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DESTINATION GUIDE: Stoney Middleton - Historical Relic or Overlooked Gem?

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 UKC Articles 08 Jun 2020
Naomi Buys on Scoop Wall

Stoney's legendary polished walls have been a forcing ground for generations and many of the country's most influential climbers have cut their teeth here. 'Stoney' as it is affectionately known, is undoubtedly the most historically important limestone crag in the Peak District, yet in more recent years its influence has indeed dwindled, leaving us with something of a relic. However, there's more to it than meets the eye...



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1
 Paul Sagar 08 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

Oh this is torture! I had such plans for Stoney this summer (and Chee Dale, following on from your previous, Rob), especially with the new Rockfax on its way. 

Still, my stupid broken leg will heal. And the crags will still be there next year!

 Michael Hood 08 Jun 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Well 99.999% of them will be there next year, but maybe that 0.001% is the crucial hold 😁

 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 08 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

I remember chatting to a disconsolate Yank from Montana at Stoney on the first day of his UK tour. He had failed on a whole series of routes, starting with the desperates and working down.

I asked him if they had similar rock where he came from - "Yeah, but we sure don't climb on it"

Chris

 jon 08 Jun 2020
In reply to Chris Craggs:

> I asked him if they had similar rock where he came from - "Yeah, but we sure don't climb on it"

They do in Utah, if you recall.

 tehmarks 08 Jun 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> And the crags will still be there next year!

Look on the bright side: if you'd had such plans for the Alps, you may not be abe to say that!

 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 08 Jun 2020
In reply to jon:

American Fork 🤬

Chris

 Paul Sagar 08 Jun 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

Oh, I was also supposed to do two weeks in Chamonix next month (though that wasn’t happening even if i hadn’t broken my leg...)

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Sorry to hear that Paul. Hope the leg heals quickly and (with a bit of luck) you'll get some routes in at Stoney again soon.

Post edited at 19:20
 GrahamD 08 Jun 2020
In reply to Chris Craggs:

> I asked him if they had similar rock where he came from - "Yeah, but we sure don't climb on it"

How do they get their rock polished, then ?

 Paul Sagar 08 Jun 2020
In reply to GrahamD:

I believe glaciers did it for them!

 Coel Hellier 08 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

Typo: Gabe Regan not Gabe Regen?

 webbo 08 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

No mention of Chris Hampers free ascent of Menopause. The route that ended Tom Proctors climbing career.

 seankenny 08 Jun 2020
In reply to webbo:

> No mention of Chris Hampers free ascent of Menopause. The route that ended Tom Proctors climbing career.

How did that happen?

 FBSF 08 Jun 2020
In reply to webbo:

And Nadins solo!!

 Stoney Boy 09 Jun 2020
In reply to seankenny:

TP used the one finger undercut method and hurt his tendons on the hold in the bottom of the groove. Hamper came along and flashed it on sight some time later. 

There was a good article in Crags magazine at the time with Proctor established in the bottom of the groove but unable to finish the route. 

Not surprised he hurt his fingers as that way of doing the move is hideous!

Think Nadins solo was onsight. 

Post edited at 07:14
In reply to webbo:

> No mention of Chris Hampers free ascent of Menopause. The route that ended Tom Proctors climbing career.

I actively kept the history section short, as a lot has been written about Stoney's history already - hence there was a very real danger that if I delved any deeper I'd just be repeating what others have written already. In addition to that, it is - after all - a destination article, so I wanted to give people more of a hands-on tour of what the crag feels like. The history is a huge part of this, hence its inclusion, but hopefully I got the balance right.

In reply to Stoney Boy:

Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson just commented on Simon's ascent over on Facebook and I hope he won't mind me quoting him here, as it really does contextualise the achievement:

"Having already climbed Menopause before Simons on sight, I knew how easy it is to commit wrong handed. Now I’m not going to put other well known climbers down for their own cutting edge contributions, but I think Simons solo ranks as one of the most audacious feats in British rock climbing. The French called him The Gladiator, which seems appropriate."

As per my reply to him, even if someone were to do this again today it would still be a totally outrageous achievement. Coincidentally, I've never actually done it, so as/when I'm physically (and psychologically) capable of doing so I'll try to get on it...with a rope of course...

