UKC

Heh folks, hope all is well in the homeland. What a season it is out here with routes in good nick across the alps. I'm stoked that Dave got his route in, he was well on fire out here and sure to to make a mark that I'm sure is only the beginning of the BIG Stuff to go. The team are making an unprecedented mark on the continent, pretty much clearing up the hardest thats around. I'm in Cogne at the moment with two weeks to go and only three routes left on the list to go Vertical, X files and Tomahawk, with the big ones out the way it should be plain sailing givin good conditions. Anyway, the list so far is:

Mission Impossible M11 2nd redpoint
Empire Strikes Back M11 3rd Redpoint (crux hold broke on 2nd go - now harder) 1st British Repeat
Tool Time M10+ (2nd Redpoint)
White Out M10+ (apres crux hold broke by Anna Torreta now solid M10+)
Captain Hook M10
Twin Towers M10
Slice of Scheiss M10
Power Bat M10
Power Limit M10 Beta Flash
Pink Panther M9+
Samurai M8 First Ascent
La Ramp M6+
Les Dragonnes M6+

It looks promising for all those that have been training all summer!! Will report back once the rest complete and whilst back in Colorado and Canada. Oh I got disqualified at Saas Fee for touchin one of the lines - a great experience none the less and was at the world cup meeting to discuss a round in Scotland!! will report on return and require some assistance to organise.

Meantime stroll on! The future is bright

Scott Muir
Fuelled by The Big Bad Red Bull

Scarpa - Grivel - Mountain Equipment - Edelrid Ropes - Tiso

Oh forgot to add -

Chris Cubitts onsight flash of Mission Impossible must be one of the finest British Mixed climbing achievements - awesome to watch and a privelege to be their on the day.

Magic

In reply to Scott Muir:

Sorry, I'm confused. Why is this reported in the "UK Winter Climbing Forum"? Is "Rock Destinations" more appropriate?

Isn't this a premier post ie advert for red bull?

HJ

In reply to Hugh Jardon:

And Scarpa - Grivel - Mountain Equipment - Edelrid Ropes - Tiso

In reply to colski:

I'm surprised there hasn't been a stronger reaction to this blatant bit of commercial willy-waving.

In reply to DougG:

I always the boy Muir was regarded as a bit of a joke on this forum.

In reply to Scott Muir:



Yawn....................

In reply to SimonW:

The more I re-read it, the more I think "worra tossa".

In reply to colski:

Is it a wind-up? I can't believe anyone would post such a ego-inflating post.

In reply to SimonW:

Unfortunately I believe it's 100% genuine.

In reply to DougG:

This was at planetfear.com

"January 21 2004: British Climbers Kick Ice

An on form British team of mixed climbers consisting of Chris Cubitt, Dave MacLeod, Scott Muir and Matt Spenceley have just left the new world class mixed venue of Uschinen in Switzerland after making some world class ascents in quick times.

The biggest repeats were Cubitt and MacLeod's ascents of Vertical Limit M12 (one of only 4 M12s worldwide). Cubitt took just three tries and MacLeod five tries to redpoint the 45 metre roof climb, first climbed by Robert Jasper last year. The World's best female mixed climber, Ines Papert also repeated Vertical Limit, the first ascent of this grade by a female. Chris, Dave, Scott and Matt also pulled off a brace of M10 repeats, the best efforts being Scott's flash of Power Limit M10 and Chris' onsight of Pink Panther M9+.

Dave has returned to Scotland to rock climb, but the rest of the team are moving on to the Ice world championships in Saas Fee this weekend and then on to Italy to climb The big Haston routes. Good luck guys!

Chris Cubitt:

* Vertical Limit M12 three tries
* Pink Panther M9+ onsight
* Slice of Scheiss M10- 1st RP
* Power Limit M10 1st RP
* Tool Time M10+ 1st RP
* Power Bat M10- 1st RP
* Via Regine M9- onsight

Dave MacLeod:

* Vertical Limit M12 five tries
* Tool Time M10+ 1st RP
* Power Limit M10 1st RP
* Twin Towers M10 1st RP
* Power Bat M10- 1st RP
* Roth M8- onsight

Scott Muir:

* Tool Time M10+ 2nd RP
* Power Limit M10 flash
* Twin Towers M10 1st RP
* Power Bat M10- 2nd RP
* Slice of Scheiss M10- 1st RP
* Pink Panther M9+ 1st RP
* Samurai M8 first ascent

Matt Spenceley:

* Power Limit M10 1st RP
* Power Bat M10- 1st RP
* Slice of Scheiss M10- 1st RP
"

In reply to Scott Muir:

Are you the biggest, bigheaded bighead from bigheadland?

