UKC

As one of the 'vulnerable groups' (OAP. chronic heart disease, asthma since childhood). I have to say thanks for your concern. However, talking to my contemporaries I have found that neither I nor the majority of my friends/contemporaries are really that concerned about Covid 19

I have read criticism that 'boomers' are not that bothered about the virus. This is true.

The thing that may come as a surprise to younger readers is that after 70 life is pretty sh1t. My life, and that of most of my contemporaries, is lived against a background of perpetual low level discomfort, punctuated by periods of severe discomfort and the occasional bout of severe pain.

This is despite the fact that I am one of the healthier specimens 'for my age' (God, but I hate those three words) still leading 6b/c and the occasional 7a I dread to think how sh1t most 70-yr-olds must feel as they hobble round on sticks

Neither I, nor my contemporaries are planning to put our heads in the gas oven just yet but when it comes to survival at all costs we really are just not that bothered. We know that our future is mostly behind us and that so far as our health is concerned, in general terms, this year is worse than last year but better than next.

So, as one of my friends said, the best we can hope for is to get Covid 19 early and then cash in on those cheap cruises they cannot sell.

They real thing we dread are those do-gooding pricks who will demand we be kept alive when we just want to die.

CBD and THC, perhaps some mushrooms or even just plain LSD or Iowaska. Its probably time to free your mind.

Your post exactly corresponds with the opinions of my own parents. I really hope that in twenty years time I can lay claim to such clear sighted composure.

True, that is some crazy stuff. But you really got try Mississippirap and Alabamareggae.

Shit happens mate but a worthy post.  I sit here in Kernow, having travelled the world to find my wife has metaphoricaly battened down the hatches with regard to her 70+ parents and our children (18+) and can but feel that a storm is coming , of varying effect.

You have the same right to a pleasant drift into the sunset as the rest of us so don't write youselves of.f Slow and steady wins the race, every breath counts. A walk on the cliffs today revealed skylarks really going for it, Oystercatchers on the beach and gulls and buzzards soaring on the wind. It's all still out there - look forward to meeting you on the cliff path.

I recall my father-in-law telling me that getting old is shit and involves an accumulation of physical aches etc. And he's well off and moderately fit. Been a climber, now a hill and long distance path walker.

At nearly 50 myself I really only so far have a dodgy left shoulder, though my left ankle and right knee, due to padt accidents, are potential arthritis spots in future. A part of my mind is always aware of his words.

I'm glad you're at peace with it and sorry your life isn't very good any more.

At work, one of the web team (late twenties, severe asthma) isn't quite ready for her life to end just yet, and one of the purchase ledger clerks (mid thirties, type 1 diabetes) is hoping to at least hang on until her son (4, also type 1 diabetes) grows up, and also fairly keen that he gets the chance to.

I've heard there are also people who are 70+ and not yet done with things.

And there's also the exciting possibility of a new, potentially less age-discriminating, variant of the virus popping up over the coming months.

So, yeah, I'm glad you're not too stressed -but please do still try to follow official advice where possible and not spread it around too much, if you can help it...

Well said!

It's also, even for older people, not just about dying sooner but also in less discomfort. My father won't be with us long anyway now, but he wants to die at home and with sufficient pain relief to be reasonably comfortable and have his family around him. This sounds reasonable to me. If he dies of Covid-19, he will die in hospital, in much more pain and discomfort and the family may not be allowed in due to infection risk. Surely everyone wants the easiest death possible?

Rage against the dying if the light

That's an interesting post. If you can lead those grades  I would think that your glass is still well over half full. As someone who had an extra stair rail fitted yesterday and who has resigned himself to using a walking stick every time I go out of the door I can agree with much of what you have said, though, apart from your last five words.

Well I’m not ready to pop off yet, I’ve still got my 8b project to send. Well, when I say 8b... it might as well be

That was my thought as well. 

Not mine. My mum (89 and with considerable mobility issues) told me the other day that she hoped that they would still be able to get their Tesco food delivery, stick it in the campervan and head for the hills as part of their (for the moment self-imposed) social isolation. That is once my dad has recovered from his broken leg and able to drive. I find their attitude quite inspiring!

6b?

My Mum had issues and she took a conscious decision to call it a day when she was 93. She just stopped eating; it was as calm and peaceful way to go as you could imagine, and she was particularly content to have taken control of her life one last time. Dad was more a 'rage against the dying of the light' type, he didn't get going old at all. He bought himself a chainsaw for his 90th birthday, and booked flights a year in advance to see his older brother in Canada a few years later... (Caught them, too.) 

Last 5? The UKC grammar pedants will already be signing your death warrant for finishing a sentence with a "when".

Can I have your gear?

Mine aren't exactly putting g out the welcome mat for the grim reaper. Dad (80 on Tuesday) only quit his part time job a couple of months ago. Mum (79 in April) still does voluntary work two days a week. Both are relatively heathy and still very much interested in carrying on living. What I was trying to get across is that they're well aware that they aren't going to live forever, that stroke or other life limiting event could strike any day, but aren't letting the inevitable frighten them.  