 Doug 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson just commented on Simon's ascent over on Facebook and I hope he won't mind me quoting him here, as it really does contextualise the achievement:

do you have a link to that ? Thanks

In reply to Doug:

Hi Doug, it was on my personal FB Page, so sadly not one that I can share here - sorry.

Post edited at 10:15
 FBSF 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

The routes soloed at stoney so early to there first being done on ropes was outrageous. Even in 86 when i first started climbing there it was the done thing to prove yourself by soloing some of the classics. 

I always remember an interview with Andy Pollitt where he was asked what  is the scariest thing you have ever done.....his reply was 'watch .... ..... solo scoop wall, he was shaking so much '

 seankenny 09 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

Can any of you Stoney veterans give a sense of how the popular E3s and E4s compare in terms of difficulty and protection?

In reply to seankenny:

Of the ones I've done I'd order them somewhere along the following lines, from easiest to hardest:

Wee Doris - slightly bold at the start, and potentially a little run-out at the end, but aside from that there's good (and obvious) gear and the rests are also quite restful

Pickpocket - I found this alright, but I do have quite a long reach (and from what I recall this makes it a lot easier). Remember there being a crucial runner lower down, but once that's in it feels safe.

Our Father - despite the hard start, there's a good rest in the middle and the rest is a lot, lot easier than what's come before it.

Cabbage Crack - all-in-all I found this pretty go-ey, but the gear is good from start to finish, it's just pretty damn pumpy...

Bitterfingers - despite doing this twice I've never found it easy: hard moves and smaller gear makes it feel like a completely different proposition to Wee Doris (or any of the others for that matter).

I haven't done Oliver, but by all accounts that is 'the one to rule them all' as far as the E4s go.

 Stoney Boy 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Colonel Bogey well worth doing as well....Well protected and has a big feel to it especially the top Arete....

 seankenny 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Thanks Rob, SB!

In reply to seankenny:

No worries, hopefully someone who's done them all would be willing to stick their neck out and place them into order.

Clearly everyone is different, and a lot of it depends on how your going + how you feel on the day, but it's all a bit of a laugh isn't it - hardly an exact science?!

Besides, what else would we be doing if we weren't discussing this? Probably talking about politics...

 Brown 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

The Millionaire Touch is the hardest being basically E5

In reply to Brown:

> The Millionaire Touch is the hardest being basically E5

Interesting, I'd always heard Oliver was 'the one' (then again, that could easily be E5 too).

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

My version - hardest at the top ....

Oliver (E4 6a) - bold and sustained and easy to mess up.

Bitterfingers (E4 6a) - hard, pumpy to protect and there is the second hard section that gets you

Pickpocket (E4 6a) - remember this being hard. Only did it once.

Bubbles Wall (E4 6b) - bold start.

Millionaire Touch (E4 6b) - one very hard move but the rest is okay.

Our Father (E4 6b) - hard start as Rob says, but ok above that.

Cabbage Crack (E4 6a) - just pumpy really. Okay if you are fit.

Wee Doris (E4 5c) - like Cabbage only not as hard moves.

Colonel Bogey (E4 6a) - I remember this being okay but I only did it once and might have been going well.

Alan

Post edited at 13:07
 Stoney Boy 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Another 2 good E4's are Cardiac Arrest and Speed Kills. Morgue is a good pitch up there as well. 

For real Stoney lovers there is Hercules but I would not be recommending that to many people....

Surprised Gerremdown is not mentioned. Well out there and pretty safe as well. E3 5c about right for this. 

 Brown 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I'm basing this on how many goes it took to climb each.

As Alan suggests, the millionaires touch has one really hard move. If you are strong enough to do the move it might feel easier overall. If you can barely do the move it will feel desperate.

I do recall grinding to a halt on Oliver with my elbows pointing upwards. Id climbed to easy ground at the top but was so pumped nothing was to be saved.

I was unable to place gear in the slot in front of my face as i could not let go with one hand long enough. I even tried getting the gear to my mouth as an intermediate to reduce the time it took to place. Eventually I conceded defeat and fell off. I thought I was going to land in the substation.

Post edited at 13:31
In reply to UKC Articles:

Cheers Rob.

