UKC

A friend mentioned that there was a list of 13 3 star Lakes E1s in an old select guidebook, before stars got slapped on every route.

Does anyone have a list of the routes?

No. 

But here's my list all the same :

Whits end direct

Arcturus

Razor crack

Gimmer string

Bludgeon 

Central buttress

Leverage 

Phoenix 

Praying mantis

Raindrop

First touch 

Red Edge (not done it, need to!)

Flat iron wall

Waste not want not (think I'm starting to run out of ideas now, but it's my favourite e1 on white ghyll)

Aardvark (underrated!)

Oh, that's too many. Maybe 13 is in fact the right number? 

IMO you've missed some of the best!

Totalitarian (E1 5c), 

Banzai Pipeline (E1 5b), 

Nimrod (E1 5c),

The Angel of Mercy (E1 5b)

Edit: The Philistine, High Crag

Ah yes! How could I have forgotten totalitarian? And one of the Dow routes (I think nimrod is possibly a bit overrated but it is 3*). Really want to do banzai but a bit concerned about what I'll find. I've done the awesome top pitch of Angel of mercy and gable crag deserves a shout.

So scratch gimmer string, flat iron and phoenix

Edit - both philistine and gethsemene are fantastic but I suppose there's only room for 1

Gormenghast on Heron Crag definitely deserves to make the cut. I’d drop First Touch personally. Aaros also probably deserves a place, but so does Bludgeon...

I would rate Banzai Pipeline as being the best of the lot - definitely wait for a dry spell though.

Need to do it, forgotten it existed. Is it accessible late summer after birds? 

Yep. Hardly the best of the lakes. 

This is a great thread (hijack) for reminding me of routes to do this summer. I'm finding myself repeating classic stuff because I'm not fit for pushing my grade atm, but there's no need.

I wonder if anyone knows about that original list? 

Drop Red Edge. Long walk in for nothing much.Very disappointing.

Aaros over Blugeon.

Never done Banzai, I have heard it is superb.

Done most of the others and agree on Philistine.

Must be something from Lower Falcon that can be added....Dedication?

Was Deer Bield Buttress one, I wonder?

Quite possibly, I reckon North Crag Eliminate will have been there too.

Yep, open season on the 1st July as far as I’m aware.

Interesting question.

If I get the more important stuff on my "to do" list done, I'll have a look through the guidebooks. I've got all four editions of the Constable select guidebook on the shelf. Since that's pretty much the only select guidebook before the two recent FRCC ones, I guess it's one of them...

You have more important stuff than this?

Certainly the original edition of the Cram/Roper/Eilbeck guide had no mention of E (or tech) grades.

Think it came out at about the same time as E grades were first proposed.

Given some of the suggestions above it seems the Lakes is pretty poorly served by E1s compared to Wales (even compared to just Snowdonia)

The 13 ticklist came from the frcc guides pre 1999,when a whole new galaxy was discovered, in langdale of all places! 

I am missing the red and yellow guides from this period (langdale and gable and pillar). 

9 of the 13 are

Hell's Groove, East butt

Gormenghast, Heron

Totalitarian, Raven Thirlmere (good luck) 

Thirlmere Eliminate, Castle Rock

Nimrod, Dow

Catacomb, Dow

Bleakhow Buttress, Bleakhow

Banzai Pipeline, Great End Crag (again, good luck) 

Praying Mantis, Goat

So just 4 to find and it shouldn't be too difficult. Some of the 13 routes will now be e2, just like some of the routes mentioned in the thread above were hvs then. Grade creep is glacial in its pace when compared with the supernova of star explosion. 

See you tomorrow. 

Obviously there are loads of better e1s in all Wales, but interested in a top 13 in snowdonia. 

They are on the bookshelf as well. If someone else hasn't checked, I'll look when I'm back from the climbing wall.

OK, off the top of my head.....

Cenotaph Corner

Cemetery Gates

The Grooves

The Groove

Nexus 

Plexus

Super Direct

Crucible

Vember

Shrike

Llithrig

Mabinogion

Slape Direct

Hangover

Traverse of Amphitheatre Buttress

Plumbagin

Great Feet

Javlin Blade

You are right in a way as there seem to be fewer absolute belters compared to HVS, E2, E3 or E4

Thanks - hardly done any of those, so wasn't saying the lakes routes are better (other than by being in the lakes). 13 is quite a lot of really classic routes at one grade! 

To be fair there are a couple on there that are still on my notional to do list rather than done as well as some whose grades have changed but with a little research I'm sure I could replace them with equally good routes, I've got nothing from the Rhinogs and very little from the Carneddau or Moelwyns

True but I definitely think it would be easier with E2 or E3. I was thinking about a list of classic E2 in Snowdonia but excluding Cloggy and the Pass but don't won't to derail the thread further (other than to say, in the interest of balance, that Equus might be the best E2 I've done). 

