UKC

I'm confused if you live in Scotland you can travel over 5 miles for recreation now (apart from places in temp local lockdown) I get that even then there is no overnight stays, but can you travel into Scotland from England for the day returning the same day. I live in Newcastle-upon-Tyne and could easily tick off a few day trip hill if you are allowed to. The question is are you???? 

Yes.

The travel guidance changed this weekend. Try reading this:

https://www.mountaineering.scot/assets/contentfiles/pdf/030720-COVID19-Guid...

Then ask yourself if there’s any chance you could transport the virus from a higher incidence area to a low risk one. Last I looked Newcastle area had quite high incidence but you’ll know how much contact you’ve had with others. We’re nervous about importation up here.

Yes. Additionally, as far as I'm aware, overnight stays are now OK if you stay in a self-contained unit (accommodation with its own private access and facilities, including toilet):

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-caravan-sites-and-ho...

"As part of the route map Coronavirus (COVID-19) Phase 2: Scotland's route map - physical distancing update 2 July 2020, travel restrictions will be relaxed and there will be relaxations on accommodation providers, with fully self-contained self-catering accommodation and second homes permitted to be open/occupied from 3 July."

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-phase-2-business-and...

"Self-catering accommodation with no shared facilities (or none that are open) and that are accessible via an external door. This will mean that any flats and tenements let as accommodation which are only accessible through an internal shared space such as a close, stairwell, hall or corridor should not open."

If you're going for a day out on the hill then it's incredibly easy to stay 2 m apart from others. I've done the Newcastle - Glencoe journey many times without the need for a stop, and I love drinking water and hence often need to deal with its removal*.

Genuine question here, and I'm not trying to come across as argumentative/combative - is it virus you are afraid of, or simply having tourism back?

*Caveat of course that not everyone will do this - and I'd suggest that if you can't get somewhere remote without using non-city services, you shouldn't be doing it.

Thanks for the replys. Looks like one of the Galloway Corbetts (Broad Law 840m) is on for Monday then. Can drive directly there and back no stopping off either way and I suspect this will be very quiet with few if any other walkers on the hills. Cheers again for the replys. 

Broad Law is quite a long way from being in Galloway! Have a good time whatever you do. Certainly people seem to be getting back out with enthusiasm. I'm not long back in from a Glensherup circuit (furthest I've been - 19 miles - for any reason since March or possibly even January) where the car park had reopened but was completely full, something I've never seen before. I came back out and parked in one of the laybys on the road further along. It's probably too far for daytrippers from England and I'd imagine most of the people there were relatively local, but you never know. The hills themselves were also quite busy - I wandered round the standard Innerdownie - Tarmangie - Ben Shee loop - but it would still only be 20ish people seen all told during four hours.

Yes, come to Scotland. Most of us here will welcome you. Just spend a few £’s while you are here. A take away meal or similar. 

Glad we didn't go there then! That was our first plan but instead we went up the road towards Dunning and headed up by Fanny burn (always makes me laugh! 🤣😂) and onto the tops behind there. Car park to ourselves and saw 3 people (they were together). Lovely running.

Will do the Ben Shee - Tarmangie - Innerdownie mid week sometime.

No, if coming from an area of high infection, please stay out of any infrastructure!! Another lockdown is the last thing we need! 

I'm worried about another lockdown! I'm not worried about the virus for me personally, but if we go back into lockdown we are in a very bad position. The evidence from around the world is that second lockdowns are happening, and since England unlocked too early, we are tied to a ticking time bomb. 

We could've waved at you from Seamab... The layby was reasonably busy but we didn't see that many people on the hill. My first time out of Fife since it all started. Great to be back out there.

Sounds like there were plenty of us dotted around! That end of the Ochils is great for being able to spread out and have a quiet day 😊

We're just on our way home from a lochside circuit of Loch Faskally, with a picnic dinner. Just got back to the car before the rain came on.

The chanterelles are starting to grow in, although they're very small.

Tomorrow looks a bit windy, might go to a beach somewhere.

Much as I like Stirling, it's great to be able to get away from it!

Yes, it is nice to get out a little further! Sounds like you guys had a great day. Tomorrow looks like a kite flying day!

Yes, and if anyone is thinking that this sort of viewpoint is just some sort of anti-English Nationalist thing, it is worth noting that a publication as objective as The New Scientist has an article saying likewise: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2247462-scotland-could-eliminate-the-c...

If we get to the point where Scotland is getting the virus more or less eliminated, but England is still balancing on its knife edge or worse with greater numbers of infections, the case for border restrictions so that Scotland can reap the rewards of the sacrifices we have made with a longer, stricter lockdown, by getting pretty much safely back to normal would become extremely strong.

I wonder how many people on here who have been critical of the UK's inept handling of the crisis are now moaning at the possibility of having their access to Scotland, where there has been a more cautious and generally much better managed approach, restricted. I only got out climbing for the first time a couple of days ago and I don't want things messed up now.

And it's not anti English, I fully support the restrictions in the south of Scotland, and if infections rise in our area I will support the restrictions being reimposed. However, I would really rather we didn't reach that point!

