UKC

I have seen snoring cause some pretty nasty confrontations in huts. I sometimes wonder if snoring is considered a by product of being overweight which is also frowned upon by the climbing community.

Apparently I rarely snore, and if so very gently.

Personally snoring does not bother me and I am a light sleeper, if I wake up and hear snoring, I think it must be safe and drift back to sleep.

Imho if people cannot tolerate snoring, then they should either purchase earplugs or consider the possibility that sleeping in a climbing hut is not for them.

French huts are particularly bad. Loud snoring, arse scratching, farting, swearing and belching. And when the blokes arrive it gets even worse.

I may have made this joke before but what the hell we all need cheering up

Al

I'm not convinced about its connection with weight. I'm overweight now but even when I climbed and ran a lot with a BMI in the low twenties I snored so loudly that people on campsites used to complain . And huts, obviously. And most embarrassingly in the Hotel Du Pic D'Anie in Lescun when someone in the next room kept knocking on the wall to remonstrate with me.

I hate you and everyone of your Ilk. You should be forced to perpetually self isolate for the good of society.

I've never had a problem, even in rooms where I get told in the morning that some fecker was snoring like a 2 stroke engine I sleep right through it.

"Meaty base guitar" is the best description so far of my snoring, and one morning pre-lockdown when my girlfriend was staying over I mysteriously woke up with a pillow over my face................

Not remotely overweight though.

I've heard some pretty loud rounds of snoring in CC huts, the back room at Ynys, good God! It's fine as long as you don't wake up at 3 in the morning...

Snoring isn't related to weight in my experience.  Last hut I was in (dorm of 18) at least 15 people snored and some of them were built like bean poles and none of them would be considered fat on the highsstreet.  Drinking, however, definitely makes it worse.

What I can't fathom is why snorers like to synchronise so much - a small snore here is answered with a little rattle there and an extra appreciative wheeze in the corner which eventually this builds and builds to a massive crescendo where every snorer belts out their biggest tooth rattling honk, then there is a anxious long pause while none of them breathes at all and then it settles down to a little rattles here and there before building yet again to another massive crescendo 15 minutes later.

I once had a cat that snored along with others making a sound like a set of deflating bagpipes with each snore.

TBH though the worst snoring experiences I've had have been in campsites next to pubs.  Literally loud enough to rattle pots and pans from across the field and completely oblivious to the loud protests from around the camp.

I was once so moved by the synchronised snoring phenomenon that I made a poem about it:

AUBADE

WMC Hut, Deniolen

blackbird and robin

swap leads in hot summer dark

scratching at my eyes

REM segues into DOMS –

yesterday’s crag and pub deeds

announcing themselves

too loud at this hour:

resigned to some consciousness

I grip my bed tight –

the fusty dorm shakes

as synchronized snoring teams

perform their routines:

seismic detectors

in Bangor begin to bleep,

old volcanoes stir –

North Wales’ fiery ring

gives a fearful sphincter twitch

until some sharp kicks

jolt all off their backs

and tectonic plates relax;

in silence at last

I’m free to conduct

a dawn chorus of my own:

bass muscle spasm,

tenor tendon tweak

and the soaring soprano

of hungover head

I think that's basically what the bloke in the French hotel was shouting through the wall. 

We've all slept underneath the bunk of the guy that snores so badly the beds rattle. I would like to see a snoring isolation room in huts so all the normal people don't have to deal with it. 

When camping, it's not so much the snorers but the amorous couples that keep you awake. I still remember a night in the 70's in Cornwall when a couple at the far side of the field kept everyone awake for what seemed like hours. The next morning all of the wives/girlfriends were up early, sitting outside of their tents to see just who was this stud.

What you've described sounds suspiciously like sleep apnea.

Ah yes, the "Alpine hut lullaby".

It's even worse because of the high altitude or poor acclimatisation. I just bring ear plugs and hope others do the same, in case I'm the guilty party.

The worst case I encountered was right around sea level though, on an overnight train to the High Tatras. The random bloke in our sleeping compartment either had a really bad case of sleep apnea or a lot of beers (possibly both). It was impossible to sleep even with the plugs. It made me almost seriously consider my ice axes (just joking)

I'm not overweight but I snore, and apparently always have.

All I can say is I don't do it on purpose, and if I can I will sleep in a tent rather than disturb people in a hut. Not very feasible in the Alps though.