I’d say an overlooked gem. I hope Stoney now gets more recognition and attention as there are some really great routes to be climbed.  It’s a very nostalgic place for me and many of my friends, having spent a lot of time there in my misspent youth in the 70’s. We hitch hiked from Manchester on a Friday evening, we would eat in the cafe, climb in the Dale, drink and play darts in the Moon, go to the chippy and doss on Windy ledge. It was a wonderful place to meet other climbers both mortals and Gods. Care free and truly great days.

Chris

Post edited at 15:14
In reply to Christheclimber:

Thanks Chris, really glad you enjoyed it.

 Mark Kemball 11 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

Thanks for that Rob, brings back great memories of 40 or so years ago...

In reply to Mark Kemball:

One perk of things being quiet on the advertising side of things is that I get to channel my efforts into editorial such as this. One drawback is that we're clearly not making that much money....

On that note, thanks for the support - it's greatly appreciated

 Simon King 13 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Interesting (?) that the replies so far have not really covered Stoney E3s, mainly I guess as it's not grade Stoney does well? So for what's its worth, all I've done is:

Jasper (E3 6a) nails

Bubbles Original (E3 5c) not quite as nails

The Flashing Fisher (E3 5c) not nails at all (in fact no harder than Scoop Wall (E2 5c)!

So guys, any more Stoney E3s?

Simon

 john arran 13 Jun 2020
In reply to Simon King:

From distant memory, I remember doing Wee Doris, Oliver and Our Father - all at E3

 Stoney Boy 13 Jun 2020
In reply to Simon King:

Helicon and Morgue....Both very good routes.

 Simon King 13 Jun 2020
In reply to john arran:

Cheeky... I was after responses from 'punters' like me!

Simon

 spidermac 13 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles: Lots of great memories travelling from Edinburgh to Stoney for many weekends in the 70`s.  Dossing on windy ledge; the woodshed, land of the midnight sun, eating teacakes in Stoney cafe, looking for the single triangles on the formica tops of the cafe tables. Remember Dirty Derek living on rice pudding from the cafe as he had worked out it was the cheapest way to buy calories -so he had it for all his meals!!! It was the place for hard trad routes ( Yorkshire development was later), Lots of soloing went on - Big Ron had a circuit of lots of the classics he would regularly solo including wee doris & pickpocket among others. Would agree with Cubby Simon Nadin one of the real dark horses of UK climbing. Scariest moment was watching a guy on Fi fi fo fum (a VS) - as he got to the crux kicked out his one runner & started to seriously vibrate - people were walking away!!! Would also include Kink as a very hard underatted route at E4!! Probably harder than E4 routes listed above, have done them all.

Post edited at 13:23
 Simon King 13 Jun 2020
In reply to Stoney Boy:

Interesting... I was going to include Helicon but noticed it's now E2...and also interesting as I believe you climb a tad harder than me!  It's probably easier than The Flashing Fisher (E3 5c) and Scoop Wall (E2 5c) so arguably E2?  Or perhaps we've identified Stoney's own The Butcher (E3 5c)...?

Simon

 TobyA 13 Jun 2020
In reply to spidermac:

It's really fascinating that you Scottish guys would drive that far in the opposite direction of the Highlands to go to Stoney! On those weekends down from Edinburgh did you go to other crags in the Peak or was it all about Stoney?

 Rick Graham 13 Jun 2020
In reply to TobyA:

> It's really fascinating that you Scottish guys would drive that far in the opposite direction of the Highlands to go to Stoney!   )On those weekends down from Edinburgh did you go to other crags in the Peak or was it all about Stoney?

I think if you knew spidermac's identify (and seen him climb ) you would know he'd done (a bit everywhere , even in Scotland.

Post edited at 17:02
 Doug 13 Jun 2020
In reply to TobyA:

When I lived in Stirling in the late 70s/early 80s we often went to Northumberland with less frequent trips to the Lakes & Yorkshire. We often bumped into groups from Edinburgh (including Spider) & Glasgow. Trips further afield included N Wales & even Cornwall. Unfortunately the rock in Scotland was/is often wet

 TobyA 13 Jun 2020
In reply to Rick Graham:

I don't think Spidermac's user name is particularly hard to work out! 😃 I guess it would have been about a decade after him and Cubby were coming down to Stoney, I moved the other way, using going to study as an excuse, but mainly because I was inspired by the winter routes that people like Spider and Cubby had been doing! Not that I ever got nearly good enough to try any of the ones those dudes had done. 

