking is negatively impacted though handling is improved depending on the tyre.  All the tyres tested aquaplaned at a slower speed than the summer reference tyre but, apart from a cheap make, at no more than 5 or 6mph slower.

Economy wise, it seems to me that there are quite a few factors that impact on mpg - wet roads, head wind, traffic characteristics, fuel (if diesel), load, tyre pressures etc. that it is very difficult to pinpoint decreased economy due specifically to the tread pattern/compounds of winter tyres.  Last Wednesday I had a relaxed drive from Edinburgh up to Cairngorm and back - dry roads, not much traffic, very little wind, light load, cruise control sitting at 62mph - 60mpg in a large 2L Turbo Diesel estate.

The big negative with winter tyres, from a performance in snow perspective, is that this can decrease signicantly with wear.  5mm of tread will not perform in the snow the way a brand new tyre will.  There is no shortage (at least in Scotland) of people selling secondhand winter tyres on, for example Gumtree.  Many sell because they change cars and their stored winter tyres are the wrong size - great if the tyres have only done a few thousand miles.  However there are plenty being sold with 4 or 5mm of tread - these are a waste of money.

I recently bought an old audi tt, when i got it i fitted some adjustable rear control arms and then took it to have the wheels aligned. The guy at the tyre place said you do realise you have winter tyres on the rear of the car and summer on the front, i didn't so asked him to change the fronts to winters too. Now i want it to snow so i can test them, with four wheel drive as well it should be pretty good.

Ha ha! I take it you haven't driven in Finland much!

Winter tyres make an enormous difference in winter conditions. They allow one to drive moderately safely in snow and ice conditions when one wouldn't be able to drive at all on summer tyres. Contrary to some of the comments on this forum, winter tyres do grip on ice, whereas summer tyres do not. This is because they have different glass transition temperatures. (The glass transition temperature of summer tyres is about 7C.) This is why winter tyres are compulsory in all countries or states that have winter conditions.

I have not been able to detect any substantial difference in performance between the tyres in non-winter conditions, nor any significant difference in mpg with these tyres on my VW Golf (I get 65 to 70 mpg on both sets of tyres). I have now had a one set of summer tyres and one set of winter tyres for eight years on two different VW Golfs and amazingly I can see hardly any wear on either set! One hidden benefit of swopping tyres twice a year is that one can get the wheel alignment checked and adjusted each time, and that greatly improves tyre wear.

You don't do it yourself?

Ruler and broom handle!

No! The garage that stores and changes the tyres does the alignment. They have all the fancy laser gear.

No, I mean change your wheels. It's about the ultimate sign of borgeois pretensions in Finland to not change your own tyres!  

That makes a lot more sense!

Well I could change the tyres myself, but choose not to. I use the same rims summer and winter, so the tires have to be levered on and off the rims. The garage that changes the tyres also stores the spare set until the next swap. 2500 people use this one quite small garage in Derbyshire (which provides an excellent service, in my view) to do the same thing. Nothing to do with pretensions, bourgeois or otherwise. Of course, if I lived in some remote part of Finland or Lapland or Canada I would store and change the tyres myself.

If this is your reality of UK winter (lucky you!) then you probably don't need winter tyres. My reality, further north than Birmingam, is that 80% of UK winter is less than 7 degrees. For me that makes the extra traction (accel/deccel) worthwhile, even without snow. That's a function of rubber compound.

If you found you aquaplaned more with winter tyres then I'd suggest that either your summer tyres were great, or your winter tyres were pants.

Horses for courses etc etc.

According to various tyre manufacturer's, an emergency stop on wet roads in the summer at 50mph will take 4m less if you have summer tyres as opposed to winter ones.
At 30mph and in the dry, the difference is 1.5m.
   

Have I misread that?
Or, does it mean that the garage stores between 5000 and 10000 tyres on behalf of its customers?

Yes. In warm weather winter tyres are not as good as summer tyres, wet or dry. I think we agree on that? 

I totally agree, but there do seem to be some people on the thread saying that winter tyres aren't worse than summer tyres in warm/wet conditions.

also winter tyres wear out a lot quicker in warmer temperatures

I suspect the area of the country you live in has quite an impact on what you think of as summer temperatures! This year was exceptional, but in normal years I can't imagine many people in northern parts of the UK noticing much difference!

