UKC

Hello folks, 

I'm currently in the Dolomites and would like to check out and shortish via ferrata that I did a couple of months ago. This time parts of it will be icy and it'll make the experience different and wintery. I've seen gopro videos from a couple of days ago and it looks fun, walking behind a waterfall etc. 

Anyways, I'll be heading out with a friend and would like to maximise their safety where possible. For that reason I'm thinking of pitching most of the via ferrata a bit like a sports route: 10mm rope, 2 handfuls of quickdraws, periodical belays. Mostly thinking of my second's safety, I'd be leading the route in all ascents and horizontal sections and lowering the second in the descents. Quickdraws would be mostly attached to the steel via ferrata wire in the horizontal sections. Vertical ascents and descents seem straightforward, as they'll be 'hanging' from the rope. On the horizontal sections I'm thinking a 'running' quickdraw might be safer than a quickdraw attached to the anchors, to minimise fall factors. 

So my question would be if there's any benefit in using a dedicated via ferrata kit in addition to the rope, belay etc. Time won't be an issue as it's a short via ferrata and not too far from the car. 

Cheers and of course feel free to correct my thinking where appropriate. 

The issue could come on a traverse that as you say could lead to a reasonable fall could occur, by using the via ferrata lanyards as well as climbing rope you provide what is called travel restraint meaning you are physically prevented from falling off the edge by the lanyards.

I see your point there. Using a via ferrata lanyard on a traverse would eliminate any fall beyond the length of the lanyard, whereas a traditional rope + quickdraw combination might introduce some swinging. 

Considering fall factors, would it be reasonable to use half a metre of climbing rope with a couple of carabiners as a makeshift VF lanyard connected to the harness? In this case, the maximum length of a fall would be a foot or so (the distance from slack to taught lanyard). Maybe a few knots in the makeshift lanyard will eliminate forces even further to a safe level?

Edit: the above would obviously be used in combination with the rope and quickdraw belaying as described in the opening post

Rope or not I wouldn't be using any 

" make shift " lanyards  !!! 

If you are confident that your ropework will not result in a fall much greater than fall factor 1, tying a Purcell prusik will be safer than using climbing rope as a lanyard, with the added advantage that the user can slide the knot to set the length and then hang on it to get a rest whenever they need it and get used to trusting the gear.

The Purcell prusik looks good. Thanks for the suggestion. I presume you'' use a screwgate to attach the cord to the harness and a carabineer to attach the other end to the VF wire?

Better to larks foot it to the belay loop. Then for the cable end find a big autolocking biner.

Why not use a proper shock absorber like the Kong Kisa ?

https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/f8-ferrata-kit/p326-kisa

https://www.barrabes.com/kong-kisa-pulido/p-41662

Thread it with dynamic rope. The instructions on the Kong website show you the breaking forces.

It's easy if you have any existing trad skills but the following is useful:

Learn how to use a guide plate belay device, attach yourself (at the top of each pitch) to something solid and convenient (usually a stemple) and attach the guideplate to a higher anchor (typically the peg/bolt anchoring the wire or another stemple) using a sling and direct belay off of that.  This is much easier in these circumstances than a belay off your belt.

Position your belay so that the 2nd has a good landing place below you (typically the bolt/peg holding the wire one section below you, ideally with stemples or a ledge) so they can belay you without having to share your stance but so that they are within reach to pass you any anchors.

QDs work as runners but often the pegs (holding the wire) are too thick for the carabiners to clip so it is handy to carry some slings and carabiners you can loop over or larks foot to the pegs (use these rather than the wires on anything other than vertical so the runners don't slide along the cable when needed in anger, on vertical pitches you don't really need runners because you are above the second and their VF kit keeps them close to the wall.  Your own VF kit protects you as well as the lead rope would).

Each carry the usual resting QDs and a sling /screwgate larks footed to your belay point to make belays.

Take gloves - the iron work can be very cold.

Be prepared to aid any icy sections - short days, the cold and possible difficult descents favours progress over purity.

Know how to retreat if the ice is very bad - especially if the VF is a mountain affair - it is likely to get worse as you ascend. Take headtorches.

Generally though it's pretty much the same deal as the summer only colder!

Maximising safety in the Dolomites usually means moving quickly and efficiently. Pitching everything is a recipe for benightment or being caught in bad weather. Don't overelaborate !

I agree with Graham. Simplicity is desirable. 

Hey there, 

thanks for the useful replies. I just lost the post I've been typing for the past 15 minutes, so this will be more succinct. 

Did the VF and it was great. The whole thing was more challenging as parts of the route were completely iced over, covering paths and wires in places. 

We ended up using the rope for the entire VF, taking us 3x the time it took in the summer. Managed to get back to the road before dark, so all good. The ropework was a combination of moving together with a couple of runners between us on level ground and belaying on descents and descents. The lanyard was used occasionally on level ground. 

Good advice regarding slings; turns out carabiners don't really fit around the pegs, so slings are useful to avoid damaging quickdraw carabiners on vertical sections.

Overall a fun day out and good intro into winter VF. 

We have been using dynamic rope cowstails in Rope Access for the last 30 years and so far no fatalities because of it in well over a million hours worked this way.

You wouldn't have a potential Factor 6 fall in rope access, though, would you?  It's maximum factor 2?  And if you did, you'd use a Screamer (stitched sling shock absorber device) or similar just like a VF set has?

We Didn't use rope lanyards for scaffold climbing on my irata course ! , it was an industrial type via ferrata lanyard with a built in rip stop and massive carabiner's !

Taking a unnecessary risk on a via ferrata for the price of a lanyard ! ?¿  

I personally would always use a VF specific lanyard when traveling on a VF, traditional style.

When, however, a rope, belay device & regular runners are used throughout the VF, this turns into something like a sports climb. The lanyard would only really be used on a traverse, mitigating the potential of a swing in case of a slip. On a short, taut & knotted rope (lanyard) attached to the VF cable I doubt fall factors will ever reach 0.5. 

Normal in caving too. Just needs to be used sensibly. A combination of conventional ropework and cowstails could be used to good effect by someone aware of the risks and being thoughtful. Or stuffed up horribly by someone that thinks they have understood the risk or lost focus.

jk

Those krabs are designed to take a side loading, too, unlike a regular one.  You may find a regular one deforms and breaks if side loaded over a bolt or edge with a high factor fall.

VF lanyards are cheap, particularly so in places where there's a lot of it i.e. Italy.  I can't see why anyone would choose not to have the protection of a proper one on a VF.