In reply to UKC Articles:

This July, I am heading to The Peak do some bouldering and a mate suggested Stoney Middleton because of the history and bus links from Sheffield.

What is the bouldering like here?

S

3
 Brown 15 Jun 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I once spent some time climbing in the States with a guy called Russ Clune. He is one of Americas hard climbing lifers having spent decades climbing hard routes everywhere.

We got talking about where he had climbed in England and he said Stoney. Just Stoney. He had come to Stoney to climb the hardest routes in the UK and then headed on to Europe. Its hard to credit now that that would happen!

 webbo 15 Jun 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Theres not a lot at the grades you are climbing.

In reply to webbo:

Other places suggested were : The P and Rubicon.

Depending on the weather gritstone. 

3
 webbo 15 Jun 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

You will struggle at both of those places. There isn’t a lot of easy bouldering on a Peak Limestone other than places like Harborough rocks.

1
 Jon Stewart 15 Jun 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

> What is the bouldering like here?

Really, really shit.

3
In reply to webbo:

Not my suggestions.

Or I could just try hard. 

4
In reply to Jon Stewart:

:-O

1
 webbo 16 Jun 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Yes you could. It would depend how much you enjoy failing.

 tebs 16 Jun 2020
In reply to UKC Articles:

Great article Rob!

This "Pat Hill" character you mention seems a bit strange...

Enjoyed the discussion of relative difficulty of E4s. I've not done many so can't really comment but here's my graded list of Stoney E2s for people to disagree with!

Easiest to Hardest

Double Scotch straightforward jug pulling with good gear

Windhover Tricky start to into HVS

Armageddon Tricky start into a better HVS, feels more out there too. Amazing route.

Helicon No harder than the two above. More sustained though.

Dies Irae Tough but short lived crux

Scoop Wall Wonderful route, really varied, safe and a brilliant crux right at the top.

Carls Wark Crack I found this pumpy and hard

John Peel Desperate!

Flakes Direct (as a single pitch). Another superb route adding another crux high up after the tricky start. I've tried this a couple of times and fallen off the bulge both times.

Not done Alcasan, where would that end up? Any others?

 tebs 16 Jun 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

You introduced me to Stoney (and its bouldering), for which I shall be eternally grateful! It is the gift that keeps on giving. Since then I think I've bouldered more at Minus Ten than anywhere else on earth and still have only managed one "up" problem. To be fair it's absurdly polished, fingery and perhaps not the most aesthetic so objectively you're probably right as much as it pains me to say it. Mountain Spirit you're definitely better advised to head to the accessible gritstone bouldering, even if it's warm and midgy!

In reply to webbo:

I think it is irrelevant now as I will be either top roping or seconding on grit instead.

Failing wise, isn't failure part of the (learning) process?

S

2
 webbo 16 Jun 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Not if you fail to even get both feet off the ground.

3
In reply to tebs:

I'm up for grit bouldering. Fingerstrength is what I've got plenty of. 

3
 webbo 16 Jun 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

So you are hanging the holds on a Beastmaker 2000 bottom row, one handed with added weights.

3
In reply to webbo:

Well, tbh we didn't do weighted hungs on PT1 but I do remember using the bottom row on the beastmaker 2000 and I am sure if did a Lattice assessment or similar I could. 

I've down peer endurance training using narrow rungs on campus board. 

Where does it come from? 

S

2
In reply to webbo:

Sarcasm? 

 Jon Stewart 16 Jun 2020
In reply to tebs:

> You introduced me to Stoney (and its bouldering)

Sorry!

I've now got the Cumbrian equivalent at Trowbarrow, quick limestone after-work training drop-in centre. There's a bit just like Minus 10 with a traverse, up-routes no one does, bouldering on horribly polished eliminates, etc. It's total shite, but it's still better than Stoney!

Edit. It might be in Lancashire. Which I suppose would explain things.

Post edited at 17:59
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