In reply to SimonW: its amazing what you can do with the safety of bolts!!!

In reply to Scott Muir: I've just seen the future. Where's am coat?

In reply to ph1969:

*yawn*

All i can see is the usual slagging off against someone who, judging from the Planetfear extract, has done pretty damn well. This someone also appears to be in the British team.

I've seen far worse 'big up my fat chest' statements than old Muir's.

In reply to Scott Muir:
Scott, that is just so excellent! You must be very proud of yourself
Do you want to see my list for this winter? Och, i maybe won't bother, it's not very impressive compared with yours..
*sigh*
Wish i was a superstar

In reply to Scott Muir:

Scott, it's great that you've had a good season and have been getting lots done. But coming on here and essentially bragging about it just further alienates you from the majority of UK climbers.

Is that what you were hoping to achieve?

In reply to DrGav:

If you're tired then go to bed

I think most people take the view that if you big up yerself,you come across as a bighead and who really likes bigheads?

In reply to Anonymous:

So if he'd posted the same achievements but in a more modest way that'd be cool?

Hope so...

In reply to Stuart S:


He's soooooooooo American.....a bit like Tony Blair.

In reply to Scott Muir:
if you were to head to the ben or glen coe or scotland and do an M9 what would that equate to in the scottish way of grading............

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA: Or you, Hey Mikey, Dudester!

I met Scott in Cogne last year, he seemed alright to me - dead enthusiastic and genuine.

Modern Euro style mixed climbing is a bit hard to get yer head around, until you see it up close (even then, some of the manufactured placements left me non-plussed - not that all routes out there are like that, many I'm told are entirely natural). But I was disturbed by what I saw (in a good way, of course) - a bit like the first time I went to Volx many moons ago and saw whippet framed Frenchies lapping routes I couldn't even bolt to bolt. It's a different sport for sure, and has little to do with trad winter climbing practised in Scotland (and occasionally in Wales and the Lakes).

Mind you, Dave MaCleod appears to be able to excel in all styles - a truly modern all rounder.

I do agree about the sponsorship references - tone it down Scott and leave it for the photo shoots.

In reply to Scott Muir:

Hi Scott,

I see that you're having a nice time in in the Alps.

Are you planning to do any winter ascents of mountain routes out here or are you confining yourself to cragging?

With all this training you're doing I'm looking forward to reading about you coming back to Scotland and flashing something impressive like Guerdon Grooves or Mort. That would certainly shut up all those folk who keep calling you a publicity seeking tit.

By the way I'm sure you'll want to congratulate James E and his pal Sam who did Citadel on Saturday. I realise it's not as hard as the stuff you're cranking up now but I thought the dedication reqyired for the pre dawn walk in in really snowy conditions, sticking with it until they topped out at 11:30 and then the trudge back was worthy of a slap on the back.

Cheers,

Eric

In reply to YOUTH:

Good Friday Climb, Grade III on a category five high risk day = M9

In reply to Scott Muir:
Keep on crankin big boy.
Since my retirement, I have taken up walking up stairs with my hands in my pockets.
You should try it. The future of Scottish Winter Climbing depends on it. Don't listen to all those naysayers. I for one, know that you - Scat are the chosen one.
keep the faith
Alan M.

In reply to Scott Muir: : The reason Alan is so PRO and most folk are so CON is because Alan knows what you have to do to make a descent living in this game if you choose not to become part of the tourist industry. Please the sponsors, shout louder, train like hell, push, push, push, on the hill and off. I saw it close up in the 80s when some folk I knew were breaking new ground by starting to make a living in climbing without the old method of writing books. The same grones are being emitted now.

This doesnt mean I like what they are doing or I think I am better or purer. It just means I think I can see how this works. You can only stop it eclipsing it. Go on: lets see you try!!!

Good point questioning why its in a UK Winter Climbing thread though.

(Alan: how is the old skeleton bearing up? Drop me an email. Jim)

In reply to Scott Muir:

How 2002, in the meantime Canada just got its first M13.

