UKC

I'm looking into options as suggested by the title, for a two or three week trip.

The obvious one broadly speaking is the south of France - fast trains from London to Marseille or Toulouse which are not expensive if booked early by the look of it.

I'm less up for anything which will take two days' travel - are there any other high speed direct trains to other craggy parts of Europe that I'm not aware of?

Looking for good quality sport climbing, especially in the high 6s and the 7s, not at busy worn-out crags overlooking ugly suburbs etc. Drove to St. Léger in January last year and it paid off; we had the place to ourselves and it wasn't seeping, but I think we got a bit lucky - unless the sun was on us it was freezing.

Secondary questions, within the wide sweep of the south of France, does anyone have some insight into places that are easy to access by public transport from cities, which have nice affordable accommodation that's open in the winter, and from which the crags are accessible without a car? A lot of specifications there I realise, but anything that ticks even some of the boxes will be of interest.

Thanks.

I did research your second point, though I still haven't got round to actually going. I came up with several crags above Monaco accessible by bus; la Turbie,  Gorbio and also Peillon after a fashion.  I think you have to approach that place round the back, off the bus route to  somewhere then there's the Toulon crags. Some of those may need a cab but many are near the bus or telepherique. I feel sure that some of the Calanques are not far from Marseille bus routes. All these urban transport systems are easy to find online.  Saint Jeannet I'd so close to Nice that I guess it'll have buses though I don't know. There is a good bus service east from Aix en Provence which must give access to the length of Saint Victoire. I would love to visit all of these places, in fact I bought the local Toulon guide as well as Rockfax. Just haven't got round to it. Hope this helps.Roger

Can confirm that the Aix bus does run really regularly all day and into evening along whole south flank of Mt Saint Victoire. 

A no fly trip. Brill. 

The victoira is really great if you love slabs, and Aix is a beautiful city if not cheap. In Marseille, it pays to have accommodation in the south of the city, where you will have direct bus services to access points at Luminy, Sormiou, Morgiou and Les Goudes. In the Callanques, the local guides are reasonably detailed concerning the orientation of the crag and susceptability of crags to the Mistral... This is vital information. Difficult to beat the Calanques for variety and landscape. 

Thanks for the replies...

I would visit St Victoire sometime but wouldn't be keen to spend a whole trip there.

Regarding the Calanques, I've been put off previously by Rockfax's emphasis on car crime, 'harrowing' drives through the banlieues of Marseilles, and proximity to the city's weekend crowds. For me spending time and exploring an attractive area is of equal importance to the quality of the climbing - though admittedly I'm fussy about that too. All that considered, is Calanques likely to be up my street? Likewise stuff near Toulon or Monaco?

Anyone done midwinter in the Ariege? Is it a bit too high? I figure fast train to Toulouse, then another down to Tarason-sur-Ariege or somewhere, but it looks like the crags are perhaps too spread out for it to really work without a vehicle?

What I suspect we might end up doing is hiring a car in one of the cities, for flexibility. Or just the long drive, again...

Ariège is often fantastic in winter, the valley crags (which is most single-pitch stuff) aren't high at all (maybe 400-800m), get lots of sun and mostly get hardly any wind at all. Climbing and belaying shirtless at some crags in midwinter is pretty much the norm.

The problem is that, even though you'll be fine climbing on most days and might even see pretty much wall to wall sunshine for two weeks, when a winter storm is around and it's cold and cloudy then climbing can get pretty unpleasant. These periods generally will only last a few days before another nice spell but from time to time will last longer, and if that coincides with your trip dates you're unlikely to be a happy bunny. If you do plan a midwinter Ariège trip it'd be wise to consider skiing or other fallback options if you end up being particularly unlucky with the weather.

Depending on where you're staying there may be enough to go at on foot (some of our guests rent bikes from us to increase their choice) but a car will make a big difference to your available options.

Thanks John, that's useful. Are you allowed to tell me about your accommodation or is that advertising?

Do you know if the area is any more prone to the kind of winter storms that you mention than say Provence?

There should be all you need to know about our place on our website at chezarran.com

I'm not really qualified to compare with Provence as I don't think I've ever been there in proper midwinter. Some of the more southerly Provence crags will be a tad lower so are likely to be 2 or 3 degrees warmer, but on the other hand most of the crags there are likely to catch more wind. Overall I suspect that any bad weather may be likely to hang around a little longer in Ariège than in coastal Provence but that's just a guess and I have nothing to back that up with.

I'm not convinced of your calanques argument. Once you drop across the ridge, the city is lightyears away, and you start your exploration of a myriad of sectors. And it's reasonably easy to have the sector to yourself.

And car crime should not really be a problem without a car. 

Seconded. I've spent time in both Marseille and the Calanques (in a car and a van) and found the setting / lack of crowds incredible. Plus, it's big enough so that if a place is busy, you can just move on. 

Also, this whole 'car crime' thing comes up a lot, and it always frustrates me. We neither saw or experienced anything close to an issue. Seems a shame to discount somewhere so beautiful on the grounds of a rumour. 

It's not an argument, it's a question - I haven't been!

I have to confess I have little experience of the practicalities, but I feel optimistic that Buoux would fit the bill - it can't be that difficult to get to Apt from a main line (and therefore where in the opposite direction city visits would be possible), the area is beautiful, etc etc. The only bit I'm less confident on really would be the last leg to the crag itself.

In terms of places I've been in winter and found good conditions, the Seynes/Russian/Claret combo was good but I think you would need a car at the far end especially to do several...

If cost is a factor then have a look at Paris to Latour-de-Carol - good explanation here https://www.seat61.com/lunea.htm. Since you can do the long bit as a night train with this method it might extend your range a bit without feeling like two full days traveling -  i.e. you could hire a car in Toulouse or LdC then the northern Lleida crags aren't far. Of course if you hate sleepers then it could leave you knackered...

Interesting, thanks for that.

I'm kind of coming round to the idea that either taking or hiring a car is probably best for flexibility, don't much want to be stuck in bad weather somewhere in the middle of winter.

Having been to Buoux in the spring, I suspect in winter it's a bit like St Leger - good when the sun is out but very cold when it dips.

Probably true of most places even in southern Europe over winter - it's the sun that props the temperature up. I imagine the afternoon-shade sectors at Buoux would be pretty cold once the sun left!!!

My experience of the Costa Blanca and some other Spanish venues is that, while temperatures are usually tolerable in the sun (unlike in spring and autumn), temperatures are generally still better for climbing in the shade.

I went to El Chorro by train, but only from Malaga after flying in. Haven't looked into the whole journey, but that leg at least was pretty straightforward (notwithstanding hoofing a load of gear on foot up the hill to The Olive Branch).

Train to Genoa then ferry to Sicily, train to Toulon and ferry to Corsica  or to Marseille and to Corsica and Sardinia.