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff you post on UKC but I agree with this.

Russell please ignore such ill informed comments, the Newcastle area currently has one of the lowest rates of infection in the whole UK with south tyneyside for exanple having no recorded infection for last week data is available for, obviously traveling to Galloway to hike is extremely safe with zero risk of transmission, so please don't be put off with negative comments.  

Despite Scottish government hysteria the rates of transmission in Dumfries and Galloway are still extremely low albeit probably higher than the region you are traveling from, but fairly safe for you to travel here without the worry of bring the virus back to your local community.

English people are very welcome to come visit Scotland as far as I am concerned .

Absolutely, it is about what is best for different parts of Scotland and of the UK, and for the UK as a whole. The UK government should support whatever is best for Scotland since Scotland is part of the UK.

Oh dear! I hope I havn't upset you and that we just have honest disagreements on some things

Thank you Robert for putting into plain English what I was hinting at in my previous post. But I still got lots more dislikes than you!

Everybody is welcome to visit Scotland. The locals in the Glencoe area are worried but realise it has to happen. They just want people to be careful and not trash the place (which seems to have been happening more often even though we've had a vastly reduced number of visitors). 

An example is the few occasions when visitors laughed at the handwashing sink outside the Coop in Ballachulish and proceeded to barge past the queue at the door and quite a few other similar incidents.

Now these are exceptions but with a population where almost nobody has had Covid19 there is a worry that we're actually at the start of the infection, not towards the end of it. With a care home in the village and an average age much older than the norm it's an obvious concern. 

So come and enjoy the hills but just be careful when interacting with people who work in shops, petrol stations, mountain rescue etc. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against someone completely harmlessly coming from Newcastle to go up a hill in the borders just now, but, if it came to it for good reasons, I would hope that they would respect any travel restrictions which might be imposed at a later date - in the same way that most of us in Scotland have respected the "local, roughly 5 mile" rule for the greater good, even though driving a few hours to the hills would almost certainly have been harmless (rules, unfortunately, have to be blanket in nature in order to give clear messages and not give licence for chaos).

'Oh dear! I hope I havn't upset you and that we just have honest disagreements on some things'

Thanks for your concern!

I said "if you are coming from an area of high infection", as I hadn't actually checked out the claim about Newcastle having a higher infection rate. But generally I would say it is important that people understand their own areas infection rates vs those of an area they are traveling to and act accordingly. Don't go indoors for any reason if you pose a greater risk to local people! Surely this isn't hard to see? More deaths and more lockdowns are not helping local economies!! Most people on here can manage to go to the hills and back without using infrastructure, but Joe public is not so good at it, so sadly more lockdowns are highly likely. 

That's good. Which layby - did you start from Castlehill Reservoir? I drove past that on the way to Sherup and it was pretty full but with a few gaps (this was about 1230ish). Funnily enough for all my years of Ochiling I don't think I've ever been up Seamab the direct way from Muckhart - tend to take in that Commonedge/Hillfoot Hill area on the return leg from the bigger stuff on the west side of the Dollar-Quey pass. A factor in this might also be that I have a friend in Muckhart, so tend to go to her house rather than going up the hill from there. Must do it soon, though. The mini top of Castleton Hill is nice too.

Its easy for scotland (and wales) to keep their economies closed down when its the UK government (i.e. largely the english...) paying for it!

and the notion that scotland could eliminate the virus by x point in time if it wasnt for the english is utterly ludicrous, scotland is attached to england (in more ways than 1). some small village in the cotswolds could eliminate the virus in a matter of weeks if it wasnt for the bigger village down the road... but the people would soon starve.

It's the opposite; Wales nor Scotland do not have sovereign currencies so are beholden (just like anywhere else in the UK) to the Bank of England, who are the currency issuer.

Because of this, BoE do not need to act like a household (i.e. money in for money out). It follows that the BoE are not using our tax money to pay for spending and they never did (edit: as a fiat currency) 

The Scottish or Welsh Governments are currency users. They do need to act like households so do not have complete fiscal control. This is exactly opposite to your argument.

If you are to make an argument, don't support it with a fallacy.

People traveling for outdoor recreation is not going to cause local lockdowns, no matter if it's more enlightened UKH/UKC user or Joe Public, despite people using shops and other indoor places in Scotland over the last few months the levels of Infections has plummeted, I can't see the difference a influx of non Scottish or Joe Public to rural areas will make.  The country is opening up, so anyone can feel free to visit a pub in 10 days time whether they are local or not.  Mass protest, civil unrest, illegal raves, rammed beaches and beauty spots have made little impact on rate of Infections in Scotland or England, infection continue to reduce in Scotland and by looks of it in England they have reduced quite a lot over last ten days, Leicester lockdown was due to outbreaks in factories not adhering to social distancing or safe work practice, evidence from Germany and else where suggest future local lockdown will be caused by similar problems.