In reply to JimF:
The reason that JimF is so GULLIBLE..........

I was going to write something different but hey Scott good effort by the sounds of it, hope you enjoy your climbing.
Its not like we haven't all exercised our egos and we all have to make a living. Andy

In reply to andrew ogilvie:

I agree with Andy.

Scott will be accused of "cragging", "sport-climbing", "willy-waving" etc etc etc. Scott will accuse others of not being strong and having no idea how hard these routes are. Lots of people will call each other rude names. Lots of other people will get quite bored reading the same stuff again and again.

One idea that it does leave me with is that ice climbing on the continent is neither "UK winter climbing", nor is it "Expedition and Alpine" - really we could do with a seperate forum. Its the same with the photo gallery sections. Lots of pictures in my gallery are of 20-25mtr icefalls, three minute walks away from the carpark. Hardly an expedition, and definitely not alpine - but not in the UK so not UK winter climbing either. Perhaps we could just drop the UK bit from "UK winterclimbing"?

Good effort Scott, but you knew the sponsor bull-shit was going to wind people up didn't you?!

In reply to TobyA:

Indeed, good effort, but why the need to come on here and essentially brag about it? Presumably to show his sponsors all the free publicity? As someone said, there are premium posts for that now.

DougG

Fuelled by A Regular Coffee To Go from The Lemon Tree, Aberdeen Station.

In reply to DougG: I do agree that it is self aggrandisement of the highest order, particularly with the adverts at the bottom (although it's up to Alan, Andy, Charles et al to decide if he's broken some rule), perhaps he should have just emailed it to the news section of the site.

BUT this is news, I think Haston is the only other Brit to have done these routes - they are of a world standard. Certain amount of sour grapes I would say, but then again Mr. Muir's approach is straight out of the Rumsfeld School of Diplomacy.

BTW was it "our" James E who did Citadel? If so - well done that man!

In reply to TobyA: Forgot to add:

TobyA fueled by the black-glooppy-stuff that masquerades as coffee in our office pot

In reply to TobyA:
Agreed its an impressive list of routes, and newsworthy but for either his first ever post here, or at least first for a while it does look like boasting, willy waving, etc in a silly schoolboy manner. As for the advertising I'm a bit surprised Alan, etc haven't edited the initial post

Doug
(just finishing 'un express' - coffee with flavour, unlike the stuff I suffered in Finland

In reply to Scott Muir:
well, i'm not sure this isn't some big wind up. its a .co.uk sign in and i thought he was still on mainland europe? the best windups are allways the most plausible ones.
j

In reply to James Edwards: could well be - but far more interestingly did you sir, climb Citadel on saturday?

If so jolly well done and a big UKclimbing slap on the back.

In reply to Scott Muir: well done you are obviously an ultimate beast.
Jealousy will get you no where folks. Why bother coming on here just to piss people off. As far as i see it all he does is go out climbing and because its way harder than all you and me can climb you feel the need to slag him off. its all very sad i'm afraid!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to TobyA:
it woulb only be m6, so in one way not very impressive!

In reply to Scott Muir: what about that young canadian in cogne who did the route you had been trying for over 2 weeks he cruised it first attempt? if your going to brag and dis scottish winter climbing please make sure you are up there with the best first

In reply to James Edwards:

M7 X, at least I reckon! Good on you anyway. How did it go? Epic? Nice weather? Decent ledges for tea and biscuits?

The original post seemed to suggest you had a looooonnnnnnnng day out? Are there going to be piccies in your gallery?

cheers
Toby.

In reply to Dangerous Dave: Clearly they are very fine ascents by Scott, but attaching your sponsors to your post is just asking for trouble.

Intriguing that NOBODY on Scottishclimbs.com has registered the same sort of objections to Scott's identical post on there, indeed the general tone is one of "big-upping" What does this tell us?

In reply to Anon:

This one has clearly gone right over your head then.

http://www.scottishclimbs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1151

In reply to Anon:

Dear Anon

Having looked at the Scottishclimbs.com site, it tells me more people use this site.

Why are you anonymous? Have you something to hide?

Norrie

In reply to Scott Muir:

Not that I approve of flagrant sponsor toting, the 'boys' have had a good season it seems.

