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NEWSFLASH: Alex Megos climbs 9c project at Ceuse

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 UKC News 06 Aug 2020
Alex amongst the stunning blue streaks of Ceuse whilst working Bibliographie

Alex Megos has climbed his long-term project at Ceuse after reportedly spending at least 60 days on the route. The line tackles the steep ground to the right of Biographie's blue streak and there is speculation that it is in the 9b+/9c grade range.



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 whispering nic 06 Aug 2020
In reply to UKC News:

If anybody other than Ondra can, he can...

 Andy Farnell 06 Aug 2020
In reply to whispering nic:

True. But others are catching up. Which is how it should be. 

Andy F

4
In reply to UKC News:

Be interesting to see how Ondra fairs on this when he goes and tries it. (Whenever that will be) 

looks like an amazing route. To me it looks better/more appealing than Silence 

 Spanish Jack 06 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Might be “new” to Ondra to repeat a cutting edge route, as since 5+ years he has always provided them, take away perfecto mundo. Obviously he has done that in the past but it’s been a while...

 apwebber 07 Aug 2020
In reply to UKC News:

Wow! I hope it really is 9c. Can't wait to see the footage.

 remus Global Crag Moderator 07 Aug 2020
In reply to apwebber:

> Wow! I hope it really is 9c. Can't wait to see the footage.

Given that he did Biographie in 3 goes and perfecto mundo in ~15 days of effort I'd be pretty surprised if the grade went down.

 AlanLittle 07 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Seb Bouin won’t be far away either

 SenzuBean 07 Aug 2020
In reply to UKC News:

Just to put them side-by-side, these are the breakdowns of the two 9cs.

Bibliographie: ...starts up an 8c to a good rest, followed by a Font 8B boulder problem and finishing with a 9a+ route.

Silence: 20m of 8b, then Font 8C, 8B and 7C/+ [Adam: I reckon just linking 8C into 8B into 7C is a 9b+ sport climb]

1
 Greywall 07 Aug 2020

In reply to TheClimbingWallCritic:

Sorry, what?

2
 apwebber 07 Aug 2020
In reply to Greywall:

I guess onsighting 9a isn't impressive enough for some

1
 jezb1 07 Aug 2020

In reply to TheClimbingWallCritic:

> Hes good at boosting his image thats for sure and he's a phenomenal climber I just can't help but feel he could do more with his talent!

Up to him though really isn’t it. He climbs so much other stuff that doesn’t make it into the news, the amount of routes he’s done is phenomenal, plus he’s just done what could be the joint hardest sport route in the word!

 progrupicola 07 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

> Be interesting to see how Ondra fairs on this when he goes and tries it. (Whenever that will be) 

> looks like an amazing route. To me it looks better/more appealing than Silence 

Sure! as would be to see Megos on Silence, I think they're pretty different climbers in style and strenghts, still, both are at the cutting edge and so far, there's loads of climbs from Ondra that would be interesting to see Megos try.

As someone put before, Seb Bouin is almost there, and Ghisolfi, Schubert,... are too.

Ig

Post edited at 10:34
 La benya 07 Aug 2020
In reply to jezb1:

Various reasons why he might not be doing as much as you want him to. To compare him to Ondra is unfair... seeing as Adam is probably the greatest ever climber.  Not everyone can be so prolific. Indeed not everyone's body is as resilient and can stand up to the abuse (just a thought!).

He claims 60 days over 3 years on this route- that is a massive commitment to staring at the same 35m stretch of rock. Maybe he enjoys dicking around with his mates as much or more than that?

edit - from his trainers...
"It is about balancing all things out and working hard, for a long term progress. Motivation, having fun and being creative are most important and I am not fan of strict systematic programs where you should doing fixed seconds on a hang board. Sure we sometimes do hang board exercises and we have a general plan but it can always be changed based on current feelings and almost half of Megos training is non-climbing exercises."

edit again- he even explains in his very first sentence of the video his reasons.....

Post edited at 10:44
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 Rob Kelly 07 Aug 2020

In reply to TheClimbingWallCritic:

Climbs potentially the hardest route in the world. "About time he stopped dicking around". Peak UKC.

2
 Robert Durran 07 Aug 2020
In reply to Rob Kelly:

> Climbs potentially the hardest route in the world. "About time he stopped dicking around". Peak UKC.

You are badly misrepresenting the post you are replying to. 

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 tjdodd 07 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> You are badly misrepresenting the post you are replying to. 

He must work for the Labour party

13
In reply to tjdodd:

Brexit. 

8
 Red Rover 08 Aug 2020

In reply to TheClimbingWallCritic:

Alex doesn't owe us anything. If he wanted to give up climbing and sit on a sofa eating KFC all day then that's up to him.

Post edited at 22:27
 Robert Durran 10 Aug 2020

In reply to Greywall:

> I am aware of those videos (not really my thing) but the latest one suggest from Google is from Jan 2018.....

Which is consistent  with ClimbingWall Critic's point.

> .....I'm still not sure what the issue is.

I agree there isn't an issue. But that doesn't mean someone should cheaply twist and misrepresent ClimbingWallCritic's post (whether they agree with its sentiment or not).

