UKC

Hi,

Im planning a trip to Skye in mid August with the Mrs and was looking at some routes to do whilst we're there. The Mrs not being a climber, means I'll have to venture out on my own.

Just wanted to know if the Inn Pinn is soloable really and if people have experience doing it. From what I've read, the ab off from the western ridge is about 18m but the eastern ridge is the normal route to ascend.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Cheers.

Can you down solo a 60m mod?

Lots of solos in the logs but all relative to experience.

Wasn't  planning on down soloing the same route,  I was intending on bring rope and gear to ab off the western side.

Grasshopper

What do you wish for? Is Alex Honnold a human being? What is terminal velocity? Can you control your breathing? Is that smear damp? Who was Jimmy Jewel? Will it be windy?

The answer lies at the bottom of the Inn Pinn. 

Of course its soloable, you could even take your bike. 

Hope that helps.

Just take your harness.  You'll be able to hitch an abseil down the rope of one of the other parties on the pinnacle at the same time as you.

I soloed the short side in walking boots. At that time my hardest lead with rock gear was VS. I didn't find the Inn Pin that difficult. 

From your logbook I think its too much, easy rock but very exposed.

It's hard to expect someone to say yay or nay to this for you.

The climbing is easy if you climb.  The exposure and fall risk is huge.  If you fall there is a high chance it will be fatal. 

For most people who climb regularly -and- are experienced mountaineers -and- who are good with extreme exposure it will be safely within their limits. If this doesn't describe you then this isn't the "mod" to try soloing out on. 

Obviously, conditions make a big difference and the conditions on Skye are very variable.  Experience matters in this respect.

The answer to your question lies in who you are.  If you are an experienced mountaineer looking for some beta about the nature of the route then it is solo-able.  If not, then this is probably not the route to discover if it is for you.

Another thing about it. Although there are big holds it's very polished, which makes it quite a lot less friendly than it would otherwise be. The other main point about it is that it is witheringly exposed and it's not the place to be without a rope if you were to get frightened on it.

Soloed up and down the long side in Aku walking boots and I'm quite a timid climber.  Usually abseil though.  It can be unnerving in wind if you're not used to it but still doable - can make interesting problems during descent with the rope blowing hard round the corner out of sight of the descent line!

Can be a nightmare in both wet and windy conditions but a dream on a warm dry day

If you can do that you'll like Pinnacle Ridge on Sgurr nan Gillean

ps midgies still bite high up in the Cuillin!

I reckon soloing Corvus is on a par with soloing the Inn Pin in terms of nerve

If you have to ask then no.

jcm

If you can't solo climb up the short steep side, you won't be able to safely down climb it. 

Buy a £20 gift card for a chain off licence, I'm sure several folk will happily let you ab down first in return. 

I soloed up and down the easy way (in perfect conditions) last year. Absolutely straightforward, good holds. If you're a steady climber you should have no problems in good weather. but obviously best to try soloing a few easy climbs before your trip, if you haven't already done so.

Back in the good old days we did a route on the Coire Lagan face, perfect day and I thought I'd better solo the long side or it'll feel like I've not ticked the summit (though I had). It was very easy (in the early 90s at least, maybe a deal more polished now). Probably easier technically than curved ridge  but absurdly exposed and narrow by comparison and I'm not kidding (famously overhanging and infinite on one side and longer and steeper on the other).

I'd happily solo up curved ridge on any and every summer day wet or dry even now but I'd think long and hard before I set off up the long side of the InnPinn again. 

It would be a pretty easy solo. Lots of the hold wobble in an unnerving manner though because of how many people have pulled on them. You should also take into account that in mid summer on a nice day, it's likely to be busy, so soloing around other people (at least some of whom might be being guided and have very little experience of how to act safely), might be rather less than ideal.

I did it once years ago but I don't remember that much (I think I was leading roped up but its a bit of a guess), so my knowledge isn't too up-to-date.