Ask your self one question if you were being paid to travel the world climb the best routes with your choice of gear, in return all you had to do was fly the flag for those picking up the tab. Would you post messages like this. 'oh I wouldnt dream of it' yeah right!

I bet scott points out these posting to his sponsor along with his abilities labels on gear etc. all these things means hes gonna keep getting the golden tickets! Small price.

But check out the scottishclimbs.com posting in DougG's posting its a cracker and a little more intelligent than most of these.

jools
fuelled by .... err jools.

In reply to jools:
The posting in Doug G's link is indeed a cracker
Tony S

Currently fuelled by:-
Nambarrie T - Halls Lorne Sausage - Mother's Pride White
(Food for Scottish Mountaineers)

In reply to jools:

Given the reaction, no I wouldn't. I wonder what his sposnors would think if they read this thread?

In reply to Scott Muir: x files will be plain sailing? Im sure this is the route the canadian lad cruised 1st go, 2 weeks and you still havent nailed it dude, if at first you dont succeed try try again

all us scottish bumblies back in the homeland look forward to hearing your progress on the proper big hard mixed routes in canada

In reply to James Edwards:

......... and it seems odd that his own web site has not been updated. After all, it's where you would think that you would announce this stuff first.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

The reaction is limited to here and its a big reaction which means, irrelevant of of our group consensus, each time someone reads it the brand is branded at its that what counts in marketing.

I would add that a lot of the comments are of green eyes and that adds to the marketing, envy=desire=ambition=£ to any marketing campaign!

(waiting to duck the flak for the green eyes comment

hey but its true, I'd tattoo my ass if someone would pay for me to travel the world rather than sat at a desk! And I'd show it here!!!

jools
fuelled by costa and croissants (so far)

Jealousy....jealousy...blah de blah....jealousy....you should have been wearing hob nail boots scott, you wimp....blah, blah, blah.

I soloed Jacabs Ladder last season.

Thanks to super powered Golden Virginia.

beer-tabs-drugs

That's the way.

In reply to Scott Muir:

Well done Scott with Mission and Empire
I'm sure you'll breeze up X Files, those ice fangs are the biggest they've been in years.

What a laugh you lot are, hook line and sinker every time

The guy climbs rock, he climbs ice, he cranks up some of the hardest mixed routes in the world.

He's one of the only guides out there to lead clients up second ascents of Scottish 7...... If you knew him, you'd know he's a decent guy, but... Oh, but he's sponsored and is trying to make a living...

Get a life folks!

In reply to Hairy McSporran:


Bollocks. When Neil Bently climbed Equilibrium did he come on here beating his chest? Likewise Steve McClure after his lastest 9a ascent or Malc Smith after putting up Monk Life.

No. They didn't need to as they know their achievements are enough to make into the press and I dare say Scott's are. If he's that desperate for publicity that he has to come onto this forum and write his title in the third person then perhaps he needs an agent? Perhaps the one that Jordan uses............

I aint no mixed expert, but I've flailed on a few...

My understanding is that Empire/X Files are not bolted clip ups.

Cubitt flashing Empire sounds pretty world class to me - it's way harder to on-sight/flash on this type of limestone than redpoint it.

If Cubitt reckons Vertical Limit (M12) is like doing a F8a+ or 8b and M13 is the current top proposed grade, it's not surprising that the Brits who quickly applying themselves (i.e. the grades have got a long way to go).

From my flailing and limited experience, I'd say these routes have got lots more to do with sport climbing than with Scottish winter climbing.

In reply to DaveR:

I soloed into a k-hole. No problems whatsoever.

In reply to DrGav: It's all about seperating your mind from the physical surroundings...

Some call it entering the zone...I reckon they've just been on the special k for breaky

In reply to Scott Muir: Hey Scott, Chris and the gang congrats to you all a fine season of cranking. How was the ice pitch on X files? Don't think thats had a second ascent at all. Did you do all 4 pitches in one consecutive push - not sure thats been done at all, you could claim the first proper ascent!!

In reply to Ian Parnell: Sorry mean Empire of course!!

In reply to Ian Parnell:

You're a well respected sort of guy Ian, with some impressive ticks, but you dont brag about them on here so do you have a view on scotts blatant sponsor plugging bragging ?

In reply to ph1969:

What do you mean?? Ian has his own column in a magazine to spray!!

