UKC

Given the homicidal, selfish and uncaring nature of the driving public, is there a place for crossings that basically work on the principles of consent and consideration? The only crossings that seem to be respected are traffic light controlled, backed up by cameras.

And a big "high" to the Uber driver that made me jump for my life this evening. Second time this week.

And the same goes for "advisory" 20mph speed limits. 

They work ok where I live. In fact anywhere I go really.

86% of the public ignore the 20mph limit in Embra.

London's zebra crossings seem to be surprisingly well respected by drivers. More pedestrians than not don't make any gesture of thanks, though, which peeves me more than it needs to

I feel similar.  I saw 3 cars totally ignore a pedestrian at a crossing Thursday.  

I of course stopped and tried to give us drivers back some credibility.  

Go to Rome for Ultimate Zebra Crossing Roulette!

The custom there is that as a pedestrian you pause until there's a slight gap in the stream of traffic and then step out looking straight ahead and ignoring any cars that look like they might not stop. If you catch the driver's eye, the driver knows you've seen him and the onus is on you to keep yourself safe; if you haven't seen him he'll stop. An element of 'chicken'. In reality you walk onto the crossing looking straight ahead but keeping half an eye out for the 'rogue' driver who clearly doesn't want to stop.

Has always worked ok for me

Wandering Rome on foot is a lot less stressful than doing it in Naples! 

Are you in Tehran by any chance?
youtube.com/watch?v=KieZ1uBfrLg&

Wow! 

I find people are very pro-active about stopping for them here, sometimes too much! When I pause somewhere in the vicinity of one (not at one!) for the dog to pee or sniff, cars stop. There's one at the end of a cycle path which passes my house. I use the cycle path as far as the road and then join the traffic. In order to not make traffic stop for me, I have to stop WAY back until there is a gap! 

When I stop for one on the bike, people look a little embarrassed that I stopped for them and are quite apologetic, despite me riding on the road so clearly marking myself as "vehicle"!

It probably varies a lot depending on how busy your roads are

I know it's easy to play crossing oneupmanship but that really does look pretty benign compared to crossing Cairo roads in the vicinity of Tahrir square, where there are no zebras even to act as a visual cue and the traffic appeared to be going at least twice as fast.

On the other hand, here in Ariège people routinely stop for pedestrians even before they've stepped off the kerb, and many seem to wander onto zebras looking only at their phone screen, apparently confident that further concern for one's own life and limb isn't necessary.

Easy answer to this I’ve been banging on about it for too long 

better lighting the BB is no longer fit for purpose. Then enforce with a camera 

oh and consider a user switch to turn lights on  

Some of the ones in the centre of town are a bit dodgy.  Too many tourists in rental cars not totally sure of the rules and minicabs that know the rules and don't care.

There is a real disparity between different people. Over 20 mph in Bristol - expect points / re-education. Over 20 in Brighton - expect road rage and maniacal overtaking in residential streets! I never heard of anyone being caught in Brighton and it shows.

I think that 86% figure is from a DfT UK-wide study dated November 2018 as reported here: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-6363507/Government-study-r...

AFAIK no figures have been published for levels of compliance with the 20mph limits in Edinburgh.  The only stats I've seen have related to the amount by which average speeds on given streets have fallen.  The report presented to the council's Transport and Environment Committee in October last year stated that surveys on 150 streets where concerns were raised about compliance show an average speed of 21.5mph. (FWIW, that's within the ACPO guidelines for speed limit enforcement.)

https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s9492/Item%207.3%20-%20Evaluat...

I found that when near the Vatican using nuns as "cover" when crossing worked. Running over a nun is seemingly the only real traffic offence in Italy.

That's pariculary impressive as nuns must be pretty much invisible when on a zebra crossing.

Isn't it easier to teach people to drive correctly and to pay attention and be situationally aware behind the wheel .

I'd personally give then a few strikes before making them resit a test.

In the mid 90's I found myself in Cairo, I just could not cross the street. Then a friendly local gave me a great tip - don't look, just step out and walk straight and steady, don't stop don't run, keep on not looking. Apparently any running or stopping throws out the drivers calculations. It felt like the Bridge of Faith from Indiana Jones, but it worked very well and eventually it got almost a bit addictive and I found myself gratuitously zigzagging about downtown Cairo revelling in my Charlton Heston as Moses power to part the Red Sea.

I often make the gesture of thanks for respecting my right of way. I shouldn't feel I need to. I started doing it when respect for crossings became something that could no longer be taken for granted.

In Manchester, zebra crossing appear to be at the discretion of the driver, they certainly have no idea of Rule 107 of the highway code, 20mph are rarely adheared to* and a red traffic light appears to no mean, "Only four more cars can cross this junction".

*If i'm cycling at ~20mph I'm always overtaken, if I've driving at 20mph I get honked, shouted at and often overtaken.

That's because a high proportion of drivers in Manchester never actually took lessons or sat a driving test. Those who do possess a driving licence got a friend or relative to sit the test for them, which is a bit bonkers because that's likely to cost more than actually doing it the right way:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48909786

 The report you have cited from the British broadcasting Corporation Scotland does not appear to mention Manchester 

 Kinlochleven the longest test route in the United Kingdom  when it had a test centre 

It doesn't need to mention Manchester - just go for a drive around the city or any of the satellite mill towns and you'll soon realise that a fair number of drivers don't actually know how to drive.  I'm told the worst place in Britain is Bradford, though I haven't driven there for about 20 years.

 Teach people to drive correctly 

 If only we did teach people correctly if only the instructors were capable of driving properly if only the instructors were capable of imparting some knowledge of the car  if as all teachers they were more interested in teaching instead of schooling for examinations  if if if 

 I have driven and not been aware of movement until almost too late or it has passed I have driven past  pedestrians in dark clothing  on a wet rainy night with steamed up windows   extra lighting  would give more protection and more warning to vehicles 

 The amount of general lighting on the road  and roadside  streetlamps  shopfronts  has  increased  .better or at least stronger  car headlamps  have meant that  B Beacons have faded into a little more than a glow 

  Based upon a report published in a different country Scotland 

 Your experience from 20 years ago and a town in a different  County some miles away you are able to quantify and comment about drivers in Manchester I want you as my next expert witness 

Have you ever considered stopping and wiping the windows so that they're not steamed up? 

....more to the point, keeping the ventilation fan permanently on 1 with a bit of warmth added so as to keep your car dry inside and prevent misting? You can even run the AC to dry the incoming air and add a bit of warmth by turning up the heater. 

It's another common fault with a minority of the drivers around Manchester who don't seem to have learned the bit about keeping your windows clear for safe vision. You'll see them huddled behind the wheel, frozen, wearing a coat and futiley wiping a small patch in front of them with the back of a hand.

I don't feel that people need to thank me for doing what I am legally obliged to do anyway - in the same way that I don't expect other drivers to thank me for stopping at a red light. Having said that, I quite often do make eye contact or wave a thanks if someone has stopped to let me across a crossing.

No 🙄

It generally only irritates me when I'm on my bike, actually. When driving I don't really mind, for some reason - maybe because one is sort of isolated anyway, and probably also because it takes no effort on my part, nor am I at physical risk