Having looked at your profile I think I agree with the earlier respondent John Kelly (my reasoning being the lack of lead climbing you've recorded, it would not be a good place to suffer an attack of disco leg) 

If you want to carry a rope and abseil back down I'd recommend the tourist route on sgurr nan gillean and abbing off down the other side (do a bit or research on best descents). In my opinion Sgurr nan Gillean is the finest Munro summit. (Note that the tourist route is NOT Pinnacle ridge mentioned above) 

Save the InnPinn for your traverse when you'll have a partner for the climbing sections.

Best  regards, enjoy your trip. Andy. O

It's a very exposed grade 3 scramble on good holds. Hence I agree with many of the views above: if you are not experienced soloing on such terrain maybe consider building up to that experience before the attempt. For the experienced, its the best friendly mod solo I know of in the UK. You only need a 40m rope for the abseil.

There is an idiotic opinion: soloing Corvus is way harder and much scarier. Pinnacle Ridge is quite a bit harder as a route.

Agree, I’ve done Corvus quite a few times, and it’s not a straight forward solo. 

I have soloed the In Pinn, and it is not too tricky, as mentioned it has great holds all the way, but the risk is huge. I am quite timid, and don’t think I’d do it again.

On a good day there may be a queue of people leading the E ridge and abseiling the W. Also a queue of guided climbers climbing the W then abseiling down. You are talking about climbing the E and abseiling the W, that's OK. I wouldn't want to start to solo down the E and meet someone climbing up.

I've climbed the E ridge roped in big boots and don't recall any moves harder than mod. However if soloing, you slip, you die. Not really fair to ask others whether it is OK to solo.

Idiotic?

Thanks, MATE!   I've soloed both several times and both are at my top end for soloing.  And I mentioned that I was referring in terms of nerve.

Comprendi?  You show yourself up by using idiotic about a careful opinion based on years of experience and many many days in the mountains, OK I'm a low grade climber so perhaps you on your haughty Ivorie Tower of Academia can look down on me and despic me

And I have climbed the Inn Pin in various conditions and it can be anything but straightforward and quite worrying in some conditions.   I've backed off on a wet and windy day with a Sea King circling round to check on me but waved it away.  On the other hand I've led Corvus in a downpour and no one had particular problems though it was less than pleasant (wasn't my particular wish that day).

Talking about nerve in the comparison!  And if you see my sense it suggests that in terms of nerve you can tell whether the Inn Pinn will be over the top for you by trying Corvus, not necessarily solo.

You can judge while roped whether you'd solo something in the warm and dry.

Your last sentence is spot on. It makes little sense to ask questions like this. So much depends on how you feel when you look at it, standing at the bottom of it.

Pinnacle Ridge is a more serious route and the route finding is more of a challenge but it is definitely not harder than the Inn Pin unless you go off route.  Mind you the only person I've done it with who had such real problems he needed a handrail rope coming down to cross to the Main summit was a pure roped HVS leader and not, it seems, with a head for scrambling.

If you're best onsight indoors is 5+ then I'd say no, for your own safety. Skye is a beautiful area from what I've heard and seen. I'd just do some great walks, unless you can get a partner and have experience of outdoor trad. Have a good one.

Suspect this kind of thing happens quite a bit. I know of someone (a decent climber) who hung around at the Sgurr Dearg cairn for a while in hope (successful) of finding someone to hitch up with for the Pinn. I also know of a non-climber who paid a complete stranger £20 in cash on the ridge and was duly taken along the scrambly section of Sgurr Mhic Choinnich. Both events worked out well but I'm not sure it's the approach I'd adopt!

Also pretty sure a fair few people solo the long side of the Pinn unroped then ab off - when we did it (Skye MRT friend leading, three of us of varying abilities on the rope behind) we were followed up by a chap who used to climb but had had a gap and was curious to know "If I could still do it". He soloed behind us and used our rope to ab off, but he had a rope of his own in the sack.

As someone else upthread has said, it depends a lot on the day, both in terms of conditions and mood. We were there in perfect August weather and near the base of the Pinn we met two men who looked better equipped and generally more capable than us. We asked if they were going up and one of them said something like "We're thinking about it". Met them again later when we were lounging by the loch in Coire Lagan and it turned out they'd thought better of it. Sounds like this was the correct decision but we also reckoned that if they weren't up for it on a day as good as that then they might never do it.

