UKC

Just seen a post from Stonethwaite Campsite (adjacent to Borrowdale) on FB.

They'll be closing on Thursday (20th) for the foreseeable future. They've got fed up of dealing with dickheads and clearing up the mess.

Even more of them infesting the lay-bys and verges.

Don't blame them then. Pity.

My fears too, at least confined to a location it is easier to clear up the mess. 

An increase in fees and/or a "clear pitch" deposit may have been a better action. 

Ditto. Had to shake my head at one of the comments "You should simply enforce new rules and kick offenders off the site".

I wouldn't fancy scrapping with pissed up blokes at 4 in the morning!

Walked through recently, looked ok. But maybe they'd had a clear up? Loads of bottles and cans piled up. Big pile of broken camping gear right next to the 'No broken camping gear here please' sign

Shame, it's a nice spot.

Ah what a shame. Can you really blame them though?

Some of my best days starting out with all this outdoor jazz started with the owner wandering around at 6am waking everyone up asking for campsite fees! 

We had a few days there in July  - great spot and great hosts. 80% of customers seemed like regular folk  - as usual, the 20% spoil it. The only solution would be to employ a security guard/team  - what the hell has the world come to! 

The more time I spend in England the more convinced I am that we just can't have nice things. Nice mountain area? OK, we'll shit all over it. Nice bit of moorland? We'll burn it down for you. Lovely little beauty spot next to some houses where you can relax after work? We'll fill it full of litter and NOX containers. It really makes me want to emigrate sometimes. It's always depressing coming back from somewhere like Norway back to England and seeing the difference. I don't even think our population is that bad but with such a high population density it only takes a very small proportion to trash the place.

I get left thinking that I just have to be part of the solution as I can't change others. 

Does that mean picking their litter up? I'm not sure our self-sacrifice of cleaning up after these people really helps, I think it just enables them to be honest. They honestly think that it's fine ti leave the litter as somebody will be along to clean it up. And you make the area look nice for the next lot of idiots who will trash it.

I think there is no solution really. I've had a lot of experience with the people who do this and there is literally nothing that will stop them. I think over population has just spoiled an aweful lot of things and that's just that.

There is a solution  - but it's a pragmatic one rather than an idealistic one. Ideally you leave the shit there  - and eventually people realise the error of their ways and change. In reality that won't happen. 

We have to slap a levy in some way on people entering or maybe just staying in national parks (as in France) and fund litter police/picker uppers. 

I saw it on Saturday, it looked like a cross between Glastonbury, Mad Max and Apocalypse Now

I think a levy would be hte way to go but I think the only people who would pay it would be those who don't drop litter. Are we really the kind of country that would have picker-uppers? Despite all the council tax we pay we get bins emptied once per fortnight. We barely have functioning infrastructure in the cities so I can't see anything like this happening in the countryside.

I agree it doesn't change their mind but picking up litter helps to make it a nicer place for me and my family.

Speaking as one who worked with people who never did any cleaning up. I realise there is never a point where they realise the filth around them and in fact it encourages people who would not litter to think that is is okay to trash something.

No. It means I'm not going to drop litter, I'm going to try to not buy single use stuff in the first place so I've got little to through away even at home, I'm not going to go to honeypots in busy times adding to the problem, I'm going to stay local whenever I can and make the most of what is around me, I'm going to try to influence others positively, I'm going to vote green (certainly not Conservative), I'm going to support any policy that encourages people to get out of their cars, etc

I've never stayed at the Stonethwaite site - mainly because I like my car to have an intact sump - but have walked past plenty of times. I've noticed several times (pre-covid) it seems to be a bit of a magnet for antisocial types - there's often large amounts of litter, loud music or evidence of open fires. The Chapel House Farm one isn't in quite as nice a setting but the owner seems to be a bit more proactive in moving trouble makers on.

its not just England - it is happening all over the UK at the moment. Covid seems to have affected some people's sense of caring for their environment - if they ever had one

I think they were always like that but they would normally be somewhere else at this time of year. The biggest protection our countryside enjoyed was the fact that the people who would trash it were not interested in visiting it.

That's a shame, I hoped Scotland would have missed this. I'm off to Argyl soon I hope that's OK!