I suspect that even Scotland has temperatures in excess of 15-20°C for a few months of the year and therefore there is actually quite a lot of difference when it comes to relying on those tyres when you most need them.
By all means use whatever tyres are legally available, just don't try and say they're as safe in conditions that they're not designed for as their 'properly' designed counterparts.
That goes for winter and summer. 

You are joking, right?? A few days maybe!! 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiW2bv...

I do change between summer and winter tyres, but the year that I forgot to change them I never noticed the difference. 

Yes they're worth it. As mentioned they work best in conditions below about 7degC. In these conditions equivalently budgeted tyres should be safer in all respects, and wear is comparable with summers. 

Brands I've used from worst to best: 

Marangoni (can't remember the model, budget tyre, dreadful everywhere)

Nankang (can't remember the model, budget tyre, OK on snow and ice, poor in the wet, poor handling in the dry)

Hankook Ice Bear (mid-range tyre, pretty poor in the wet, dry handling OK)

Toyo SnowProx (mid-range tyre, OK on snow and ice, good in the wet, dry handling OK)

Nokian WR3 (mid to upper-range tyre, good on snow and ice, good in the wet, dry handling surprisingly good) 

That's unlikely to be due to true aquaplaning, though, which results in almost total loss of friction between the tyre and the road surface due to a continuous layer of water forming between them.  That would increase your stopping distance by significantly more than 4m IMO.  (And it's unusual - though not impossible - for cars to aquaplane at speeds below 40mph, so the 30mph figure is even less likely to be anything to do with aquaplaning.)

Aquaplaning is a different phenomenon from when water on the surface of the roadway merely acts as a lubricant. Traction is diminished on wet pavement even when aquaplaning is not occurring.

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaplaning)

That twitch you get from the steering if you happen to drive at speed through a deep puddle at the side of the road is partly caused by the nearside wheels aquaplaning briefly.  I know from direct experience of driving the same roads in the same car on summer and winter tyres that I can drive through the same puddle at the same speed on my winter tyres with much less drama than would be the case on my summer tyres.  (Note, though, that I would not recommend this as normal practice on any kind of tyre.)

I totally agree, my response and information provided was more of a general indicator/clarification that winter tyres in non-winter conditions don't perform as well as their summer equivalents.
It just seems that some on here are hesitant to accept that winter tyres are just that and that they are indeed worse in conditions that they are not designed for

It only ever gets above 15°C for a few days of the year?  Even during the day?
The 15°C figure is obviously a fudged number and assumes that performance of the winter tyre doesn't just drop off dramatically at the magic 7°C.  If you did use 7°C as the target, then I assume that there would be a lot of days over that, even in Scotland?

You probably wouldn't until you needed to heavily brake and/or manoeuvre around something.
In the same way that I don't notice my tyres performance dropping off at 1°C, etc. but know full well that winter tyres would be better.

More than a few, but certainly not consistently! 18 degrees would be a hot day for us. I declare it an emergency if it reaches 20! 15 would be a pleasant day. Did you follow the link? It shows you the average!!

Yes, obviously. But the point is, any difference will be a lot less up here than in the tropical south! People here will generally notice less of a difference in performance as we have less of a difference in temp!

Maybe I don't buy such good quality summer tyres as I do winter tyres, but I do notice a big difference if I don't put the winter ones on when the temps drop. I notice the lack of grips on sharpish corners and roundabouts. I had a few sketchy moments this year before I got the winter ones on (I didn't order them as early as I should have).

I'm pretty sure it is 2500 customers, so 10,000 tyres!

Impressive!
By my very mental arithmetic, that equates to approximately 650m³ purely on storage and with no gaps to allow for movement between aisles, etc.
That would be a storage facility of about 10m x 20m x 3.25m. 
I reckon that he's conning the lot of you and he's just swapping the tyres between cars as and when they come in and isn't actually storing them.
Genius!
 

Their storage facility is the entire loft of a sizeable garage building. The company is a reputable one.

You reckon wrong. Each owner's tyres are stored in a specific place that is recorded in their computer database. I always check that my tyres really are mine.

Do you really regard conmen of the type you describe to be geniuses?