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How are Revo owners getting on with them? Struggling to find many user reviews over product reviews.
My wife wants to do a bit more climbing with me, but she's not so confident belaying me due to being quite small (55kg) and me being a bit bigger (75kg). Always saying she's worried she may drop me...so that makes me a bit worried!
We've talked about a GriGri, she tried it, and didn't find it intuitive - her words, not mine.
We're wondering if a Revo may suit her a bit more as she's used to belaying from an ATC most of the time.
In reply to greg_may_:
You should consider the Edelrid ohm regardless of which belay device you choose https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/belay-device/edelrid-ohm . I haven't used it but I've only heard glowing reports of its effectiveness when there is a reasonable weight imbalance between belayer and climber.
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In reply to greg_may_:
Yeah, you would want an Ohm as opposed to a different device - although a semi-auto will definitely remove some fear. If your wife is someone who prefers simplicity then the Edelrid Jul 2 is the way to go - semi-auto doesn't get simple than that. It's worth simply investing a little learning time and considering the Grigri or Trango Vergo, however - they offer the best all round experience.
The Ohm is the real magic, though. I've climbed without problems with someone 30kg lighter than me, and have seen children belaying parents using them - it's a real leveler.
I have to say though - I regularly climb with a partner with whom I share the same weight differential as you and your wife, and this is a zero issue - I never clip the top anchor indoors and regularly take big falls on redpoint. A good option is to skip the first clip on a route (where it is safe to do so) as this gives your belayer more room to be pulled up in a soft catch without getting slammed into the first clip.
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In reply to greg_may_:
Just realised I never mentioned the Revo - stay away unless you want to go rope soloing.
It's great for giving a slick belay but the catch can be tricky and lowering is rubbish. The automatic nature doesn't kick in unless you basically let go of the rope, and it's really heavy.
Great for climbing alone, though
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In reply to greg_may_:
I'd avoid the Revo - it's not easy to use for normal sport climbing, especially when trying to take in tight, and is much less intuitive to use than a Grigri.
I'd use the Ohm, as others suggest, and take a look at the BD ATC Pilot, for an assisted-locking device which is less finicky than the Jul.
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In reply to greg_may_:
The Revo could probably top my list of all time pointless climbing kit.
£100 for something that isn’t as good as a £65 GriGri.
The Edelrid Ohm, as others have said, is great. I’ve only used one a little bit but it sounds like it’d be a good investment for you - assuming you’re talking sport / indoor climbing.
Post edited at 09:51
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In reply to David Barlow:
This is good advice, I'm a bit of a tubster (100ish kg) and was climbing with a friend who I estimate to be 55ish kg using one, she wasn't getting thrown about when I fell off level with bolts. I also fell off level with the second bolt (not clipped) indoors and was comfortably caught by a friend who weighs around 60-65 kg. They're pricey but brilliant.
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I havent tried the Revo and never liked a Grigri or Clickup, but me and Mrs Ant were in the same position after struggling to hold a whipper with an ATC XP (I assume a mixture of bad technique, weight difference and sub 9mm rope).
We got the original Mammut Smart first, the high friction gives both of us confidence and the slightly slower payout is worth it. It can hold me (70kg) on small falls with 10mm+ ropes with the device engaging before the brake hand.
I just got a Jul2 as well, more like a typical ATC but a fraction less grippy, can hold her for a rest with token effort from the brake hand.
Post edited at 10:23
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In reply to greg_may_:
Realistically her weight won't affect her ability to hold the rope in the event of a fall my girlfriend belays me with a 30kg difference and a normal belay device is fine. Even if you're lifted off the ground that too doesn't stop you holding the rope that would only happen if you chose to let go, Luckily my girlfriend hasn't got that frustrated with me yet and shes happy to sail up to the first clip, which is where your wife will end up regardless of device, without letting go. She actually prefers a standard DMM pivot indoors as giving a dynamic belay and allowing the rope to slip slightly means she launches less, but thats a more advanced technique.
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In reply to greg_may_:
Another vote for the OHM, I've been belayed comfortably by people half my weight (100-50kg).
Probably the best bit of climbing equipment since the original gri gri
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In reply to JohnBson:
> Even if you're lifted off the ground that too doesn't stop you holding the rope that would only happen if you chose to let go,
It does when she panics and lets go... the idea is to avoid that.
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In reply to greg_may_:
Going to take a look at the OHM, not aware of anyone who uses one but I'll ask around!
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In reply to greg_may_:
UKC review here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/edelrid_ohm-9503
In reply to greg_may_:Where are you hoping to climb with your wife? Wall, bolts or trad? The revo is oK bu 4m/s is pretty fast when your falling. Works well though but a grigri plus is better. There are loads of assisted braking devices out there some better in certain situations.