My experience too. One year I passed though and they had an open-sided marquee and a big sound system. I could still hear the music over near Eagle crag. Hard to comprehend in a national park, and I remember it made me feel sad and angry.

Stoneth waite has always been more tolerant of the party crowd than other lakes campsites and may be reaping what was sown.

It isn't uncommon walking through in the morning to see folks enjoying a Stella and spliff breakfast. Each to their own. 

Having this contained in one or two sites across the park limits the impact on the environment and other users. 

My sympathies to those who unwittingly camped there expecting quiet contemplation. I would only ever stay there for a party. 

I've avoided the site for the last 10 years or so for the same reason.  It's a shame, as it's in a lovely location, and was nice and peaceful when I first went there in the late 1990s.

As someone else has already said, the Chapel House Farm site is much better managed and more civilised.

So sad to hear this I've used this site on and off since the early sixties when there was one tap and the bog was a large tin can. It seems that the 'scratters' are intent on spoiling everything. As someone who sometimes has to go into their homes and sees the rotting rubbish in their gardens and yards I believe I'm not alone in wishing Covid was more selective, 

Local council rule changes for municipal tips have made Scotland one of the worst places in Europe* for fly tipping.  The only time you'll hear my wife swearing is when we're driving some of the back roads in West Lothian and Lanarkshire. 

* based purely on my own observations and no official figures. 

I remember that. We used to camp on the little island just past the campsite in the early 80s (now forbidden), and he'd rock up really early with his collie, shake the tent and shout, "Wakey, wakey". A pound each or something.

I initally read the "based purely on my own observations and no official figures" to be about hearing your wife swearing.

I'd suggest searching people at point of entry to see if they're carrying any litter with them. If they are, confiscate it and put it straight in the bin.

What a sorry sack of shite. Our family are staying at home this year, and probably next too if the Spanish resorts aren't open and quarantine lifted. It would break my heart to see this going on and I'd probably end up fighting too often as I would struggle with the antisocial behaviour.

We English are a shameful bunch in part.

Would it be so hard to drive the scumbags out?

We haven't used the Stonethwaite one. I dont know why but it always struck me as somewhere that might suffer from the noisy, dump crap everywhere brigade.  That's probably unfair on my part though. 

Have used the small one at the entrance to the road to Stonethwaite road. It was clear from the start that if the polite but very firm owner didn't like the speed I drove to the pitch, or indeed how prettily I parked when I got there I wouldn't be staying....

Sites that suffer from the idiots could have a regulars "list", many we stay at have this informally and that affects whether they are "full" or not when you arrive. Nonn regulars, if allowed in at all, pay a big deposit refundable on their clean and hassle free departure. Totally agree that trying to reason with a bunch of beer'd up w*nkers, or indeed to appeal to their sense or better nature once they are pitched up and partying is a waste of time. 

Shame about Stonethwaite though.

Just need to adopt the firm approach:

youtube.com/watch?v=HjByy1Sf4XE&

Yes, we should move to a society where there is less to buy that will be quickly chucked out. A circular economy as they say. There are signs of change, but there needs to be more legislation to encourage it. If I bought a single use barbecue, I wouldn't really fancy walking home with a greasy, smoked tray of metal.......I'd be very tempted to discretely put it somewhere. Even I did get it home and put it in the bin, its still got to go somewhere. 

It would break my heart to see this going on and I'd probably end up fighting too often as I would struggle with the antisocial behaviour.

Awesome work there, sheer poetry. 

Is it bad of me to wonder if 3 months ago, the campsite owners were bemoaning the lockdown and lack of revenue? 

Anyway, back to sneering at the lower classes. 

Regulars could be quietly handed pickaxe handles to deal with shitites.  A quiet patrol carrying a big stick should send a message

I can remember us trying to get to sleep with a baby at the Plantation one summer evening.   All but one group were behaving well.  At 1 am they were still so noisy I went on a haranguing screech to them at the loudest I could manage, all stops out.

They were gone next morning

Sheesh, you really do want it all don't you. 

Stay overnight in a car park and dictate the behaviour of others too. 

What next, directing the doggers? 