Noticed my first frogspawn of the year yesterday, blackthorn in fresh green leaves, bluebell spouting cannot wait for the first cuckoo how I love this time of year.

As climbers, runners or bikers, we all take risks but all love life so let's love it while it lasts.

I didn't realise that a sentence like "Tell me when" was wrong.

Totally agree.

'The days are getting shorter... but there is more magic.'  (Walter de la Mare. I believe he wrote those words when he was dying.)

Mick

Strangely the grandkids are fine with death and will occasionally come out with things like 'When you die, grandad...' while their middle aged parents are horrified even discussing the practicalities such as where to find the Will. I sometimes wonder if they see me as their last bulwark against their own deaths. While I'm still here it can't be their turn yet perhaps. Whatever.

So I guess that what I saying is that I would rather be alive than dead but there are limits to what I am prepared to give up to avoid dying so  don't fret unduly about us oldies.

As John Steinbeck wrote: "I am not willing to trade quality for quantity.... I see too many men delay their exits with a sickly slow reluctance to leave the stage. It's bad theatre as well as bad living.'

You should be in politics

Tell me why 

Can't say I am ready for the mortality bit now that it is looming large. Out in Madeira on walking holiday, I'm 67 and wife 69 but she managed over 3000ft of ascent with the first 2000ft straight up with her daysack, well under schedule. So there is life in us yet and not quite prepared to turn up our toes .

Now sh*t hit the fan and told to get home as fast as possible by any means, or we are stuck here for???? No virus here in Madeira, but can't stay, all a bit of a p*sser and have to try and avoid the virus when we land and try to get home.

Because you’d fit right in ? 😃

The Korean figures for fatalities (20 mins 40s in to this  youtube.com/watch?v=lGHZSwj1FpI& ) show ages ranging from 30 upwards but mainly 60 upwards and 50% more MEN than women. This is in spite of more women being infected than men. 

Now although the South Korean situation is heavily influenced by the Shincheonji group in Daegu, personally, I am taking on board the age and gender information. No front line activity for me. 

Off out for a run in a minute so I'm fit to run away from handshaking Tories and kissy metropolitans. 

This is quite sad to read. My father in law became very depressed when his health declined and his wife died. He was on medication for pain which I don’t think helped. 
 

Look after yourself old folks, you are loved and needed. You’re an asset to society. 

I’m 50 myself. I’m ready for it if it comes. My children are old enough to stand on their own two feet. No regrets. Or very few. 
 

I don’t particularly want to go just yet though. 

Sounds like you're calling me a liar.......

If you're interested, the mortality risk factors appear to be (in descending order):

Older age, male, hypertension, coronary artery disease, diabetes

50? You're barely getting started...

I hope that everyone in this thread is still around in a few months with approximately the same level of health as they have now. My big fear is that any lock down might prevent us getting outside and keeping healthy even if it has no impact on others. Recreational cycling, for example, seems, according to Twitter, to have been prohibited in both Spain and Italy.

Stay safe and take sensible precautions everyone.

I emailed my mum earlier today, I think she's been reflecting on the virus, not sure if I said anything useful but finished with

" we'll have a nation without wisdom when it's over."

Your post kind of proves that losing the elders will leave an impoverished world behind.

That’s a concern of mine, I can understand lockdown if you live in an urban apartment block, I live in snowdonia and was discussing with the kids getting in the hills, maybe an overnight camping trip and some cycling once the inevitable school closures happen, all things I would see as maintaining social isolation when there is open country side across the street from me. Is this likely to be restricted and what are people’s thoughts about those lucky enough to be in the country side breaking restrictions that are mainly aimed at urban dwellers and restricting social contact.

My parents (in their 80s), along with their entire bowls club it appears, echo your opinion.

For years now, my dad has been telling me that: "they call pneumonia 'old man's comfort'".

Another of his truisms is that "getting old is something that happens in steps". In the sense that it's not linear. At 56, I wonder if I'm not experiencing what he means, as I've been running regularly for years, and the other day I got a weird hip pain and had to hobble 2 miles home...am I facing the abrupt prospect that that was the last time I'll ever run? 

'am I facing the abrupt prospect that that was the last time I'll ever run? '

Almost certainly not - I'm 66 and if I've noticed anything it is that deterioration isn't necessary linear, in fact it's not even one directional. Overall I must be less fit than I was 10 years ago but I certainly had health issues then which I don't have now. 

You honestly believe the over 60's have a monopoly on wisdom?

Abso-f*cking-lutely!

yes, I'd say it begins at 62

before that age you should always go somewhere escorted by someone of age

The situation we're in has been explored in science fiction, its very bizarre to be living in it. Logan's run is my favourite of the genre. I think youth can have intelligence but not wisdom. I am generalising and there are obvious exceptions- I wouldn't say that Trump has an ounce of wisdom, but we will be worse off without old people.

It's not going to happen as long as I'm still around!

Yeah, nor do I.