Height, uncomfortable sleeping positions in the narrow bunks, and of course alcohol all contribute to snoring. However, this is not really breaking news. Going to an alpine hut without earplugs is a grade one amateur mistake.

CB

I only snore occasionally but it's definitely when I'm on my back, so my wife says. So I sleep on my side when possible. I always take earplugs to huts or camping & would expect others to, but when the bunk vibrates it pretty annoying. I have noticed wine drinkers seem to be worst!

Both sides need to be more considerate. If you're very sensitive to noise then taking earplugs or camping outside is best. But conversely, if you know you're a loud snorer I think it's pretty antisocial to inflict that on others in communal accommodation (assuming there's a camping option available, obviously this isn't always possible), especially when you then neck a load of booze and make it worse.

My other half gets really grumpy about it so we generally camp when we stay at the CC huts, unless it's really cold. I'm usually a deep sleeper so it doesn't often bother me but I struggle to get to sleep once the snoring has started so I've ended up kipping of the sofas in Grange a few times.

Possibly same campsite, St Just, but 80s. Eventually surrounding tents joined in with a chorus of "Yes, Yes, Yes....". Seemed to do the trick (shame for the young lovers, though).

Two best worst snoring/hut tales...

Me and some now rather ancient mates have been doing bi-annual trips to N Wales,  the Lakes or Scotland for 20yrs plus now. One of our party is referred to as Uncle Bob, or Porridge Bob. Long story. Bob is though and ear shattering loud snorer, you know, the sort you want to kill by around 0300, regardless of how long the murder sentence would be. One lovely evening was spent in Catbells camping barn conversing with a really friendly German couple. After a very loud night of Bob on top form they refused to even look at us, never mind speak to us in the morning.  Pity. We always booked the accommodation for our exclusive use after that.

Other memorable one was a trip for 8 of us to N Wales staying at the "old" Bryn Dinas, which was a series of sheds for sleeping, showering and cooking in. After a particularly good evening in the cook shed consuming too much curry and beer we adjourned to the 8 berth shed. Anyone remember the camp fire sketch in Blazing Saddles? Well we did the bunk beds in a shed version and I honestly thought the roof would come off at one stage. Happy days.

I think your response was the best. I was on an expedition where I managed to get a tent to myself, except for the last night. No sleep because of the snorer I had to share with, then up early for 8 hours in deep snow. Exhausting!

But also, climbers who waltz up late, chat, laugh, decide to have a beer or three (Arapikes is terrible for this), or climbers who set their alarms for a 2:30 am start, and chat as they dress.  The French and lItalians seem prone to this, in refuges.

As I got older I started to snore badly, especially lying on my back. Try to stay isolated in huts or with other snorers. Sometimes use room theoretically reserved for owning club if its empty. I'm certainly not fat. However I think sleep apnoea is commonly linked with obesity.

I do do feel quite aggrieved when I'm wide awake and hear someone whispering that the bloody snorer is "oldie".

I was staying at the bunkhouse at Inchree about 25 years ago, when I awoke to find myself buried under a pile of boots.

II would like to see a snoring isolation room in huts

A club I once belonged to had an informal rule that the snorers used the attic bunkroom. They knew who they were.

I once spent a night on the tiny campsite at Wasdale Head where someone was snoring for England. Eventually, about 3am someone shouted "F*CKING SHUT UP!!". This had no noticeable effect at the time,  but he and his partner packed up very early the next morning and left before anyone else was.up

A couple of stories: back in '94 or '95 a buddy and I skied the Haute Route. You tend to shadow other skiers and see them at different huts along the route and there was a couple, he a pro photographer and she a champion Scottish skier named Isla-somebody who were using next year's Salomon gear and were shooting pictures for the catalogue - somebody on here will know their names. We ended up in the hut above Verbier where the guardian was entertaining the mayor of Verbier and three of his buddies, all four of them rotund un-athletic red-faced men who enjoyed a long boozy meal in one corner of the dining room. I thought they looked like snorers and was glad we weren't allocated the same dorm. The next morning at breakfast there were our four friends, hale and hearty, tucking into a big cooked breakast when the photgrapher and his friend appeared looking distinctly bleary. The conversation went something like:

"Good morning Gentlemen, we hope you slept well!"