Obviously prolonged exposure indoors is a risk, when pubs open in rural areas, everyone have a responsibility to understand the risk before they go, but if locals or tourist think it's acceptable then I have no problem with it as Scottish government have gave the green light for it to happen.  Other than pubs and restaurants etc, I can't see any risk to local communities from opening up tourism across Scotland,  people have a choice not to visit higher risk indoor environments such as pubs.

People might not like it, but reality is hundreds of thousands of people from England will be visiting Scotland over next few months, and most will be welcomed, and such income will be vital for safe guarding many jobs.

I am currently on holiday in Ullapool for a week, traveling up from Glasgow, my friends are happy to see me, and I really can't see the risk of me being here, the local Tesco is not busy, one in at a time at the chippy, will support local business by getting take away meals, and visiting the deli for bread and coffee etc, and I will visit the outdoor beer gardens when they open later next week.  But the rest of the time I will be outdoors paddling, hiking, running and cycling so really don't see how I could in anyway be putting anyone at risk of infection.  

While I’m not 100% up to speed with the argument over sovereign currency, householders, users and fiscal control I do think that they made a reasonable statement on the whole. 
 

Looking around North Wales now there are job loses everywhere with more to come and one of the major industries- tourism, is on its knees, Airbus has virtually gone bust as well as other companies/sectors. The Welsh Government keep repeatedly stating that It’s down to UK government to support eg in recent press conferences with Drakeford, Skates and others. But, and here’s the big one... 6 months ago they were all for Welsh independence!

I’m born and bred in North Wales and lived here all my life but even I can see that it’s basically the combined taxes of the British people who keep Wales going. 

So Scotland could stay locked down for a long time and it wouldn’t cost the Westminster government anything?

Sorry, that is super-rubbish what you are saying there, both me and my husband have been working full time ( and so are many many other people here in Scotland during lockdown)  and teaching the kids at the same time. So, sorry, we are paying for it - full-time, both in taxes and otherwise. So get of your high horse, nothing is "closed" here, public, corporate  and private places are just trying to get on with it as best as they can within the limits, but there is certainly no reliance on England to prop up a "suffering Scotland or Wales". Last time I looked we are all taxpayers of the UK.

It will cost the UK government a lot more if it turns out England has a whole series of local lockdowns or worse while, in the meantime, Scotland effectively eliminates the virus (possibly with the help of border restrictions) and gets back to more or less normal.

Of course Scotland is attached to England. We're all in this together. We're all in the UK. Whether it is Scotland or a village in the Cotswolds that has eliminated the virus, they should be protected from it as far as is possible without being left to starve.

My point was more about Scotland being able to support itself financially, COVID or no COVID, than whether or not Scotland was following the right strategy.

Which probably isn't very far and certainly isn't very practical.

Driving up from England, climbing a hill then driving back is fine.

Hillwalking outwith your local area has been against the guidelines in Scotland until very recently and many people still see it as an activity that could cause a second wave of infection, despite a lack of evidence. 

We could wait until a vaccine is developed before returning to the hills, based on previous coronavirus outbreaks that will be never.

Well that is a separate question that will need serious discussion and answers before I, for one, might be voting for independence.

Interesting to hear about all the Stirling folk coming to the east Ochils, where I have been trapped for the last 3 months. I nipped up Dumyat in the dry spell Friday night and was reminded how superior it is as a viewpoint. Did some crappy routes on the Low Crag, which needed reversing as the top outs were so loose and mossy. There were a dozen or more people on Kips Crag so gave that a miss.

I'm working and paying tax too but a lot of people aren't and are being supported by the government. 

Worth noting that that Scottish tourist industry is worth over £5 Bn a year and employs tens of thousands of people.

Selkirkshire yesterday (N of St Mary’s Loch) and still yet to meet anyone on a hill for weeks. Previously just Lammermuirs/Moorfoots.  Had a brief foray into Fife for a walk in the Cleish Hills today, blowy but pleasant... dead quiet again. Trodden paths in grass suggested that the era was well used in the Spring.

I'm guessing that your livelihood doesn't depend on tourism? I assume you are not looking at loosing your home due to not being able to pay a mortgage for your b&b? I presume you don't own a small restaurant and are looking at going bankrupt and loosing your business and perhaps home? You probably don't own a small shop and are having sleepless nights worrying about how you are going to pay the bills. 

So you won't be travelling from Stirling to the Highlands? To us Stirling is an area of high infection.

Well, my livelihood did depend on tourism actually! So I found myself care work instead. 

Another lockdown is not going to help our industry at all! It will be the final nail in the coffin, so we have to deal with the virus first and then get the industry back on track. Scotland has done a reasonable job of dealing with it, but since we have no powers to stop movement from high infection areas, the whole industry is screwed!

I would normally pick up French groups from the airport, load them into a people carrier (it would be rare to have the luxury of even a spare seat), then drive them around to stay in B&Bs, eat in restaurants and head up the hills. The hills bit of that is the only viable bit at the moment!! 

If I did come to the Highlands myself, of course I would stay out of all infrastructure (I mean, that would be no different to normal. Why would I spend money for someone else to provide food for me when I can do it myself?! I always just bring my own in my cool box. I'm a rubbish tourist!)