In reply to greg_may_:
I have a Revo, primarily for rope soloing, at which it is great. I have used it for belaying and it's not great. It always does its locking bit, however trying to do graduated resistance or holding a load is hard as it seems to offer very little resistance.
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In reply to greg_may_:
It feels quite strange in that it only actually locks if you actually let go of the rope. Otherwise it's just like a normal plate. I prefer a grigri by a country mile. I'm sure if I used a Revo for 10 years I'd get used to it but it's heavy and expensive so doubt I'd ever bother.
In reply to greg_may_:
Always saying she's worried she may drop me...so that makes me a bit worried!
> We've talked about a GriGri, she tried it, and didn't find it intuitive - her words, not mine.
If she gets pulled around/off balance/upwards while stopping a fall due to the weight difference, it's far more likely she'll drop you with an ATC than with a GriGri. The fact that she's more used to an ATC and finds the GriGri non-intuitive after an initial try is irrelevant, really - the GriGri works well and is easy to adjust to, just takes a couple of sessions. I would suggest getting her to persevere rather than shopping around for expensive alternatives.
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In reply to greg_may_:
It sound to me like there are 2 issues at play here..
1. The weight differential - which is totally sorted by the Ohm
2. Her worrying that she'll drop you (particularly as you'll feel heavy whilst she's holding you on an ATC) - So you'll need an assisted breaking device (what some people call a locking belay device). My partner also didn't like the feel of a Gri Gri, but thankfully there's loads of other options around now. We found the Click-Up to be the best one for us. There's loads to choose from though....
With both an Ohm and a assisted breaking device you're all set...
Post edited at 13:20
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In reply to greg_may_:
As others have said, the OHM will be worth having.
I've been using a Revo since October and belayed with it loads now. Been switching between the Revo, GriGri, and Reverso. I've also given the Revo to climbing partners to try out.
What's it like?
For paying out rope it's slick and fast, super easy to use and the same as a stitch plate or similar. If you pull the rope up really fast (when clipping for example) it may lock! A quick pull down on the dead rope releases it and all back to normal.
For lowering it feels 'lumpy' and slightly more awkward than a regular device. Some partners have commented on it being 'more difficult to hold/control', although I haven't noticed that myself.
It is heavy and quite pricey. But if you're cragging with short walk-ins, the weight is a non-issue. As it's only around £20 more than the latest Grigri that's likely not a deal breaker either. I agree with your wife re the Grigri being non-intuitive, and if she didn't like it then best keep it out of the running anyway.
If she doesn't already, wearing belay gloves will almost certainly increase confidence too. And that's regardless of what device is used.
HTH
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In reply to greg_may_:
Almost every male-female climbing couple I see at my local walls is using them these days.
In reply to greg_may_:
Decent questions.
However, 55 to 75kg is a 36% difference which is relatively low, by which I mean that most experienced climbers wouldn't be bothered by it. In fact, many good sport climbers would probably consider it almost ideal in that it's in the range that makes giving a good dynamic belay very straightforward. Belaying well the other way round and consistently giving a soft catch is going to be far harder.
The stage at which an Ohm really becomes useful is at weight differences well over 50% where even lowering off becomes tricky and the belayer hitting the first bolt indoors is a real risk even in moderate falls.
My advice would be exactly the same as bpm's, get her to persevere with a Gri-Gri. Pretty much every argument against them that I've heard online ad nauseam over two decade is just complete crap. It's no accident that amongst top sport climbers they are ubiquitous. They work and for indoor leading and sport they work better than pretty much any other belay device ever invented, it's just as simple as that.
However, whatever you do, actually practice falling off and holding falls. That's far more important for building confidence than exactly what set-up you use. For the best and most comprehensive description ever written on how to do that, the appendix in Espresso Lessons by Arno Ilgner https://www.amazon.co.uk/Espresso-Lessons-Rock-Warriors-Way/dp/0974011231 is well worth the price of the Kindle edition even if you never read any of the rest of the book.
Post edited at 14:09
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In reply to MischaHY:
> Great for climbing alone, though
Do you use it on its own, or with a second device as backup?
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Revo + microtraxion to hold the dead rope weight. Spaced backup knots if it feels sketch. Haven't used it a whole bunch but seems to work.
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In reply to greg_may_:
I really like the ATC pilot, takes a wee bit of getting used to but exceptionally reassuring in use
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In reply to greg_may_:
I have used the Ohm a lot now and its great. Both for holding the initial fall of a heftier partner but also holding them in place while dogging the moves. There might be a slight issue in some circumstances with the ability to give a soft catch but this has only happened once to me.
Still haven't been able to work out what happened!
