UKC

Clue, So? (4c) Mingulay

Hi climbed clue so this after and just want to  know who to let know that the lower off karabiners are really worn and need replacing? Just wanting to be safe out there!

Take a look in the mirror.  

Happily replace gear mate just wanted to double check in case there was a group who looked after the hardware 

Two of these...

https://www.s3i.co.uk/8mm-stainless-steel-long-quick-link.html

and two of these...

http://www.upandunder.co.uk/Outdoor/Climbing/Bolts-and-Anchors/P---Round-St...

Jobs a good’un. And you’ll have done your bit for the year.

Stainless steel rings will last longer than aluminium crabs.

Thanks will try and get there if this glorious north wales summer improves long enough to have any dry rock!!

https://metalhardware.co.uk/round-ring-4766

That'd be because the latter aren't load tested - expensive process! Having said that, the average trad climber will have abbed off much worse things....

In reply to Squirreldaddy1:

Usually there's a local bolt fund (N Wales Bolt Fund in this case) you'd donate to, made up of volunteers who will go round and replace all the dodgy stuff crag by crag. However, they only have so much time and money so there's nothing stopping you taking it upon yourself to re-equip the route (or crag!) should you so wish. I'd recommend buying a few mallions to keep in your crag bag, so in future you can just replace them at the time. Personally I don't bother with rings, but that's your call.

well spotted, and almost definitely, urghh!

I suppose it kinda depends on the orientation of the bolt eyes but my experience of “just mallions” on the bolts, is than your rope ends up horribly spiraled.

Of all the lower off solutions I think rings on mallions is by far the best for longevity, replaceability and the most reassuringly secure.

Half sawn-through, corroded, aluminum crabs with a stuck open gate are my least favorite sport lower-off.

Notwithstanding the much good work they do, I wish bolters would stop installing aluminum (or even steel) crabs as “the solution” on “their” route. Rings from the get-go every time.

Fair point, particularly with the narrow & long mallions that most climbers use. I've taken to using short and fat ones, which cause less of an issue. As you say, crabs aren't worth it for anyone unless you're projecting (but then there's better ways...), though I'd argue a seized up steely is more reassuring than a potentially suspect/non-PPE ring from a hardware store (such as that linked above).

My distrust of rings is also fuelled by experiences of homemade SRT potholing hangers and the recent article about non-UIAA gear.

Another issue with maillons is that, unlike a ring, the wear is concentrated in one place (at the bottom). For routes that are not likely to be super popular this is probably not a big issue but it may be worth noting that for this sort of route a round rod belay hanger from Bolt Products can be used without a maillon and is likely to be cheaper than a 316 stainless steel runner hanger plus 316 stainless maillon.

For a popular route, a system with a freely rotating ring is likely to be needed to avoid wear.  Unfortunately this costs more and most bolters in the UK are self financing and need to watch costs. I tend to use Bolt Products belay hangers in the first instance then, if I get support from N Wales bolt fund, replace them with hangers, maillons and rings if the the routes seem likely to be popular.

I understand where you're coming from but: if a route is popular (e.g. the crag warm up) then it'll likely accumulate old alloy krabs as people want the convenience (and safety) of not having to untie at the top.  It just happens - blame the 'user'.   

Replaceable SS krabs make a lot of sense and are generally welcomed by locals.    Good quality ones (e.g. Bolt Products) last a long time in UK conditions even on routes which take hammering in places like Yorkshire.  Its a sensible solution in such cases.  

Some fair points. There will always be exceptions to the rule. My main grip is less with alloy convenience crabs clipped into rings but where alloy crabs have been provided in lieu of rings.