 And it doesn't say much for peoples' critical faculties that the misrepresenter gets more than 50 "likes". Oh dear...... "Peak UKC" indeed.

Post edited at 11:02
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 Rob Kelly 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

I'm not entirely sure what your issue with my post is. My summary of ClimbingWallsCritic's post was that Megos pulled off one of the most impressive feats of climbing ever and this was immediately caveated by an 'oh he could have done this years ago if he stopped dicking around' comment. Could he? I would love to know how someone other than Megos could possibly know that. I highly doubt he can go full bore 100% of the time. Very few people can. Maybe in between his comp exploits, 9b+ sends and 9a onsights he needed a bit of time doing something else? Indeed someone previously even quoted his coaches saying something very similar: "It is about balancing all things out and working hard, for a long term progress. Motivation, having fun and being creative are most important." As was said above, he owes us nothing, so maybe just enjoy an incredible feat of human performance? I hear there is footage of the FA, excited to see that!

 Robert Durran 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Rob Kelly:

> I'm not entirely sure what your issue with my post is. 

I didn't agree with or like their post but ClimbingWallCritic's point was that he was pleased to see that Megos had stopped "dicking around" and climbed something really hard. 

Your <Climbs potentially the hardest route in the world. "About time he stopped dicking around" > turns this around misleadingly; ClimbingWallCritic in no way suggested that he was still "dicking around" while climbing the route - in fact the very opposite. 

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 Rob Kelly 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Your "Climbs potentially the hardest route in the world. "About time he stopped dicking around"" turns this around misleadingly; ClimbingWallCritic in no way suggested that he was still "dicking around" while climbing the route - in fact the very opposite. 

I don't think that's what my post suggests.

 Martin Haworth 10 Aug 2020
In reply to UKC News:

Obviously very impressive, 9c is impossible for most of us to even understand what it’s like.

I guess the key question is could he be climbing 10a by now if he hadn’t been dicking  around? Or would he have burnt out?

Alternatively can he go on to climb 10a now he has stopped dicking  about?

Could Ondra climb 10a if he dicked  about a bit more?

Post edited at 12:07
1
 Robert Durran 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Rob Kelly:

> I don't think that's what my post suggests. as if it 

Well, if it was intended suggest anything else, it is hard to see how it justifies the "Peak UKC" thing - without that I might have been inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to carelessness in your wording. ClimbingWallCritic's post by no stretch of the imagination represents some new level of daftness on UKC.

Post edited at 12:17
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 Rob Kelly 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

"Peak UKC" in that someone who has no idea what it takes to climb 9c wades in saying it should have been done ages ago. And no, I don't know who ClimbingWallCritic is, but something tells me they're not Ondra or Megos! Anyway, can't believe I've been lured into such a UKC exchange! Over and out

 Robert Durran 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Rob Kelly:

> "Peak UKC" in that someone who has no idea what it takes to climb 9c wades in saying it should have been done ages ago.

But that's not even the bit you twisted and then ridiculed as "Peak UKC".

> And no, I don't know who ClimbingWallCritic is, but something tells me they're not Ondra or Megos!

Of course not, but that doesn't disqualify them from expressing a view and perhaps even stimulating a worthwhile discussion about the different approaches of Ondra and Megos.

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 Frank R. 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Argues for ten posts about the fine interpretations and meanings of a tongue-in-cheek forum post in a discussion about 9c. Peak UKC indeed

 Olaf Prot 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Oh dear...... "Peak UKC" indeed.

Not quite...no one has yet questioned his previous achievements on grit...

 Ian W 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Olaf Prot:

> Not quite...no one has yet questioned his previous achievements on grit...

Possibly because he has climbed on grit before, and turns out "what has he done on grit?" is quite a decent tick list.......but you are right, it still wont necessarily stop people questioning it........

Post edited at 15:47
 Robert Durran 10 Aug 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

> Argues for ten posts about the fine interpretations and meanings of a tongue-in-cheek forum post in a discussion about 9c. Peak UKC indeed

Maybe, but at least I'm right.

21
 HeMa 11 Aug 2020
In reply to UKC News:

While Alex is certainly tallented (after all, first flash of 9a), his cuttin edge pyramid is not really a pyramid. One 9b+ FA and this new one 9c FA. True that he has a bunch of 9bs FAs and repeats.

Which begs the question, can't be arsed to look up. Has Perfecto Mundo being repeated?

4
 AlanLittle 11 Aug 2020
In reply to HeMa:

Can’t be bothered to look up either, but off the top of my head Stefano Ghisolfi & Jakob Schubert

 ian caton 11 Aug 2020
In reply to AlanLittle:

And sharma. 

Wonder what the warm looks like. Couple of easy 8bs, maybe an 8c or two. Then have at it? 

 Spanish Jack 11 Aug 2020
In reply to HeMa:

If you ever come across the rotpunkt film, he has two fat books full of routes he ticked 8a and harder. Further, in the movie it also gets explained that until now, he didn't enjoy projects. He always rather did something in a few goes. I reckon this might be a turning point in Megos's approach to projects.