"you don't want to do it that way, do it like this" 

Sneering at anti-social behaviour and littering, surely?

Or is it your case that these activities are an exclusive and inherent cultural expression by a particular socio-economic group and must be accepted and respected? If so, that sounds a bit classist and patronising to me.

I was loosely referring to the proper campsite that is down the road at that end of Stanage.  Sorry for confusing you.

Drive the scumbags out with pick axe handles? For dropping litter? Really?

Not at all, as I stated upthread, I feel sorry for those at Stonetnwaite who arrive for a quiet time, as much as I feel sorry for the party crowd who arrive at a family oriented campsite to be shushed at every move. Like most, I have been both, not all are prepared to admit it though. 

Stonethwaite is/was pretty well known as a more tolerant campsite.

Littering/abandoning of kit can be dealt with and is more easily dealt with in a confined location. Closing the campsite was a poor move as it spreads this load elsewhere. A better move may have been to increase fees and/or introduce a clean pitch deposit to cover the increased cleaning costs.

I am not condoning the littering or the poor behaviour, I am recognising that it will happen and proposing ways to deal with it.

Ways which do not involve pick axe handles. 

no, for denying people the right to a good night's sleep and for imposing hell on others

litter and unsanitary behaviour is part of that of course

And when your above mentioned baby starts inconsolabley screeching in the early hours? 

That's different? 

Bear in mind the CEO of the National Park Authority wants MORE people to come to the Lake District.

How he survives in his highly-paid electric {steam-powered} car-driving role is a mystery to all and has been for many years.

Reality check required and some sense of respect for the indigenous locals. The Lake District always had visitors for nearly 200 years, it has worked well until the quangos and world heritage shite etc developed, oversold and ruined the place with their totalitarian greed.

DC

Next you’ll be saying it’s all a large interconnected set of organisations and regulatory oversite working in cahoots to create jobs for the boys, provide perks like cars and spending accounts and start lining the bigwigs up for honours etc at the expense of those on the ground... 

How about a £50 deposit refundable on departure?

To be fair the baby isn't making a conscious decision to be a dickhead.

The baby isn't but the parents made a conscious decision to take him/her to a campsite. 

the baby in question was a good sleeper from the point his colic suddenly ended, well before this trip.  The colic went on from about 9.30 to about 1am for months, a period of my life I would not care to repeat.

We would not have gone on the camping trip with a baby who screamed through the night - would have been a pointless and painful exercise for us too so Presley's point is ill made, possibly ill intended, at the very least full of arsumptions

ps, I must have walked miles round our tiny flat with him as it was my shoulder that seemed to be best at comforting him during these evenings.

conscious and well informed with regard to the baby and our camping and organisational ability, thanks ...

That phrase doesn't really make people warm to your posts.

This is how to deal with wankers who dump shit everywhere:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/flytip...

I got fed up with camping in the Lakes 10 years ago and refuse to do so. It has been appalling for some time. The days of it being an enjoyable experience have long gone.

Stonethwaite has always had these issues imho.

The Lakes is a gentrified experience these days, still enjoyable when you can find peace. But camping there  is a fools game these days.

And do not get me started on camper vans, fine in the USA, here they are an abonomation.

Being a dick has nothing to do with class, in the very same way that being a chav has nothing to do with money.

'Arsumptions'? Are they kind of 'arsey assumptions'?

me too but slightly later and £3- harsh but fair i thank him for getting my flat car out with his tractor back in the day.

i reckon someone is planning a new sitcom - Carry on Camping 2.0 or somesuch- maybe two campsite owners with contrasting characters who deal with covid campers in different ways- with hilarious results!

Indeed.  What is so precious about Cumbrian indigenous locals  (whateverthe definition of one of those is) ? Other than they are already lucky to be living where they do.

Or you could say, as in anywhere else in the world, when in Rome .. .. .. 

It's called respect, politeness.

DC

Very true. The move to make some of the best rural areas more 'exciting' has brought people to those areas who have no interest or understanding of them. Some would never have dreamt of going there before the areas were allegedly made more interesting by publicity.

Dave 

Sad to hear, had many a happy weekend there going back to the early 80s with the Notts Uni Explorers Club. Particularly remember some of the group cooking fresh trout.