If the tourist trips do restart, I will have to do them or risk having none next year, which means I can't take any care work for 2 weeks after doing them as I am too risky for my residents. If I was to get other outdoor clients in quick succession, then I am putting them at more risk of taking the virus back home with them as I can't drive them in a people carrier and not spread it if I have it. 

I can imagine the scenario where a tourist tests positive having visited a few small villages in a week. In each of those villages they visited the pub and restaurant and stayed in a B&B. Suddenly half the people in the area have to isolate and all bookings cancelled. Can you imagine the chaos?!

The whole situation is a mess. I can see me being in care work for a while yet. I would love the industry to be able to restart, but it's just not practical.

Yeah, seemed a good place to park to access that new woodland en route to the hill. It's going to be brilliant in another couple of decades when all that grows up a bit.

What's the link-up like from Commonedge to Whitewisp? Hillfoot Hill looks like sitka madness, but I was thinking there's got to be a decent way through over the summit area that doesn't lose you too much height...?

Looks like the west end people have been going east and vice versa! There'll be some interesting comeback stories in due course with people working out where to go. I'm happy to stay pretty local mainly, although might look to break the Munro drought on Tuesday (which has a reasonable forecast) with some kind of Vorlich/Stuc thing or possibly Lawers. Re the western Ochils, I know someone in Dunblane who as of mid-March had never been on Blairdenon but now is not far off 100 ascents. There's been a lot of that kind of stuff going on all over the place.

The tired old assertion that Scotland could not survive without the financial support provided by England is economically illiterate. It's the same kind of politically arrogant and superior "propaganda" employed to diminish the confidence of smaller countries, that characterised the British narrative as countries like Kenya, India and Ireland moved towards independence. The latest panelbase poll conducted for the Sunday Times today shows support for independence at the highest level ever recorded. That builds on Yougov polls last month showing the same thing. So it's beginning to look like the settled will of the Scottish people is becoming clear. And the majority of Scottish adults don't buy the "better together" canard. Or the myth that Scotland is too wee or too poor to govern itself. It's time for democrats and responsible politicians to start thinking about a process of constructive and amicable separation that leaves England and Scotland as friends, allies and trading partners.

If the majority of people in Scotland want independence then so be it and good luck to them.

I just wish they’d get on with it.

I had planned to visit scotland May/June, but this has obviously been foiled. Mostly with the view of walking/hiking/climbing/site seeing. 

Now that things are easing I have started to consider my options for a break / mini breaks. (I'm sure a lot of people are in the same situation; having excess holiday allowance). 

However I've found myself with a bit of a predicament; that is the concern that I am not wanted by the locals. This is not exclusive to scotland, but both Wales and Cornwall.

I can understand and respect the locals feelings on this. However if this only the viewpoint of a few individuals; it may put a big damper on Scotland tourism this year. Which will obviously have far reaching financial and social impact. 

 Coming from Common Edge, turn right on the forestry track that circumnavigated Hillfoot hill. In a hundred yards, there is a very narrow fire break with mossy tussocks leading in a direct line to the summit where there is a creepy camp of some sort. Descending eastward is pot luck, but there are plenty of breaks where you can walk upright, back to the circumnavigation track. From here, Another path leads south west to the Glen Quey track. From here you can cross the valley to a large sheep frank and up Saddle and onto White Wisp.

although not particularly logical, the circuit works better from dollar: saddle, white wisp, innerdownie, auchlinsky , common edge.

My point exactly. You don't work in tourism.

In future if you do come to the Highlands can you reconsider your zero spending policy? As council tax payers we fund the roads you drive on, the parking areas you park in and many other things. It's pretty mean to visit somewhere and give nothing back. At least if you contribute something the local tax payers will feel like they are getting something back.

They don't. 

Latest opinion polling in Scotland showing 54 percent supporting independence

Many of us would want to see a lot more than mere repeated assertion that this is a myth.

And then there would be the conflict between rejoining the EU and aligning with an England apparently hellbent on burning its bridges within Europe.......

Is a bit local-knowledge-ish but very doable. I agree with Alan that it's more natural from the Dollar end - although that's maybe just because I do it most often from there. Either end is feasible really without too much fuss. Do you know the loop path system on the SE flank of Innerdownie? That's very handy for getting off that side of things, eg if coming from Dollar do as Alan says and go up Saddle Hill by the surprisingly good path from the Craiginnan sheepfold, then along the ridge to Innerdownie. Then down either branch of the loop path (which is mown a couple of times each summer!) - the E branch comes out at the Quey dam, the W branch a bit further along the reservoir (there are also a couple of short-cuts off this but probably too complicated to explain here). Once on the through track it sounds like Alan and I do different things - I think he goes E a little way then uses the track up Auchlinsky and so to Commonedge from there. I tend to go the other way, W along the track beside the reservoir, and in due course you get to the big gate (with a picnic table alongside) that marks the end of the Woodland Trust ground. Carry on through this, and across a bridge with gates either side of it. Just beyond here you draw level with the broad grassy gap between Commonedge and Hillfoot Hill. Leave the track when level with an old fence that goes up the far slope, cross the small burn and head up the other side. It doesn't look like it from afar, especially not in summer, but there are two paths up this slope: one stays alongside the fence and meets the good cross-path at the W end of the Commonedge plantation, while the other slants across the slope (easier to find higher up) and meets the cross-path at the Hillfoot end. Then if heading to Dollar just go through to the main track and stroll down - is a pleasant end to things and it shows just how empty in terms of villages that area to the south is. If heading to the Devon end just reverse Alan's route over Commonedge and get down from there - presumably this is similar to what you did yesterday.