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
There is a big difference because you read his artcles and do not imediately think "big headed prat"

In reply to Scott Muir: not sure if this is a deliberate windup or it is your words (your proxy address is uk based?), if its a windup its a cracker, and one I would have been proud of myself!
I'll presume it isnt a windup though..

This whole thread is split into two camps.
1.The big number chasers and hero worshippers
2.The anti-commercialisation traditionalists amd non-hero worshippers

I fit into category 2.

I must admit I did get quite excited when I heard news of Cubbit and Macleods ascent of Vertical limit, good on them, and particularly since Dave is a Scottish winter climber. And then more great news when Dave returned here to make a technical landmark on Scottish winter climbing history on that home from home of the weegie, The Cobbler.
However, I still find that this whole publicity and 'photo shoots' business spoils these achievements.
And yet despite all this hype, perhaps the most important winter ascent this season in Scotland, which happened at the weekend, has only been mentioned to friends and acquantances of the first ascentionists and remains pretty much unknown.
This ascent appears to have all the ingredients of a Scottish winter legend.. a very long hard route on one of the most intriguing cliffs in the UK and one which is hardly ever in good nick with absolutely immaculate timing to get the reputedly perfect conditions. A once-in-a-lifetime route? probably..

so which of these important ascents has inspired me the most? answers on a postcard to EB@rantrantrant.co.uk

In reply to EB:

I'd say there's a third camp, of those who think the achievements of the whole team - Scott, Dave, Chris and Matt - are pretty impressive, but who are slightly uncomfortable with Scott's less-than-subtle announcements. It's a shame that some of your Camp 2 followers can't see beyond their prejudice and give credit where it's due. It's also a shame that Scott manages to come across as a bit of a prick.

And as for being inspired - well, it's a bit hard to be inspired by something I don't know about. This near-legendary new route you talk about may well be the most important thing to happen in Scotland, but if few people get to know about it, it's impossible to give it credit.

In reply to tony: I mentioned this ascent as it is at the opposite end of the commercialisation spectrum. But it is of great importance and insipiration and shows what traditional, yet truely modern, Scottish winter climbers with the right mix of talent, adventure and Scottish mountaineering savvy can achieve. (and manage to hold down a full-time job too!).

In reply to Scott Muir:

Nice one Scott, keep up the good work!!

In reply to SimonW:

>When Neil Bently climbed Equilibrium did he come on here beating his chest

He wasn't quite beating his chest. But he did have a video made, in case you hadn't noticed. And, dare I say it, it got quite hyped up (quick, let's beat up on Neil for having something to do with himself hyped-up!). And barring some sweaty palm action for me, I thought the vid was cr*p and certainly not worth the money. But, that's not to take anything away from Neil...

I do not think the dividing line between Scott and other climbers is that great - either talking about hype or ability. All the top climbers have a photographer nearby and any landmark ascent or even repeat makes front cover of the waste of money mags. Maybe, just maybe, Scott didn't have someone plugged into the wall videoing or photographing his ascents this time round and maybe he just wants the slice of the same commercial pie that everyone else is eating?

Maybe. And of course, I think it's a bit rich to criticise someone when the post was made by an unregistered user. Anyone could've spoofed that message (hey someone could be spoofing me, or maybe someone else was using 'Dirt' before me?). There's no way to know for sure that the person you are criticising is the person who posted.

>his title in the third person

What should he have written? "I repeated Empire and Mission Impossible" or "He repeated Empire and Mission Impossible" or "Bloke called Scott repeated Empire and Mission Impossible" or "Empire and Mission Impossible repeated again (by me)"? I can't see many much better alternatives myself. But I'm not that creative either, so maybe you have a better idea?

D

In reply to EB:


Why won't you tell us? Is it secret? Or are they waiting to announce it in the magazines?

In reply to TobyA:

If you mean The Cathedral Grade X,11. FA ground up/ on sight at the 2nd attempt. by Dumby Dave then look at scottishclimbs...

"From my flailing and limited experience, I'd say these routes have got lots more to do with sport climbing than with Scottish winter climbing."

Limited experience is no substitute for a bit of insight - well said my man. It really is time everyone stopped comparing chalk with cheese. This has as much to do with Scottish winter mountaineering as bouldering at Hampi.

In reply to gr:

No I don't. Dave Mc's effort is said to be the second best climb of the weekend...