One other thought, affects me on occasion as my other half doesn't climb: how is Mrs Mogie5 going to enjoy her day while you try this? Even if all is well, is she gonna be dreading this the whole hols? And what if...only one of you came home?

I AM quite cautious, don't solo (much),  and I was a climber and biker before I met Mrs Brendano, but still...

I wouldn't solo it. It's very easy, mod, big holds, a few awkward steps (for a mod) and that's it but it's mega exposed and a fall would be fatal.

I'd probably be happier soloing the VDiff side to be honest.

Agree with others, I don't think its fair to ask if its fine to solo. It's a mod, so it's easy but many will go to pieces on it (I think I probably would...).

What about carrying a 9mm walking rope? Would 20m (10 doubled) be sufficient to get off the short side? 

There's so many opinionated and outspoken *seeming* people on the internet, that it's (taken me a while to realise that it's) ultimately more peaceful to take five and breath, and remember there's a world of peace outside of being online.  

To engage with aggro can disturb our equilibrium.

I'd happily recommend The Inn Pinn solo in good conditions for someone experienced with soloing grade 3 scrambles. On gritstone I'd maybe even grade it Easy 2a,  but Mod is fair for modern Skye guidebook grades (where at last a lot of the lower grade classic sandbags have been outed).  It's all in balance on good holds and dealing with the exposure is the main factor of concern (more likely to spook an experienced lower grade climber trying to solo than an experienced grade 3 soloist). There is no way I would ever recommend a solo of Corvus for such a person as I think it's a 'proper diff' and safe and technical (D 3a on grit?). Even as a Diff solo in good conditions its precarious and it also holds damp. On the hand traverse its nearly all on your hands and you have to apply blind trust its OK onsight. The polish also affects the route much more, especially on the first pitch slab. I love soloing big lower grade routes but I find many a VDiff classic more secure than Corvus. I've taught hundreds of beginners to climb and am very experienced in guidebook work with a strong interest in making sure things are OK for lower grade leaders and I often take notes after climbing routes so my memory doesn't play tricks.

Thats my opinion and I think yours is idiotic for those reasons and I really fail to see what it has to do with academia.

Oh and I think Pinnacle Ridge is a couple of technical grades harder than the Inn Pinn with much harder route finding and a bit bold at times. This is assuming you abseil the downclimbs (otherwise its at least HVD 4a unless we missed an easy way).

You don't 'have' to say people's opinions are idiotic, though, given the subjectivity of climbing I'm sure there's another more tactful way you could find to disagree - if you wanted to.

Giving advice to lower grade inexperienced climbers you don't know on a website is something I think needs great care. Would you seriously rate an onsight solo of the Inn Pinn as anything like comparable to a solo of Corvus (let alone an onsight solo of it)? I'm sure wercat is trying to be helpful and that may even be his memory of the comparison but I know enough to know the opinion is clearly wrong for the average climber. Climbing is a risk game and I think toning down words in such situations is ill advised: I'd rather risk annoying some UKC posters than potentially give a false impression by being kind and coded and if that code isn't read, to add serious risk to ascents. 

I didn't say I was right - I was giving what is my opinion based on sound experience and many visits over the years in lots of different conditions.   What I dispute is your highly offensive and grossly unreasonable use of "idiotic" which you have failed to justify!

As for tech grade and Pinnacle Ridge, perhaps PD+ which is still a "scramblers grade"?

I think you completely overlook scrambing as a skill, experience and mental package that can mean that more dedicated rock climbers perhaps don't always see the summit for the screes.

If you don't retract the word you can be judged by it, your choice.

I've done the Wetterhorn, Mittelhorn, Moench and various other peaks solo (the Wetterhorn was the only ascent that day, so fairly independently) so you can judge whether I have the necessary mental equipment to make judgements involving safety or am merely "idiotic", MATE.