A young relative of mine died this January, at age 22. A tragic loss. By 50, I would hope that people haven't delayed living. As discussed at some point during the funeral weekend, I'm pretty happy with what I've done to date: glorious summit camps, hill days, drunken nights, wonderful gigs, clubbing & after parties in friend's flats, two much loved dogs, walking with them on wind swept beaches, my wife (this list is in no particular order!), feeding wild birds, tree climbing, the rare f7a boulder, chocolate fondant with custard, a well poured Guinness...though I've still to learn to roller blade

I wonder whether these events will slightly rejig our understanding of what death is - I was chatting to some ICU doctors about this the other day...

A huge proportion of the people currently dying from coronavirus were by any reasonable standard in the process of dying anyway with rapidly decreasing standards of living and increasing pain and discomfort. Over the past 50 years we've moved to a state where we don't acknowledge that death is rarely an entirely binary thing, rather life's eroded to the point where preserving it does more harm than good. Surgeons will continue to intervene to extend life by a few months at the expense of those months being spent in hospital, in pain. Patients with severe dementia have serious medical interventions which they can never understand.

The Coronavirus outbreak seems to throw that into sharp relief where patients who have been sustained beyond what their body can maintain are susceptible in the extreme.

Where patients have reached that part of their life where the cycle of hospital visits and interventions starts to accelerate, maybe we'll start to think of how we can let them end their lives with dignity (if that's what they want) rather how we can keep them propped up for longer.

/shrugs, not apropos of anyone on this thread, just some maudlin pontificating whilst i sit in isolation with my temperature and cough...

56? In my running club  a lot of us did the vitality big half marathon, one of us in the male 70-74 category ran a sub 2 hour and one woman in her late 60's 'ran it even faster.

You have reminded me of a typical medical conundrum about this virus.

It's constantly being emphasised that mot (all?) victims had 'other' health issues, i.e. they were on their way out. If someone is dying of cancer say, then they catch Covid 19 and die because of their reduced immunity … what did they die of? Maybe the Covid19 was just the last straw and they were going to shuffle off this mortal coil in a few weeks anyway?

That was actually the starting point for our conversation. It's interesting how many cases are described as dying "after testing positive for coronavirus" or words to that effect. It's likely to be just one of many causes.

 I've had a couple of very minor unrelated health "scares".  Covid 19 is a real potential danger and the constant media output raised it above the level of just being academic but I'm carrying on much as normal. When chatting with other (healthy) "oldies" we all seem pretty phlegmatic and treat the fuss as a bit of a joke, rather resentful  of any possible lockdown of seniors. I do worry about my wife who is not as fit as I, and my son who's only 30 but would probably have to look after himself if ill. It seems mainly the younger people who are doing the panic shopping even though they're at less risk, but I suppose they often have families including older parents to consider. I'm glad I don't have to worry about my Mum any longer....she was in a nursing home with an awful quality of life. So far I know nobody who knows anyone who has had the disease, if this changed I might take things more seriously.

But what about HOW they die. My dad is dying, he will die soon. He opted for no chemo because he wanted a good quality of life for as long as possible and chemo wasn't going to extend his life for long. He has care in place to die at home with good pain relief, peacefully. If he gets the virus he will have fevers, a cough which he won't have the strength for and will almost certainly need hospital care to be even close to comfortable. Any care he gets now is palliative, but for him it's the difference between palliative care at home or palliative care in hospital.

Sorry for your situation and what in hindsight was my inappropriately flippant comment. I was just trying to get a 'true' handle on how deadly this virus is; but that doesn't take away from the implications such as you describe, which I suppose I hadn't really considered.  

No worries. It's easy to be flippant when you don't have a direct connection to associate it with. He's only 65, so by no means elderly and was very fit and healthy before this, so I guess it's a sobering lesson in not assuming anything about your health etc as you can't see what it going on inside you!

I think my own Dad is similar to your's, he somewhat blinked in surprise at being 'old' when he turned 70, and still grumbles at 73 about people his age being called 'old', he doesn't see it as relevant at all. I aim to follow his path after reading in New Scientist about how large a part one's thoughts play in the speed we age at, with denial and optimism slowing it down essentially, relative to 'I'm old and aging and can't do that now' thoughts.

Well I sincerely hope the denial and optimism work a lot better for you than they are doing for me at the moment ; fourth MRI scan on my spine since Christmas tomorrow. 

When the GP asks you to perform certain movements  and you can't, it isn't usually because you feel a bit negative: it's because your joints and muscles will not physically perform the function.

I'm sorry to hear that, I guess that could be partly down to the drystone walling you used to do? I sometimes muse that my dodgy climber's elbows have potentially saved my own back in the longer run, from me not being able to do certain physically challenging things as I would have done with healthier ones, since I've always liked to 'get stuck in'. It's funny how things can turn out. 

Edit: The thing I read in New Scientist went as far as saying that 2 people can be genetically identical, and their thinking can make the difference, please don't shoot the messenger, I'm just going on what I read.

Thanks. I'll make sure I'm not wearing my negative waves hat when I go into the tunnel tomorrow

...but me 'ip 'urts!

I hope you have some luck with the medical staff and back mobility.