In reply to TobyA:

Hi Toby,

The most important ascent of the weekend was.......

Pedraforca, Spain.

Because that was the only one I was involved in.

Or does saying that make me a big headed bugger for announcing it?

Expresso
Morrocan
Lamb Chops

>

T

In reply to DrGav:



Can you please change your name DrGav. I am concerned that people will think that your nonsensical sycophantic defences of muir's behaviour emanate from my keyboard.

the real dr gav

fuelled by blue label voddie and hotdogs with dried onions aaah

In reply to Scott Muir:

Thanks for the report Scott.

With the commercial/sponsorship references this should have been a Premier Post http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/premier.html

If we had spotted it earlier we would have censored it and asked you to re-submit.
As it has had so many replies we are leaving it up on this occasion.

5 days and 72 posts later and the moderators notice this thread. Even though 'Tom UKC news editor' posted on it back on wednesday.

Meanwhile: stroll on, the future is grim.

Colski
Fuelled by Tennents, probably the best lager in Scotland and also Twiglets, the best yeast flavoured snack I can think of.

In reply to Scott Muir:

Well 4 days ago X-files had continous ice in it - so when and if you flash/red point/second/whatever it I hope you'll have the good grace not to call it M10 (which it probably was when Stevie Haston first climbed it - but sure isn't now).

Rory Chisholm

In reply to TobyA:

So?

In reply to Scott Muir:

I like the way that the tick-list is ordered by grade rather than date. Do grades really matter that much?

I flashed an F6b+ at the wall the other day.

Clear Spring Miso Soup - Safeway (for the bananas) - Stella Artois - Regal King Size fags - large cheesy helmet.

In reply to Rye Gob: Indeed, The tooling ascents (well the ones with bolts in anyway) have more to do with sport climbing than scottish winter climbing. However, chalk and cheese they are NOT! the skills involved in the continental tooling discipline (and summer sport rock climbing for that matter) are the missing ingredient in most of the scottish winter climbers who want to push the limits.

It isnt a coincidence that I did the first ground up scottish X five days after returning from my tooling trip.

anyway, nice to see some british climbers opening their eyes and kicking arse..

dmac

In reply to Greg:
Do grades really matter that much?

Course they fecking do.

It's like asking if times really matter to professional sprinters...

Sheesh.

Never heard of him, but fair play, why not crow about it.

Tosser? Maybe - never met him, never likely to. I think the word would be better used to describe some of the knee-jerk specialists who frequent this forum.

As for ego trips - what about the sad cases trying to top the 'top 40' posters list. What kind of a personality defect does that require??? Only top 40 posters need reply... 6 seperate times should do it.

Making the list at all would be enough reason for me to start looking for another interest in life - maybe, err.. climbing!!!

Keep it up you mugs

Cheers

Piglet

In reply to Scott Muir:

i reckon all these awesome mixed climbers should hop on a plane to nz, and come and repeat some of the stuff out here by guys like cotter (no pun intended) and allen uren etc, where you dont have the safety of bolts, you cant just stroll to the crag, and you have to get in, get the route done, and get out before a tasman front comes in and kicks the living f*ck out of you, or before the whole massif collapses around your crampons. Lets see how far they get.
All these guys are obviously extremely strong, technically superb, mentally on it, but are they REALLY hardcore?
I wonder what whillans would say.

In reply to Scott Muir:

by the way my last post wasnt a slagging for muir and co. I personally think if i climbed that hard i would be bloody stoked and want to tell people, shouldnt we be pleased that brits are taming the hard stuff, and up there with the best of them? Maybe his wording was a bit egotistic though, especially the title.

In reply to bomb:

Euroreality;

http://www.climbing.com/news/amerontour/

In reply to Scott Muir: I'm glad you have done this. Now anyone that didn't already think you were a tosser will.

For me, you contradict the whole ethos of what British Climbing represents.

You are a media whore plain and simple.

The next time I see you in The Scottish Mountaineer spouting your shit, both myself and many of my friends are cancelling our subscriptions to the MCofS. We are not prepared to pay to read this sort of garbage.

p.s. If you are trying to be the next Stevie Haston, your too shite for that.