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In reply to Iamgregp:
Agree that there are two separate issues, the weight differential and the confidence in managing the pull. But I suggest getting her to try a few more ATC-like assisted devices first (I like the click up) before buying an Ohm because once she has got used to the reassurance of the belay assistance she may feel the weight difference isn’t enough to be a problem. If it still is, then buy an ohm as well, but they aren’t cheap.
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In reply to Gone:
Very good point that, a more pragmatic approach than my suggestion!
In reply to greg_may_:
Well then teach her not to. Reminding someone if reminding someone of the consequences of letting go of the dead rope doesn't sharpen their mind they aren't suited to belaying without a second person tailing the dead rope. It's pretty simple. As I said I dragged my belayer to the first piece of pro before, they didn't let go anymore than I would, the belayers weight has nothing to do with their ability to hold the rope, the only thing which does is their will power to do so.
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In reply to JohnBson:
To be fair, if a belayer is much, much lighter than their partner they are going to be pulled up to the first draw quickly and violently which is more likely to cause panic and make them let go of the rope, than someone who is heavier and is gently raised a couple of feet off the floor.
You are right, their weight has nothing to do with their ability to hold the rope, but it does have an effect on the conditions under which that ability is tested, which will affect their performance.
I'm nitpicking here I know, but I can identify with the OP's partners feeling here, I'm pretty light....
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In reply to greg_may_:
Lots of good suggestions here folks, thanks!
I think we will have a few more sessions with a GriGri and see how she feels about that. May get an ATC Pilot as I suspect that may be something she'd get on with, and they're not too expensive either.
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In reply to greg_may_:
Another vote for click up, I have the alpine up and prefer it to the grigri by far.
In reply to Iamgregp:
The belayer won't panic if they are completely aware of what will happen, and happy with the process.
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In reply to beardy mike:
> Another vote for click up, I have the alpine up and prefer it to the grigri by far.
With respect Mike I'm amazed by this. We've had one to test at work for a while and despite some persistence I find myself absolutely detesting the Alpine Up on every use. Sure, it does everything - but it just doesn't seem to do anything well. Fat ropes? Far too grippy. Skinny ropes? On/Off lowering with none of the progressiveness of competitors - and don't even get me started on guide mode!
Am I doing it all wrong? Used with the standard biner provided by CT and Edelrid Kestrel 8.5 halves, plus Mammut Infinity 9.5 and Edelrid Boa 9.8 as singles.
In comparison we were in the gym with Petzl last week testing their new kit and the lastest Grigri is an absolute joy to use even on fat old ropes.
Is there a trick to it?
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In reply to MischaHY:
Haha - no accounting for tastes I've not used the newer Grigri so couldn't comment at all on that - the Grigri is so much the standard and it's hard to criticise it. Personally I find the Alpine up more or less just like a standard tuber which is what I normally use, yes you have to modify the way you pull out rope a little but other than that I think it's about as close as you can get to a standard tuber. I use mine mainly with a pair of 7.8 Edelrid Apus ropes and think the guide mode is easier to use than most guide mode tubers in terms of pulling through rope. The lock function in standard belay mode is massively useful when alpine climbing and you want to lock someone off whilst you fiddle with something (like you inevitabley do). Yes, I would totally say it's not a beginners device, that it takes some getting used to in terms of setting it up and that it might be marmitey if you are used to a grigri, but as a straight up useful device I think you can't beat it. I mean for example I used it for reascending a pitch of ice earlier in the year after our ropes got stuck leaving it in autoblock and just yarding in the rope as I climbed... lots of uses... I guess my aversion to the Grigri is more personal than anything else in that I simply don't use them much - I have one and I used to use it for belaying on aid pitches and as an ascender but that was about it.
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In reply to MischaHY:
I've got both the ClickUp and the AlpineUp and never use them, they do some things reasonably well and other things badly. It's still a Grigri for me.
Comparing the Revo to the Up's in the context of the OP is chalk to cheese, the Revo is a very weak belay device but locks reliably if you let go of the rope, the Up's are extremely powerful used correctly but very unreliable if you let go of the rope before they lock. The Grigri is better than both which is why they are so popular.
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In reply to jimtitt:
I don't think you mean the Revo is weak as I have seen your posts on Mountainproject. I think you are talking about its function as a belay device, especially when compare to the Grigri. I have used both; the Grigri for years, and the Revo just a few weeks. In my opinion, the Revo is no match for the Grigri on almost all accounts. Except for lead solo climbing where the Revo could prove to be the new standard device. Maybe even better than the Silent Partner.
In reply to beardy mike:
I'll grant you it's the only double rope device that can genuinely do all the things including rope ascension - Megajul gets close but lack of dynamic mode plus the slip on ascension is a weak factor - we're getting the Gigajul in the test pool this week so I'm looking forward to putting that through its paces.