I've increasingly used the Commonedge/Hillfoot gap to get back to Dollar, as the western part of the pass can be quite wet in places and has become quite eroded by bikes - I prefer the 15 minutes of tussocky slog up the far side followed by the easy amble down. Re Hillfoot Hill itself, I think I've only been to the top once - seem to recall it was fiddly but not too bad (certainly not in the Black Creich Hill class), with the main issue being uncertainty as to when you're actually on top. And as for getting up the E side of Whitewisp, skirting the trees on the N edge is one option - there's an old track to begin with - while zigzagging through the firebreaks is another. These are probably all better winter/spring options so as to avoid summer growth - although just a week or so ago I showed a friend aged 70 the Commonedge/Hillfoot gap route and he didn't complain too much, at least not in my hearing.

Hope that helps anyway. Give a shout one time if you want to be shown such things on the ground.

Excuse me? I bring tourists to the Highlands, all summer, every summer. Only stopped this year because it can't be done, hopefully it will be possible next year.

Ummm, nope! I don't spend more than I need to at home either! I cook at home, I stay with friends or in the van if I go away and I buy second hand! The hills are free and I owe no one any obligation to buy anything to access them.

That's the trick, go fast enough that you can't hear or they don't have the breath to moan! Works every time! Lol 😜

You're assuming that I (59 next week) was faster than him (not far off 71)...

Fair point!

Happy birthday for next week!

And you should see my pal who is 75! Complete machine on the hill.

Thanks. They keep coming...

(I'm just hoping the bus pass still exists for 60-year-olds in a year's time - I have plans to put it to good use.)

I accept that there is still much to be done to convince many of us with valid concerns and questions in the run up to any referendum. And no doubt, risks to be weighed and difficult political negotiations to be navigated. But it does feel like there is a solid resolve and momentum now that  feels very different to anything that I can remember....possibly because the alternative to independence now seems so much less attractive and so much more more economically risky. I'd like to think that even for those that preferred to stay in the UK six years ago, the balance of risk and benefit are changing  enough to at least reconsider that decision. It's a small and unscientific sample and I don't claim to speak for anybody else, but I now find it virtually impossible to meet anybody under the age of 40 that doesn't see independence as natural and preferable to the current position Scotland finds itself in. I think my biggest concern is how an increasingly undemocratic and reactionary Westminster government will respond to those demands.

you seem to be missing the point of my analogy. the only way a small village in the cotswolds, or anywhere else, can completely eliminate the virus before a valid vaccine is if nobody goes in or out. in the interconnected world we live in said small village (scotland) would soon starve literally and metaphorically. scotland cant blame england if it now fails to completely eliminate the virus by the end of the summer (as it no doubt will...). The virus is going to keep popping up everywhere until a vaccine is deployed worldwide.

You said in your last post that you are a carer and used to work in tourism. Therefore you are a carer. You are excused.

The hills are free, yes. The roads are not. If you lived in a tourist area (and remember, when I first moved to Skye there were fewer tourists) you would see the issues (and not problems) we have. I welcome all visitors to Skye, especially the ones who contribute to our economy. The people who are bussed in, bussed to the next photo spot, bussed out again are not much of an economic gain to anyone apart from the Edinburgh based tour companies that send them here. 

That said, I really don't have a problem with them. Just spend a few quid in the places you visit and it makes it good for all. It doesn't take much, a coffee, a bag of chips. 

And the next one will show a different result depending on who you ask, where you ask, when you ask etc. By the way, it was a poll of 1026 people. Polls conducted with so few people are notoriously inaccurate. And yes, both sides claim poll victories.

Infrastructure like roads comes out of general taxation, we all pay in no matter where we live. Money spent in the village shop does not go to maintaining the roads.    

I certainly can see your dilemma, that you need business and industry to be getting the cash flow back whilst not wanting the re-infection of the community with Corona Virus.

I notice on the Covid-19 App from Kings College that incidence of cases in the UK has stopped falling in the last couple of weeks, and has levelled out(for now), so the worry is that we could be at the start of U-shaped graph, with numbers of affected people starting to head back up again (Do you put your data in to that App, to help with statistics?).

So in my mind, we need to be more strict as a united nation, and not just head out of the home, without a thought of how we are planning on interacting with others, and maybe the 4 ruling bodies across the UK, need to go back a step for another month, especially the Westminster parliament.

I have been at Rutland Water today for quite some time, and consistently there are families and groups of friends walking the full 1.5-2 metre width of the rough track that goes round this large piece of water. I am running in the opposite direction, and only at the last minute does one person, possibly two move out of the way, whereas the whole troupe should be on the opposite side of the track, in single file, or all on the grass.