In reply to Scott Muir: Either a good troll or:
Jesus I'ld read enough times that lots of climbers are quite egotistical but you mr muir appear to be something else. Seems like you're so caught up in thinking that your climbing is something that's important to other people that you don't recognise the majority view towards this kind of childish boasting.
Surely this climbing lark is just an amazing way to escape from the daily norms of our societies, in other words souless commercialism, relentless competition for status, vanity and trying to impress the the right people in order to get by in life. Something ring a bell here? Climbing attracts because of it's very freedom from the bullshit of lots of life, commercial whores like you just bring that bullshit back into climbing.
Forcing your tired limbs up some dank little cave in some out of the way part of europe or climbing a big mountain via a dangerous part of it are simply not achievements which warrant wide adulation from an admiring public, and quite rightly so, nor should they ever be. Note I don't say what you and co are doing isn't hard etc, but come on, surely a simple report of routes ascended written up in your local climbing rag is more then enough recognition for what is basically a personal achievement and will never be anything more, even if the idiotic marketing guru's of some 'outdoors companies' would like to paint the picture of the mountains as some kind of user friendly adventure playground for when you need that fix of extremeness dude.
I'm sure you'ld find alot more of the respect you seem to need from your fellow climbers if you actually underplayed your achievements a bit rather then set yourself up for knockers (like me) to shoot you down.
By your rampant, unashamed trumpet blowing you're utterly selling yourself and the pasttime of climbing out in the very name of everything which I head into the mountains in order to get away from.
You took time to post your list of latest routes in all their sponsored glory on here so how about you coming back on here and trying to justify to everyone the kind of commercial shite which you seem to be pushing in an activity where it's not welcome.
Rant grrrrrr shite mummble bolox etc............

In reply to Anonymous: Didn't mean to be mr annon on that last on.

In reply to petejh: Absolutely spot on dude. Who gives a shit.

In reply to Scott Muir: i'm not sure; theses are just a few thoughts.........
# anyone who climbs really hard, has to have some ego and will watch the grades if they are at the top of their potential
# anyone who climbs hard must love climbing (reasons and motivations can be varied, but all add up to the same result)
# anyone who loves climbing knows that they need money to do it; if there are people out there to pay for you to climb all the time, you have to be part of the system
# anyone who loves climbing would not reject, actually would probably search a way to get funded to do it.
# expeditions to greenland, himalayas or wherever if done regularly, ie: top level stuff require funding.
# whats the major difference between high level mixed climbing and out and out alpinism, other than the style; both take time, dedication, training and money!!!
# and so on and so on.....

in my experience, climbing works for me, it overtakes my being and i always want to do more and try new things. each new thing is hard and fulfilling....so i don't think people should give other people too much shit for doing and being successful at other varieties of a common passion.

bye

In reply to Scott Muir: sorry, a bit more....last weekend we were doing alpinism, this week we will be doing steep ice, then a bit of dry tooling and then some aid attempts to hanging ice curtains when we are too knackered.(hopefully) it all fits in, each bit seems to up your general climbing ability and the variety is fun.

i do admit however that i am new to this game and maybe have not observed the changes that comercialization of climbing has done to the sport. If i was older and was used to the isolation and simplicity of it all, it would perhaps seem like a stupid change. but hey, the whole world seems to be going that way.

In reply to EVERYONE:

Somewhat interesting that someone can be so provokative and add absolutely no further comment to some of the issues raised (a lot of which a directed at the person in question). Scott if you are still alive-which i find unlikely due to two factors a) the fantastically difficult routes your climbing b) given half a chance most of the people on this forum would probably kill you- i cant wait to hear your next installment. Which i desperately hope will not be confined to trumpetting but maybe an intelligent analysis of some of the issues raised.

Come on scott dip your finger into the pot and have another little stir.....

In reply to Scott Muir: agreed the sponsorship references were going a bit to far, but dissapointing (if not expected) to see once again the achievements of a brit get shot down. There have been numerous posts on rocktalk refering to peoples wish lists of routes at the start of the year, and sometimes at the end of the year what they have actually done. So whats going on? It's ok for a rocktalk regular to talk about what they want to do, but as soon as someone comes on and says what they have done it's not?

And then there are those tedious threads discussing whether someone has done some route or not and what stile they did it in.. and then as usual someone complains that the person in question doesnt make a statement in person.. blah blah blah

Are those haston routes really clip ups? I thought they were pegged and still somewhat adventurous.?

In reply to bomb:
I reckon Whillans would say bunch of wankers everyone.