"Ach, ja, guten tag, all ist gut!" (sorry I don't do German)

"Yes I think you gentlemen all slept well but you do seem to have a little TROUBLE WITH THE NOSES!" (Pointing to his nose)

"Ja ja, gut, gut!" chortle chortle. 

The poor photographer and Isla hadn't slept a wink thanks to the cannonade of Swiss snoring resonating around the small room.  I felt genuinely sorry for them.

Much more recently I got marooned at Nairobbery airport when Kenya Airways decided to postpone their evening flight to Paris because Paris is often foggy in the mornings and the crew weren't accredited to land in fog. Some passengers allowed themselves to be carted off to a poxy hotel in the city, which turned out to be a nightmare, while the rest of us bedded down on the couches in the Simba lounge. At one end of the lounge there's a quiet room with recliners so I thought I'd give that a try but unfortunately there was an African man about the size and shape of a bull walrus fast asleep on the floor at the far end, snoring louder than a Dreamliner on full throttle, really spectacularly loud. That explained why the room was empty; I tried to sleep with earphones but even loud music couldn't cover the noise. As the night wore on I was treated to a succession of passengers from different nations opening the door, recoiling in shock with expressions like "Jesus!"  "Mein Gott!"  and "Eh, merde!" and leaving the room. In the end I gave up and bedded down on a row of footstools, waking up surrounded by serious-looking Kenyan business people staring at me over their morning coffees. No sign of the walrus though. Yes, snoring is the main reason why I avoid huts and YHAs nowadays; I'd rather be outdoors in my tent well away from other people.

I suppose if you don't snore it's difficult to put yourself in the other person's shoes. i've always had a variety of tents but the reason I've taken to sleeping in the car ( as well as erecting the tent) is precisely because of the snoring. Sometimes people react as if you're actually doing it on purpose, or with some callous disregard, the same as if you were sitting around till three am with your mates tossing back cans of lager and chewing the fat very loudly.

It is, actually, mortifying the be the subject of so many people's disapproval. When you've got it bad, lying on your side or even on your front  doesn't stop it.

I look back very fondly to my most recent night under "canvas", on an eco- campsite near Cleggan in Connemara, where the lady warden  found me a little cove in the dunes where I could risk actually sleeping in the tent rather than in the back of the car. I slept like a log, no worries about being abused or causing other people inconvenience and suffering.

Yeah, drive them non normal people out. Tell you something dude, I know a lot of climbers, and not one of the buggers is normal, so watch out or you might end up in a special room

The dickhead probably woke the whole campsite up shouting. I've heard similar - absolutely inexcusable behaviour.

Or the alternative version which is the the couple loudly shagging all night (fair play) it seemed for the entertainment of the whole Coniston Hall Campsite. Following morning their tent had half collapsed with two sets of legs sticking out of the door. We left the site but I assume they were just a bit tired?

Last year we did the Routeburn trail in New Zealand and got to a hut. The warden had this problem sorted out, the main room was for quiet sleepers and a smaller dorm was for the snorers. We all slept really well.

8 Years ago we had a private bunk room in the Polish Tatra's and 2 of our party were huge Polish blokes. At 11pm, just as we were thinking of calling a rescue in, they came in safe. We were pleased until they bedded down at midnight and it was like 2 pigs being run through with chainsaws. We all said the next day we wish they'd have died out there last night instead!

When I was doing my compulsory military service in Germany at the arse end of the cold war I had, for the last months of my stint, a roommate with a serious sleep apnoe/ snoring disorder. He was snoring so loudly that his family forced him to sleep at the barracks, even though (unlike me) was from the same town and thus entitled to sleep at home. He even started snoring while still talking with us, failed to wake up when we toppled his bunk bed, dragged him to the shower, dumped him there, turned on the cold water, and went back to bed. I also threw anything I had in my reach at him, including my boots. One night I (or someone else, but my boot was bloody) must have hit him in the face with a thrown army boot. He did not wake up, so in the morning I first wiped my boot and then woke him from the pool of blood he was sleeping in. None of us got more than a few minutes of sleep each night without getting seriously pissed for practical reasons.

Our only solution workable was eventually commandeering the beds of the other platoon across the hallway, as we had shifting rotas, and using our artillery earplugs.