 Spanish Jack 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Martin Haworth:

Ondra said in an interview that he can't imagine himself break into 10a. 

 GrantM 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Spanish Jack:

He mentions 10b in his latest video on climbing grades because grade progression has slowed since the rapid development of the 1980s.

youtube.com/watch?v=tDB4b1w8ATc&

 HeMa 11 Aug 2020
In reply to AlanLittle:

Good, so then it is confirmed (to an extent anyway).

Because for a such a thin "top end" of the pyramid, having only on repeated routes is not a good start. Even if the proven track record for a tad easier routes is certainly there (heck, he beat Ondra for the first 9a OS by a few months if I recall correctly).

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 Robert Durran 11 Aug 2020
In reply to GrantM:

> He mentions 10b in his latest video on climbing grades because grade progression has slowed since the rapid development of the 1980s.

His discussion of grades doesn't make sense to me there. He says that there is no "mathematical formula" for grades (obviously) and that grading is subjective but then claims grades are somehow "linear" and puts them up the axis of a graph (this seems meaningless if they are subjective and not actually measurable) against time and uses the graph to claim that grades are growing more slowly now than in the 80's. His argument that this is because gains become increasingly more difficult seems odd - that extra perceived difficulty should result in higher grades! If an extra 1cm on the world pole vault record is as hard won as 10cm in the 80's then the achievements are comparable and not different by a factor of ten.

Post edited at 10:42
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 john arran 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

But it isn't about how "hard won" an increase is, it's about whether people perceive one or more significant increases in difficulty between the two levels. With Pole Vault, I'm assuming the grade-width is 1cm which, presumably, is taken to be the smallest increase that vaulters operating at that level are likely to be able to recognise. Climbing grades are more complicated than that because of morpho strengths but the grade sizes and boundaries are similarly based on minimum agreed noticeable increments. While accuracy and consistency will always be troublesome, I don't see why the only-just significant increase between, say, 8a and 8a+ should in general be any different is 'size' to that between 9a and 9a+.

 Xavierpercy 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

I guess the point he is making is that a “sports“ attitude to climbing was embraced. Proper training, redpoint tactics, better equipment etc. Adam has all of this and has to physically improve to climb harder.

 Robert Durran 11 Aug 2020
In reply to john arran:

> But it isn't about how "hard won" an increase is, it's about whether people perceive one or more significant increases in difficulty between the two levels.

But how do you "measure" that except by how "hard won" it feels?

> Grade sizes and boundaries are similarly based on minimum agreed noticeable increments.

But we can notice the difference between soft 7a and tough 7a, so I don't think it is a minimum. It comes back to feeling similarly hard won. Perhaps for the likes of Ondra or Megos how many days it takes. 

 john arran 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

You're right, in a sense, that most grades are determined by the subjective perception of difficulty, but statistically such subjectivity can become much closer to objective.

Also, we can imagine a formula that states that for climbers who take on average n attempts to redpoint routes of grade x, then on average they will take cn attempts to redpoint routes of grade x+1, where c is a statistically derived constant. I don't see why c should not be independent of x.

 GrahamD 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

I'm talking way out of my league here, of course, but it is noticeable to me how the cutting edge routes are increasingly being broken into a combination of route and bouldering grades (so 8a into Font 8a into 8c, for instance).

To me that makes top end route grading more objective (with the caveat that there is a concensus on the 'easier' constituent parts of the route, of course)

 Robert Durran 11 Aug 2020
In reply to john arran:

> You're right, in a sense, that most grades are determined by the subjective perception of difficulty, but statistically such subjectivity can become much closer to objective.

> Also, we can imagine a formula that states that for climbers who take on average n attempts to redpoint routes of grade x, then on average they will take cn attempts to redpoint routes of grade x+1, where c is a statistically derived constant. I don't see why c should not be independent of x.

But I don't see how c could be independent of the climber. For Ondra it would not even kick in up to 8c because he is onsighting, but for me it might tend to infinity at about 8a (and therefore not even be independent of n). 

I think the best we can do is have some sort of such formula to that only applies to Ondra in the era of Ondra and then another for whoever takes over from him in pushing the limits.

What I don't think is possible is to say is that progression is slowing down - it just seems meaningless to me. Even if we are asymptotically approaching a human limit that does not mean grades are approaching a limit (any more than X is just because 1/X is). Grades will keep going up as tiny physical increments become incredibly hard won.

Post edited at 11:30
 john arran 11 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> But I don't see how c could be independent of the climber. For Ondra it would not even kick in up to 8c because he is onsighting, but for me it might tend to infinity at about 8a (and therefore not even be independent of n). 

Well, morpho variability aside, I was talking of statistical averages rather than individual experiences per se. Although to address your two extremes, onsights will include everything at or below a difficulty where n=1 and, by virtue of the discrete nature of the data, all n values lower than 1 must be rounded up, rendering the formula fairly meaningless for people on easy routes for them. Your infinity extreme could also be explained by the limiting factor being how long you're prepared to work at a route, and/or how many days/years you have left before your performance level will degrade due to age!


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