I have to say, I massively recommend trying the new Grigri. The small adaptations have made a really impressive difference to the performance - the lowering really incredibly progressive, the sensation of real stable control with the lever even with a much heavier partner is remarkable.
I've recently taken to climbing harder alpine multipitches with a single Edelrid Canary plus tagline just so I can climb with a Grigri - but it can be an arse if the route wanders. Would love something with Grigri performance for double ropes but I'm not sure how realistic that is...
In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:
Well okay, the Revo has poor braking force.....
No belay devices are weak constructionally, the certification test takes care of that.
In reply to jimtitt:
Your testing did however give me a lot more confidence in the Revo for rope soloing! Cheers for that.
In reply to jimtitt:
Agree, the Revo has poor braking force, except when it is locking. Then it brakes brilliantly.
In reply to MischaHY:
Tried the MegaJul and concluded it was the spawn of satan. Just hated having to have your hand on the tuber all the time, hated the stainless staying steaming hot after lowering, the lack of control during lowering amongst other things. But then there are those who think it's great. Would be interested to know what peoples opinion of the Camp Matik is if anybody could bear to part with their cash...
In reply to beardy mike:
I've used the mega jul more than any other device I have for maybe 4 or 5 years now, and I still don't get why you find lowering with it so difficult! But we're all different etc etc! Paying out is more difficult so sometimes for winter climbing I used a reverso or ATC guide, but at the same time the megajul is so light, abseil excellently and is much more likely to catch a fall if you mess up in some way.
I used a Revo once last summer. Weird experience! I didn't get on with it at all, but it was only one session. Nevertheless, I now know it wouldn't be my choice of autolocking device. Needing to hold the rope tightly while the leader rested was odd after using either the megajul or my original grigri for sport climbing for so long.
In reply to TobyA:
Variety is the spice of life I guess...
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In reply to beardy mike:
Haven't tried the Matik but have been doing a long term test of the Trango Vergo and must say I really like it. Well worth a play if you haven't already. Feels weird at first though... Fair warning.
In reply to greg_may_:
Hi sorry to revisit a thread but I was looking at the WC revo at the weekend and was seriously impressed with it.
i have always used a bug device to belay an admittedly much lighter climber than myself. So from what I experienced I found
its a lovely piece of kit to hold
it is bi directional
It cannot be used without the biner engaged
it flows very freely, i suppose the equivalent of belaying someone on a pulley
it still works on the z just like a bug (I don’t know complicated terms but that’s how I picture the rope)
for lead catches it was wonderfully smooth. I experienced 2 or 3 good falls with brake end fully covered but good slack. It was commented how nice the catches felt.
One of my first thoughts was indeed how would I cope with someone much heavier to hold them say if they were resting but I found it easy to manually engage the steel knuckles that are designed to engage if you want to lock the device, especially with the weight of a climber already on the rope.
i didn’t witness any issues with letting the climber down on this device but I am open to being corrected on this as I was indeed lowering a very light climber. This is the one part I want to go back and test. As it’s basically still a z type device, surely it’s just a case of keeping the brake hand in the correct position. Or does the pulley effect make it really difficult
any comments appreciated
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In reply to Andrew Kin:
The Revo provides less braking force than almost any modern plate, probably about the same as the Bug so lowering will be equally difficult with a heavier climber.
If you read my tests linked to above you will see that manually locking the tuber (that's what WC call them) it isn't engaging into the correct cut-out in the wheel and can jump out under load.
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In reply to greg_may_:
> We've talked about a GriGri, she tried it, and didn't find it intuitive - her words, not mine.
My wife and I are big GriGri fans. It feels really natural, feeds out well and feels very reliable..... but the first time I used a GriGri, I really didn't get on with it. It took us some time to get used to it, but for us has been well worth it. I would add that using it with old, thick, furred up ropes is awkward though, but I expect that that's true of many devices.
Not really used a click up, jul, smart or any of the other ones enough to comment on them. I'm also not saying a GriGri is better, just that even if it doesn't feel intuitive after one session, it might feel great after five!
I really like my Revo and find it easy to catch falls. I like that the technique is essentially the same as an ATC.
I'm another who found the GriGri not intuitive but then it was an older one not a new model last time I tried one. Lowering, the Revo does grab at the rope a bit but I've never had too much of an issue though I do mostly climb with those lighter than me.
It definitely does not like the thick stiff topropes at the wall but I don't use it for those.
In reply to greg_may_:
Significant weight differences are better handled by an Edelrid Ohm, costs about the same but you also need a belay device.
The revo is more appropriate as a failsafe where the belayer may loose control of the brake rope. If there is a significant weight difference the belayer still risks being pulled off their feet, slammed into wall. The Ohm greatly reduces this risk.
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