I've also had numerous discussions with guides I've met on the Cuillin and elsewhere when I've been out there and I listen to other people's opinions before putting my foot in it.

Your logic is flawed- you should be able to discern the implication that if Corvus isn't seen as a walkover then the Inn Pin is something to be thort hard abowt.

More people have done Corvus than soloed the Inn Pin so it gives a reference point in common experience n'est ce pas?

Moreover my posts about the i/p mentioned the variability dependent on weather, something rather important given the rock type.

I thought there was alarm at his advice behind you saying it was idiotic.  The OP isn't going to gain much else from the word idiotic, I'm thinking, than what you think of his advice, so you might as well go into why you don't think much of somebody's advice in the first place, which is what is ultimately useful in the end. I reckon. 

I started as a scrambler and have a lot of experience at that across the UK. I have climbed with hundreds of lower grade climbers and worked on guidebooks with people who have collectively climbed with thousands. I stand by my grade alignment and views.

PD+ isnt always a scramble either. It could be VDiff on good rock in the Pyrenees.

Inn Pinn is an exposed grade 3 scramble (with an abseil escape) and Pinnacle Ridge maybe a bit too hard for a scramble (and needs abseils at the grade) and Corvus most certainty isn't a scramble

And there was you thinking, I'll just ask for a piece of advice off a couple of hundred random climbers. Look what you started. 

"Inaccessable" +  "Inn Pinn"= idiotic spelling?

No. Its often quoted as being 18m ie needs at least 36m if doubled.

I bought a 35m 9mm years and years ago as a lighter rope and never got to try it - I lent it (permanently as it transpired) to some friends who used it on the abseil and said it was perfect for the job, and I suppose it stretched to the necessary during their abseil!

I think I'd be more inclined to cut an old 9mm to 40m erring on the side of caution.  At my age ~I'm finding 50m weighs too much!  Worth remembering, before optimising for the I/P that there are other places on the ridge where people make abseils that aren't always on the optimum line and 36m  might leave you somewhere awkward.  That is the only reason I still haven't cut down a rope.

I'm not putting forward my opinion as best or better but simply as not idiotic.  I discovered the Cuillin for myself often alone and so have many other people over the years.  I don't think making a hard line between climbing and scrambling is helpful in places like this or in the Alps.  It is far more about being level headed and having mountain sense than technical grade.

We are not going to agree as I really do think equating solos of The Inn Pinn mod and Corvus for  inexperienced soloists is idiotic. In theoretical adjectival equivalence terms for onsight solos I'd regard the former as around Diff equivalence to a normal lead grade and the latter as around Severe (both for those who do solo a lot).

I see no hard line between scrambles and climbs. I see they blur as the grades overlap and because being technically hard in short but not exposed pitches can make a scramble easier than a climb of the normal equivalent grade, whereas bold exposed and sustained terrain can be the opposite ). Hence I think that argument is just a red herring. 

If I see somebody on here talking about somebody else's viewpoint being idiotic - or along those lines, I generally decide that they're just another rather opinionated person who doesn't credit others with the benefit of being civil to them.  It makes me more likely to 'tune out' their posts. Without saying this applies to most others who use these forums, I can't imagine I'm the only one that this happens to. 

Speaking straight forwardly, going into detail about why one disagrees could seem to be more helpful than the applying of derogatory labels to opinions one doesn't agree with, it helps others to learn more towards keeping themselves safe. 

Edit: It strikes me that you're undoubtedly experienced and 'cagey in a good way'  towards always coming back from a day's climbing. 

The long route is a technically very easy.  However, as others have said, it is polished, it is very exposed, it can be loose in places, and depending on when you do it, it may well be busy with other people with varying levels of experience.  And a fall would likely be fatal.

The only person who can make the right choice for you is you.  Personally, I'll use a rope again if I do it again - too many objective hazards for me!

The joy of it is that it lends itself very well to doing with a scrambling rope - very fast. Two very quick pitches, scarcely bothering to drop on any runners. The same rope you use to abseil with.

Are you Daria Morgendorffer in disguise?