Likewise, a week ago (I'm trying to go to the supermarket only every 14 days), I went to Morrison's, and was amazed at how quickly we were waved in, with everyone walking in without a thought for social distancing, and the same lack of sense of the microbiology of our human situation at the moment was to be found in every isle, including with the staff. Everyone was in every aisle without gaps, and reaching across each other. I was struck dumb. (In fact I was struck with the need to hold my breath at various points of my sojourn through the crazily busy supermarket, to try to take in any aerosol droplets. Probably a vane thought).

So keep the restrictions on your own individual terms all of you out there. I think that there are a fair number of us who feel like this, and I'm wondering about my climbing. Perhaps I shouldn't consider climbing at Slawston Bridge which is in between me in Stamford and Leicester....

Enough waffle, over to you, and your battles to get the right balance. I won't be surprised if I don't see the word Chukta come up in this too. (Sorry a mere Englishman, who did his degree in lovely Glasgow, who cannot remember how that word is spelled.)

Rob

Obviously the risk cannot be completely eliminated, but by restricting non-essential movement from an area where the virus is not under control to areas where it is more or less eliminated, there is a good chance that any outbreaks of infections can be isolated and stamped out. My main concern is if we get to a point this autumn/winter where a second wave threatens England but Scotland, through its more prudent approach is in a good position to avoid a second lockdown and keep life largely normal.

'Infrastructure like roads comes out of general taxation'

I thought road repairs were funded from local council tax.

I think I'm right in saying that trunk roads are funded nationally and other roads locally.

Am I right in thinking you live on one of the islands? What is the general feeling about tourism versus keeping the virus out? I would love to visit some islands this summer, but am wary of whether it would be appropriate.

I only wanted to know if it was OK to travel from England to Scotland to climb a mountain, picked the borders as I thought it would be quieter there less people less chance of spreading or catching anything. If the answer was no I would have just stayed local or maybe a less popular fell over the lakes. Did, nt expect all the replys and political and moral jousting the post has created, anyway hope your all having fun have decided on Broad Laws tomorrow, will post some images stay safe and have fun and if you do visit Scotland on a day trip try and spend some money in the local community no big multi national concerns (mac Donald's KFC) it looks like they could do with all the trade they can get at the moment. 

Wow, thanks Dave, good local knowledge there! Sure I'll be back that way soon, though first I'll maybe try to get further afield for a bit now that we're 'allowed' again 

Thanks Alan, between your explanation and Dave's it sounds like I've got some exploring to do. Creepy camp sounds intriguing, though maybe not one for an overnight

'Am I right in thinking you live on one of the islands? What is the general feeling about tourism versus keeping the virus out? I would love to visit some islands this summer, but am wary of whether it would be appropriate.’

People I’ve spoken to have enjoyed the peace, empty roads and no camper vans which seem to be here all year round. They also (like me) think there is more wildlife around, maybe otters and birds are not hiding from the traffic.

I think locals feel safe and lucky to have been isolated here and are concerned about what happens next. Obviously a lot of people have struggled without income from tourists.

Apart from health a major concern is transport. As tourists are allowed onto the islands how will locals be allowed to use the ferries. First time I went to Oban, after three months, the ferry which could take over 900 passengers would only take 71. I was told recently it could now take over 100.
If the Oban ferry is fully booked does everyone line up in Lochaline for hours, and will locals who have work to do have to line up behind holidaymakers?

I would also like to visit other island this year, looks like foreign trips might be unwise.
 

You are correct. However the village shop keeper owns a house. He/she pays council tax. This goes to maintaining the roads.

NOBODY expects the Scottish Inquisition!

St. Cyrus was lovely this afternoon, a little sunshine and no more than a few spots of rain, the showers missed us.

There were people around, but not too many.

And a pod of dolphins swam and jumped their way south along the beach, under a swirl of gulls - it was magnificent, some launching well clear of the water. I think there was something bigger surfacing amongst them too, from time to time.

That's it in nutshell. People are struggling. However your throwaway comments are directed, people are struggling.

Thanks. Yes, looks like restricted ferry capacity is going to limit things whatever peoples' wishes are. I imagine Skye is going to be absolutely rammed......

I think  I might disappear into the hills of Ardgour midweek - probably see no one and spend no money!

Simply put, anyone who's earnings depend on tourism need your pounds. 

The luck few on the islands who don't need tourists, well they don't want you.

So is it resulting in tension locally?

You can tell the difference between throwaway comments and carefully considered comments?

Yes, it appears CalMac do not the power to prioritise locals over anyone else. 

This group of scientists say England will have 27,000 excess deaths through the next year if they stay on the current course. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-excess-deaths-uk...

In that scenario if England is 'allowing' 3,000 new infections per day and the border with England stays open Scotland would have 2,700 excess deaths if it gave up on suppression or require continual lockdowns to manage the re-seeding from England. 