I was the representative of the conscripts at the time, I eventually managed to get him discharged on medical grounds, but I had to stop my lorry at some night manouever refusing to drive any further because I was dead tired myself, and had to use the ensuing disciplinary hearing to get attention to our situation.

As for alpine huts, snoring is survivable with ear plugs, but I once staid at a hut in the Oetztal Alps, where some Czech guys had decided it was a clever idea to dry their stinking socks over the radiator in the sleeping room rather than the boot room....

CB

edit: same town, not time...

St Just, in the 1980s, you say?

someone in the next room kept knocking on the wall to remonstrate with me.
 

I once had this happen to me in a cheap hotel I stayed at in Barcelona. Later I found out it was also a brothel.

I had the last laugh, actually.At about half six the morning after the bloke  and his wife started shagging.  Once they'd got going a combination of bed noises and her voice  gave me some idea of their rhythm so I started banging on the wall contrapuntally to try and put the bastard off his stroke. I don't know if it worked or not but it put a big grin on my face. 

I was first down to breakfast and didn't hang about.....

 Fairly sure I'm right about time and place. Can't remember name of campsite, at least in later years it had its own bar near the entrance to the field if that helps.

Trevaylor.

One of the more amusing UKC threads. I'm really enjoying the metaphors and the multi-lingual responses. And the poem was cracking, too.

I've a lot of memories of putting up with nauseating snoring, toxic farting, and tent-shaking shagging. Getting down off the hills knackered and late after a long D of E day as a teenager, and having to listen all night to a mate in the next tent with a girl I'd had a two-year crush on. Or making a cup of tea in a YHA at 5am and reading 'Paradise Lost' through the remains of a hangover, because I couldn't get back to sleep through the din of the dorm chorus. And kipping outside on the grass in just a sleeping bag, two nights in a row, to avoid murdering someone on a stag do in a hut on the south coast - waking up to realise I wasn't the only one who'd swapped a mattress for a pillow of grass, and having another friend explain, earnestly: "It wasn't just the snoring, it was the way he'd stop breathing sometimes for so long that I'd lie there filled with anxiety that he'd died, just willing him to start up again." Then there are the climbing trips...

It's always the wives and girlfriends I feel sorry for, as I roll over at 3am and try to stuff my sleeping bag into my ears:

"Bleedin' hell, would a jury of peers convict me if I smothered that snoring bastard? I know I would let his wife off on a plea of self-defense!"

Or...

"Oo 'eck, is he trying to hammer a nail into a board? Gently, man!"
 

Northern teams in the 70's always stayed at Trevedra Farm. Looks to be mainly motorhomes now.

On a climbing trip stayed next to a couple in a caravan and was actually woken up in the middle of the night by their noisy bonking. Unable to get back to sleep until at a crucial moment in their love making there was an almighty crash as their bed had collapsed on to the floor. After that, there were just a few giggles, them not me!

If someone is a bad snorer (and they will know this) they are the ones who should sleep elsewhere. I have kicked several people out of dormitories and down to the lounge for their anti social snoring and I will continue to do so. Snorers are the ones who need to make the adjustment, not those of us who don't.

I meant normal for climbers, obviously  

I stayed in a cheap hotel in Bogata in the 70s and the couple next door obviously had no idea that there was an English speaker within earshot.  I put my head under my pillow but even so.. I was desperate the next day to avoid them so they wouldn't realise that their - um - graphic Uganda discussions might have been overheard and understood.

There also always seems to be a direct correlation between snoring and the ability to go to sleep in about 30 seconds which makes the torture even worse.

To be fair, we all need to try to accommodate others in huts.

It is not just snorers but keeping things clean and hygienic , keeping children and pets in check.

I vary from quiet to (very) loud so always try to camp or van doss away from others.

You let everybody know the situation then a tent gets put up next to yours, can't win.

Ideally huts would be organised to allow separation, tough on the tight budgets available .

Just at the moment, Steve, I'd love to have that problem.

Rog

Remember staying in a hostel in Chamonix - 4 strangers in 2 bunks. One guy went out and got wasted, then stumbled in and proceeded to snore very loudly. We tried to wake him by poking him with a broom handle (didn't know him so was not sure of the potential reaction) but he would not wake, so the other 2 in the room took their mattresses and slept in the corridor. I'm deaf in my left ear so just lay on my right....