Never heard of her. 

This is the best way of doing it really - a satisfying traverse. You'll know yourself how you are soloing a Mod, but do note that as others stress, it's very exposed so you do need a good head for heights. Ignore some of the comments that mention soloing the short side - this is much, much harder (graded Severe in the current guidebook)!

I'm not trolling but I have a 36m rope which cost about £5+£5p&p. Its 8mm polypropylene bought on internet, breaking strain 900kg+, very light (825g ie 23g/m; probably about half the weight of 9mm kernmantel) and thick enough to use ordinary ab methods. I considered quite carefully before getting it, for abbing only. I previously tested it in safe conditions, but obviously I shouldn't recommend it and anyone would use it at their own risk.

Very interesting idea.  I'd want to know how it stood up to friction heating of course, not that I'm given to dramatic racing abseils these days ..

Well I've certainly used my 8mm to abseil quite a few times mainly with long sling arranged round legs and waist, single small screwgate, double rope over shoulder. I spent an interesting hour or so trying out various ab methods on mine with a chap from New Zealand that I met on Skye.

In fact used sensibly I'd say there is no danger from melting through. I base this on the fact that probably hundreds of thousands of bottom rope climbs were done on southern sandstone using polyprop ropes, albeit thicker. I was taught to climb using them. People were often lowered down on these ropes via a screwgate at the top. Quite knarled looking old ropes were available for hire locally, 10 shillings as I recall.
 

I might investigate this idea - thanks!   Skye is rather destructive of equipment and the weight saving looks attractive.  I'd certainly experiment first, incrementally in seriousness of course.

Before doing experimentation it is of course worth remembering a story in one of the Abraham Brothers books describing a meeting on Sgurr nan Gillean with a friend of theirs (no longer alive at the time of the writing of the book!) who was experimenting climbing with some kind of metal plates (of his own making strapped to his boots.

It is always way more intimidating and exposed than pictures ever lead you to believe, and almost always the headspace you are in at the foot of it, is way less confident than when you planned it all.

Funny I almost felt the opposite as a climber, enjoyable exposure but for the munroe baggers the buzz and anxiety must be amazing. On my ridge traverse (in approach shoes with a very minimal rack) all my main fears were on descents: the up climbing and scrambling were fab even though the exit from the TD gap (HVD 4a IMHO) and the section up the Bastier tooth ( Naismiths  is also HVD in my view and the 4b boulder problem above was a surprise) needed care. The big surprise to me was how easy and secure the Inn Pinn mod was and in comparison how hard the route up the front was, yet only supposedly a grade harder... I backed off with an exploratory solo... now given severe. As I said the new guide has done a good job in trying to out all these old sandbags.

Definitely true

In case you do so I'm using the bog standard non-braided twisted 3 ply split film (now much commoner than multifilament) polypropylene ropes. I think I bought mine from Timko Ropes which will sell them cut to any length at good prices (it actually seems slightly thinner than  8mm but I rang back to check and the guy remembered cutting it from the 8mm reel). Its 960 kg, some suppliers quote much lower weights for their ropes but that's usually allowing for a large safety margin. I've also used BandQ! The rope can kink annoyingly but as its only for occasional abs the lightness more than compensates. Its quite shiny when new but I find friction entirely adequate with ATC-XP etc even with a single strand. Another advantage is doesn't take up water unlike nylon kernmantel.

Two contrasting outcomes for you. When I did it the first time my missus lead the easy side. I  don't recall her putting any worthwhile runners in. I remember finding it a scary experience. She was 6 or 7 months pregnant at the time so had to keep one hand on her harness to try to keep it sliding off the bump. I guess the other hand was used to hold on, leaving nothing spare to place gear. It would have been more sensible for her to solo it in hindsight, but she was happy.

On the other hand, when I did the ridge on my own a couple of years back I baulked at the idea of soloing the easy side, even though I'd happily soloed Kings and TD gap.

So I got someone to give me a belay on the short side for a couple of minutes. I think there'll generally be someone around in the height of summer if the weather is decent.