Let's end this myth.  The UK government is printing this money it isn't tax money or even 'properly'  borrowed money.    That means everyone who owns pounds is paying for it because they are increasing the number of pounds in circulation.   If they were borrowing it then Scotland gets handed a proportional share of UK government interest payments.   

What we have is a situation where Scotland has handed its credit card to England.  England decides what to buy and then Scotland pays a proportional share of the interest.  Personally, I would prefer Nicola Sturgeon to be holding my credit card than Boris Johnson.   Next year I hope to get that choice.

I don’t think there’s been a single thread on here for a while where the subject includes Scotland,  which hasn’t descended into an Indy argument.

Try asking about shortbread, whisky, sheep, motorways, microprocessors, furniture. Just anything. Put in the word Scotland and hey presto as if by magic the thread will descend into independence mayhem.

I get quickly burned off.... why I don’t tend to ride nor walk with others often.  Leve leve

Judging by the road verges, MacDonalds is doing just fine right now... ditto Costa

Support for independence is at 54%.  SNP headed for a large majority in next year's Holyrood election having won every election for about 10 years. 

English Tories refuse indyref2, take us out of EU against our will and totally f*ck up on Covid.   What do you expect? 

It isn't mayhem, it is a country making the transition to independence.

Some parts of Dumfries and Galloway are still under a 5 mile lockdown, I'm not sure of the rules exactly but it's probably good to understand them before making a decision to travel there - https://www.gov.scot/news/management-of-local-covid-19-outbreak/

I was talking about the thread!!!!

You sound like a friend of mine, convincing everyone of the need for independence overrides everything, including commonly accepted social manners.

I'm a bit surprised it's that low tbh.

You've said on here that you feel it's "gerrymandering" for an independence vote to require a majority of the entire electorate instead of just 50% plus one vote of the actual turnout.  It isn't of course, it's only sensible for huge irreversible change -vs- the status quo to require a 'super-majority' because the irreversible thing is irreversible, whereas the status quo can always be demolished another day.

I was relieved at the result of the last indyref because it was clear that a victory would have been a very narrow one, and I was convinced at the time that would have led to trouble and if it isn't obvious now how divisive and damaging an inadequate mandate for a massive change can be, how it can lead to absolute chaos, well I guess it never will be.

When indyref2 rolls around, which I guess is inevitable, I hope the result is a no.  Or a landslide for yes, a convincing majority of the whole electorate, ideally the whole population.  Anything in between and just watch as the absolute worst humans the country has to offer seize control.  Again.

This is so true!

But back on topic; I stopped counting at 300 people on Dumyat this morning all enjoying our extended lockdown holiday.

We are in temporary accommodation in the Trossachs now. Laybys and car parks are almost full and no sign of any Police presence except last Friday on the A84 just north of Callander but we think they were more interested in Friday speed merchants and motorbikes.

Anything in between and just watch as the absolute worst humans the country has to offer seize control.  Again.

???

In a hillwalking forum? Posts about hillwalking.

Took a wander up the eastern Vorlich this afternoon, a bit of a short-notice plan - a pal phoned fancying it so off we went (in separate cars). Very busy - we parked almost half a mile east of Ardvorlich. Busy on the hill too although plenty of people were just doing the lochshore thing. With being quite late starting we were against the flow and must have met upwards of 50 people coming down the main path. Probably 100ish people seen all told including - as on other, nearer outings recently - various folk who looked like they weren't hill regulars, good to see. Everyone being very sensible and cheery - and hardly any litter seen.

We came down the NW ridge which as usual was deserted, then cut back across to the main path. There was a helicopter busy over the glen between Vorlich and Stuc, and it looks like the old grassy track up the flank of Ben Our from the Glen Ample side is being turned into a gravel track - probably hydro-related although I'm not sure.

Lovely day anyway - very nice light, and the breeze was never strong enough to be unpleasant and eased as we came down. Saw a red kite twice, once at quite close quarters. It was my first Munro since mid-January - longest gap for more than a quarter of a century.

Yes Russell , i have been trying to find out the same, can i travel to Scotland from England. Cant find any legal /official/ notification , Nicola has made no mention ! Can anyone out there produce a link/document for me and Russell. Thank you    

Have you looked at the BBC website?

'There are currently no plans to impose quarantine or any other kind of restrictions on travellers from the rest of the UK into Scotland, and there has been no formal discussion on whether they should be introduced.'

For my first hill day in 14 long weeks I did a Vorlich, Stuc and Beinn Each circuit from Loch Lubnaig via Glen Ample today. The chopper was indeed part of a new Hydro scheme. It was ferrying in pipes to Coire Fhuadaraich. Their plan A using wheeled transport up the gravel track had failed miserably. Seeing the hordes approaching from Loch Earn side as I walked up Vorlich's NW ridge convinced me to skirt the summit and leg it out to the Stuc.  I spoke to a couple of folk who asked for some advice on the best way to return to Loch Earn. I think everybody I met today was exactly like me....happy as hell to be out again.  I never met a soul on my Glen Ample approach and after leaving the summit of the Stuc it was similarly quiet on my return to Loch Lubnaig. I did Stob Binnein and Ben More in March this year, just before the lock down. This is by far my longest Munro gap since I was sailing deep sea 30 years ago. Btw Dave we did meet briefly on a the Stuc on a not too pleasant winters day a few years ago.           