I agree. Not sure I'd have the nerve to drag the big-bellied, beered-up barsteward (am I being too  stereotypical here?) downstairs though. I've got to the point where I refuse to pay to have my sleep wrecked and avoid all such encounters nowadays. I'll sleep in my car or under a rock to get away from the aural onslaught.

Many years ago when I was staying in a city hostel (Seattle I think) there was a very loud snorer in the dorm. One of my fellow sufferers anounced that he had the answer. This was to loudly and firmly order the snorer to stop. Amazingly, this had the desired effect. He snuffled a bit and piped down without waking up. Perhaps it filtered through to some unconscious part of his brain which then ordered the kerfuffle valve to open up? Or maybe we just smothered him with pillows and it was all a dream .....

Why would you think this?

The two loudest snorers I know are both very fit and underweight.

I had to smile when you said that you had taken to sleeping in the car. You may recall sleeping in my car following a session in the Wasdale Head Hotel and returning to the camp site to find that the tent had blown down.

Tony Hirst  

Yes, my bargain frame tent from the News of the World ads.

If you're going down the snoring-vigilante route you'd better make sure you don't do anything remotely antisocial yourself

Causes of snoring

Snoring is caused by things such as your tongue, mouth, throat or airways in your nose vibrating as you breathe.

It happens because these parts of your body relax and narrow when you're asleep.

You're more likely to snore if you:

are overweight

smoke

drink too much alcohol

sleep on your back

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Snoring/

I thought this was common knowledge

Maybe like letting your dog root in other climbers rucksacks.

How about the high altitude and periodic breathing? I remember a lot of lagerzimmer nights around 3000m where half of the people snored - and probably not everybody because of excessive lager (beer) consumption beforehand!

To me, " common knowledge" suggests things like The Ten Second Rule .

Don't you go prepared? Why don't you simply take some earplugs with you?

Then everyone in the hut can snore in unison if they like and you can carry on with your sleep. Sounds like a you problem.

"More likely" interesting that you picked the fat bloke out of the list.

Have you actually read the OP?

Why  are  you asking me that?

Story from my mate Dave. But possibly an urban myth.

Dave was in a hut once, where everyone was male, until a couple walked in later in the evening. As everyone was settling down for the night, there was a shuffling noise from the corner. Then some whispering, then giggling, then some slightly annoyed whispering, followed finally by a slightly louder "well can I just have a bl0w j0b then"

Immediately, a different voice in the darkness piped up from another corner "can I have one too?"

Mysteriously, everything went quiet at that point, and all settled down to a good night's sleep. In the morning when Dave got up, the couple had already left

What, even Judith!

I think i can confidently say everyone else was already awake.

I agree it's unfair on the snorer, who can't help it. I've also had to face neighbours on a campsite after my infant son cried all night. Live and let live, but that can be difficult in the small hours. Earplugs are now a permanent part of my kit.

Whitby youth hostel, about 20 years ago. The dorm was being kept awake by the loudest snoring I’ve ever heard. Eventually my brother bit the bullet and woke the snorer. 
 

unfortunately, it turned out the snorer had been stopping an even louder snorer from falling asleep. Within minutes, it sounded like someone has opened a sawmill in the dormitory. We admitted defeat and moved to the sitting room to sleep...

We have unofficial snoring rooms in caving huts. Not that you can sleep much in a caving hut anyway as it's usually carnage until 3 am. If I'm doing a difficult trip I either sleep in the car or just get up early and drive on the Saturday morning. 

Sorry about that, was replying to another post in my head, but you to you in reality, not the first time I've done this

If anyone gets disturbed enough for snoring to spoil there time somewhere and the don't take preventative measures next time they go, then that's their bad planning.

As a sometimes snorer, drink is my  trigger, I often bring earplugs for others, just in case.

No worries, as to be people being overweight, I do find climbers can be fatist, and I have seen a clique in a club picking on a bloke because he was overweight and snored, and the two issues got conflated. Not nice.

Back in the day most of my caving pals drank themselves senseless. I could never keep up without risking alcoholic poisoning. I did sleep in the back of lots of my cars. My Austin Princess was a pile of crap but it did have a wide back seat. Dossing under the Ingleton viaduct was a good option that saved a few bob. I must have kipped in most of the Dales carparks over the years plus various pub carparks as well.