The obvious link up of Intern and Whit's End Direct is about as good at the grade as anything in the rest of the country, imho. Ximenes followed by Gaul on Pillar would get E1 if it wasn't in the Lakes, and I thought it was a bloody brilliant combo. I rate Capella above Arcturus (more balanced) and under-rated routes I think include Columbia at Stonestar and Tarkus on Dow, 3 stars for both for me. 

All very good routes. The original 13 were from the pre 1999 guides, when arcturus was hvs and, had capella been climbed it would most likely have been vs. I agree it is the better of the two routes though. 

Yeah, my first Lakes guide was the old Langdale one. Pitch lengths in feet and no tech grades, just the odd sandbag thrown in. Might not even have had stars, wish I still had it. Ahh, the good old days! - reading the text, which mainly referred to features in terms of adjacent routes, forcing you to read their description as well, then quickly flipping to the crag diagram at the back, to try and marry the info together, and often failing. 

Cemetery Gates and Crucible are both HVS, the "upgrade" to E1 was an error by subsequent guide book editors, among many others - Grim Wall Direct etc

Why good luck on Totalitarian and Banzai? Did Total. last year and found it wonderful and clean!

I was under the impression access to raven crag was very difficult due to felling operations, totalitarian is not a route which stays clean for very long. Banzai is worse. 

Shrike is E2

But Falcon, Barbarian, The Plum, Leg Slip and First Slip are all excellent

Last time I drove past the path of fallen trees appears to of now been felled, I wouldn't think access is as bad now. And I think it stays cleaner than you think, I tried it over a number of times due to rain never quite managed it, But never found it that dirty each time I got on it.

Never done Banzai but hoping too when the crag dries out after all this ruddy rain!

Still desperate for E1 though!

I must of been climbing well I thought it was okay for the grade! Either way must be on every Lakes climbers list!

Must HAVE. Jesus, what is it that makes people think ‘of’ is a verb??

Totaitarian is one of those routes that are always dirty but never filthy somehow.

jcm

This is a nice thread. Grounded & interesting. Thank you!

Last summer after the dry weather the route was fine (still hard crux tho). Access through the felled trees was however traumatic, as was the aftermath of the million ticks. 

I advise approaching as a sea cliff - ab in and avoid the horrors of the approach, including the vertical vegetation at the start of the routes. 

Totaitarian? Jesus, what is it with this sloppy spelling??

It's the curse of the pedant - so frothing with rage about a grammatical misdemeanor that they lose the ability to spell. So tedious to see in threads too, it adds nothing to the debate as far as I'm concerned.

To answer your, probably rhetorical question, is the sound of "must've".

OK back to topic. 

Has anyone identified the missing 4?

I haven't done many E1's in the Lakes, it seems a better location for HVS's and E2's for some reason, maybe just my imagination. Of the ones I've done, I wasn't overly impressed with Bludgeon or Praying Mantis, both great but not brilliant.

I really liked:

Razor Crack

Red Edge

Intern

Totalitarian

Also, I know it doesn't fit the question but I remember the last pitch of Grand Finale at Gimmer as being...memorable, in a good way.

*Misdemeanour*

Got you

Kendal Wall produced an excellent tick list which includes  11 E1’s

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=645

Blame Steinbeck. Generations of schoolkids have been forced to read "Of Mice and Men" but not been made aware of the difference between dialogue in inverted commas (where  "of" is used as a phonetic reresentation of "have") and the correct version.

Authors like McCarthy have compounded the problem by using the same device without the benefit of speech marks.

I really do not understand your point. In the phrase 'Of mice and men' the word of is used in the sense of concerning. If he had called his book 'Concerning Mice and Men' you would possibly understand its import.

So you say

You possibly missed The Philistine as it's not in the graded list in the Buttermere & Eastern Crags guide for some reason but I've still only got to 11 including the other two guidebooks:

1989 Langdale guide - Gimmer String (E1 5b)

1990 Borrowdale guide - Banzai Pipeline (E1 5b), Bleak How Buttress (E2 5c), Praying Mantis (E1 5b)

[N.B. there is also an typo mis-grading Nagasaki Grooves (E4 6b) as E1, but I don't think we'll count that.]

1991 Gable and Pillar guide - none

1992 Buttermere & Eastern Crags guide - The Philistine (E1 5b), Thirlmere Eliminate (E2 5b), Totalitarian (E1 5c)

1994 Dow Duddon & Slate guide - Nimrod (E1 5c), Catacomb (E1 5b)

1996 Scafell Wasdale & Eskdale guide - Hell's Groove (E1 5b),  Gormenghast (E1 5b)

So, we still don't seem to be much closer the definitive 13.

If you're going to criticize people's grammar, don't have a typo/spelling mistake in your next line.

We didn't all get to spend our school days with wild-haired future prime ministers!

Thanks for helping Mark, it was quite some time ago. My memory said 13 but clearly that has drifted.

Great tick list, which made a good summer aim. Not sure how many there are now but it would certainly make for a busy summer. Or perhaps a retirement project. 

Thanks all for your help. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few done this summer!