Good day out. When I drove past the Lubnaig layby shortly before midday it was fullish but with at least one gap. It would have been after 2.30pm when we came down the NW ridge, so we would have missed you.

Shame to see the old grassy track go, but it's understandable they would put in a hydro scheme there. Was there any problem with access along past the workings? We almost went that way from Edinample but it was all a bit short notice (plus I've picked up a weird and hopefully short-lived knee problem) so we just kept it simple.

I got that feeling too - for all that it was mad-busy on Vorlich it was a really good atmosphere, everyone happy to be out on their first hill for ages or (like me) their first non-local hill.

Yes, can remember that. Very fond of Stuc - both Munros are fine hills and they complement each other well, but I'd take Stuc over Vorlich if forced to choose.

Well, yes, to a degree. But take the parking at the Old Man of Storr (amongst others in Skye). The parking here has been increased considerably. Funded by the Highland Council. Now, who pays for the Highland Council funding? Residents of the Highlands. So it's very easy to say infrastructure comes out of general funding but this has come out of specific funding, ie council tax. Therefore money spent in the local shop helps employ the people in the Highlands who pay tax that then builds car parks, roads etc.

Therefore I completely disagree with your statement. 

Based on a poll of 1000 people. Come on, you are having a laugh.

No problems with access, some easy to follow signage near Glen Ample farm to avoid the heavy machinery. I enjoyed a guid wee blether with 3 workers as I made my way up the track.  Aye the Stuc gets my vote too. So much so some poor sod will eventually carry ma ashses up onto the Stuc on a wild weather day and scatter ma ashes afore the wind when I faw aff ma perch.   

It is when you base the number required on an electoral register which is totally out of date and inaccurate.  Or you do the maths and come up with a criterion designed to be impossible to meet and have it imposed by the Westminster government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Scottish_devolution_referendum

The percentage of the electorate rule for the 1979 referendum was designed by unionists to make sure it was pretty much impossible to win.  The vote was 51.62% for devolution and we should have had a Scottish Assembly in 1979.

Labour did the same with the voting system for Scottish Parliament elections to try and prevent majority governments because they thought that coalitions would always involve a unionist party and it would stop the SNP holding an independence referendum.   

No. Council funding is mostly from central government and general taxation.

See the Highland Council budget for example.

https://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/20279/our_budget_leaflet_issue_2

Very common for samples of roughly 1000 to represent a population. Margin of error around 3%.

Just one link of the many available explaining why 1000 is a rough target for an accurate sample size.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/upshot/how-can-the-opinions-of-1000-peop...

Monday, Broad Law and surrounding hills in the bag. No problem getting to the area, which by the way was stunning, even with all the wind farms visable in the surrounding area ( hope that doesn't cause another flood of comments). 4 photos up on ukc/UKH a bit of o dull day weather wise but still stunning area..

Cool space ship too!

I like wind farms!

I've just been in Ardgour/Ardnamurchan for a couple of days. Corran ferry only open to essential traffic on way (had to drive round), but fully open and free on way back! Saw one person on three hills. Two stunning beaches almost  to myself (it wasn't Bournemouth.......). Very little traffic. Spent no money (sorry.... ). Amazing weather and my first ever view of noctilucent clouds from my summit bvi last night

Felt a bit weird being allowed out though.

We went to St Andrew's, up from Manchester, Sun/Mon, roads, town and beaches well busy.

Several Southern Upland days, still yet to meet anyone on a hill. Did a road circuit from Peebles over the Megget Stone yesterday. One car parked at the head of Talla Reservoir, three at the Megget Stone (for Broad Law presumably) and a car at a hill starting place down at Megget. Not busy at all.

Some of the dislikes for the wise comments of people like Robert and girlymonkey here are so weird as to be puke-making, quite frankly. (Anyhow, I've no intention of joining in this particular 'discussion'.)

So with the easing announced a few hours ago are overnight stays in campervans in laybys allowed yet?

We were on the ring dykes climbing on Monday - only saw a couple of climbers from Fort William and very little traffic. Ferry was a bit late getting going on Friday gone I think but was free on Monday and Tuesday and back to taking payment this week.

Don't forget your mask or face covering. They are mandatory in shops from tomorrow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53252760

I live in the west coast and have been pretty much sticking to local hills. I follow scottish regs as I think our mrs has the best advice compared to the random bampots crap from England   What does seem weird is the the huge drive to discredit her. I think this should be taken as a bonus because the goverment see her as a threat. She must be made a fool.

I have never voted independent Scotland.

I feel this will be my only choice1 now.

Back yesterday from a 4 munro Mamores trip, wild camped in the col between Binnein Mor and Binnein Beag, no problems all weekend, low profile kinlochleven sleeping in car Friday night, 2 days 1 night in hills. Great trip only seen 6 people in the hills all weekend although roads up and back were busy. Couple of images in latest photos.