UKC

Hello,

I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but I'm lazy and hate reading about training so any quick fix suggestions much appreciated. 

I've never got round to doing any training, but suddenly have some motivation for doing something about it over the winter.

I'm a E3/E4 + occasional E5 climber (onsight about 7a in the UK, 7b on long euro routes and have third goed a couple of soft touch endurance 7c's). Not interested in bouldering. Heavy climber with decent endurance, but terrible on small holds or anything requiring body tension.

Given my lack of training before now, I'd think that even something not particularly scientific will probably still give me some results... But given my lack of motivation something structured might be needed!

Aiming to be peaking for April time. I'll probably have time to get to the wall 2x a week, finger board at home 2x week, climb on rock at dry weekends 

So far I've considered: 

1. Random free online training plan for mid grade climbers (any suggestions?)

2. Pay for an uphill athlete plan (anyone tried these?)

3. A lattice training plan (looks expensive but good, probably overkill?)

4. Look into some sort of in person coaching session (also over kill and expensive  but probably a good incentive to actually train). I'm Bristol based, any suggestions / ideas of realistic costs?

Thanks for any info.

What are you aiming for? It's hard to give you a recommendation without knowing your goals. 

It sounds as though motivation to train is the biggest problem so if spending a load of cash on a paid coach/plan gets you moving then that'd be good but you don't need one to tell you that regular finger board sessions will be of massive benefit as will the other low hanging training fruit!

What's your goal for April? trad, sport, long, short? Your biggest opportunity for improvement will probably be more doing more steep bouldering if that's what you avoid. What's your best effort bouldering-wise outdoors, on a steep 'basic' problem?

Pay for a coach. Get a training plan fitted to what ever time you can give to it. Importantly - pay for monthly / 2 monthly coaching 'catch ups'. The skin flint part of you won't want to look like a knob by turn up to tell the coach about the plan you paid for but haven't done, so you'll end up doing it. This accountability can't be under estimated! (So a good friend of mine tells me...)

Whatever you do, I’d suggest not getting a lattice lite plan. I had a couple last winter based on similar requirements to you, and they did absolutely f*ck all - if anything I got a little worse at everything. Might have just been a bad experience, but seems good to balance out the positive reviews that they (naturally) seem to share.

to be less shit, maybe climb E5 6b comfortably, redpoint 7c+ by May?

any idea what you're looking at price wise for something like that?

I think I've 'sent' a 7A about 8 years ago. Don't think I've bouldered outside much since. Happy to train indoors bouldering though if it will make a difference on a rope 

I have an uphill athlete plan to help me prepare for winter.  Its the Mixed/Ice plan and is good so far (3 weeks in).  Its heavily based around the TFTNA training protocols developed by Steve House and Scott Johnston.  Its very focussed on core, calves and ice-tool pulling strength/endurance.  If you sign up to training peaks and then buy the plan its very easy to get started.  I think the plans are compatible with the free TP account and the basic mixed/ice plan is $58 or so.

Like other posters have mentioned though, it's all about what you want.  UA plans tend towards alpinism so if you're keen to purely improve your rock climbing grade for single pitch routes then a Lattice plan might be in order.   Lattice fingerboard plan with a mini assessment is £85 (i got bought one as a present that I haven't started yet).

Make sure you sort out a setup/location for training where you enjoy doing it. Eg, make sure you have somewhere to sit while resting, have some way of playing music, reading a book, watching tele etc as per your preference. This helps keep the motivation but I have also found myself that when I really wanted to push my training volume up a few years ago a paid-for plan helped motivate me for a few months. The one I used was from the training beta website, it wasn't customised at all but it was ok and it worked for me in the way you want it to. It was fairly cheap.

It's possible to do it all yourself though and to be honest if you have really done nothing before (eg no regular fingerboarding) then I would probably suggest doing some reading and experimenting carefully yourself to start with. Most plans aimed at people with no training experience will be pitched at people well below your level so I think it's worth getting used to fingerboarding, understanding a bit about it and then getting a plan at a later date once you understand your current training strength a bit better.

Lattice plans look good if you don't know what aspects of your physiology actually need training. However I haven't done one. Their free Crimpd app is a good starting point for exercise ideas. 

There is also loads of good info about training on old ukc and ukb threads if you do some searching.

Not current sorry. When I first had a coaching session, and resulting training plan, it was £80 I think, but that was a few years ago, and was done with a mate so we split the cost. More recently I've done my own plan and then checked in with a coach every couple of months. That's £30 for an hour, but is mates rates. I think it could be twice that.

To be honest though, the sesaions I've had have changed my climbing massively, and total I've spent about the cost of two pairs of rock shoes. 

Ok, so if I were you, the outline of my training plan towards April would be: 2 indoor sessions per week midweek of bouldering (preferably on a basic woodie/moonboard or similar) with max hangs on a fingerboard and pull up variations, then do what you enjoy at weekends ie routes, winter, whatever.

Structure the fingerboarding and pull ups into 2x 8 week cycles, from October through to end of Jan, then start to get back on indoor routes in Feb, focussing on redpointing steep projects that take you at least a couple of sessions.

Gradually taper away the bouldering through Feb with 4x4s, and top up your route on-sighting fitness in March.

If you find yourself tempted back on to roped routes at the wall before Feb, then you know you're 'off plan' and probably not making any useful gains.

Any idea why it didn't work for you? Not enough/too much? Not specific enough? Just curious.

To be honest no idea. Little less hangboarding than I would have liked but my fingers were fine for my target grade (apparently) but ultimately didn’t really consider my lack of power and general shoulder strength. I had an assessment and highlighted this when I got the plan, but had very few exercises to boost either. Lots of the climbing sessions were geared towards doing a lot of sub-max efforts with loads of volume, rather than trying hard. They highlighted they were trying to improve my “training capacity” despite the fact I commonly do 2.5 hour sessions on the wall and 2.5 hour hang/conditioning sessions. 

Didn’t bother with another and have gone it alone since lockdown kicked in. Boulder grade hasn’t increased yet but I have consolidated at the top end over the latter end of the summer. Maybe I just needed to stick it out a bit longer but £200 and 24 weeks with no progress was not freaky what I was expecting.

That said - it seems to work very well for some.

Cool thanks - I guess as you know where you want to improve, and what a paid training plan looks like, you can invent your own (for free!) that's specific to you.

From that respect I probably did learn something from it (I.e what a commercial plan involves), yes. Come back to me in 6 months for a full comparison!

looks like using one of the wall visits to focus on climbing moves or sections of hard (8a) routes might be beneficial.

This worked for a guy I climbed with a few times in 2015/16:

• Foot on campus board training (50-100moves per rep)
• 20-30minutes endurance sets.

After a Winter of just doing that twice a week (and not limit bouldering which he did previous years and kept injuring himself) he fired Storm Warning (7c+) as his first f7c+ in a session in April on his first day climbing outside in the UK that year.

Gaz Parry has also over the years been a really keen proponent of the high-rep foot on campus board training.

Anyway, whatever you do, good luck. 

Find the problem.

Fix the problem.

You've said you're heavy, bad on small holds and have poor body tension. Great, you've got your starting point.

Now:

Eat less. Ride your bike. Go for some long runs. Drink coffee black. Suffer.

Get on the beast maker and do some reps. See the Beast maker app.

Steep roof bouldering repeats for your body tension. Do big holds but don't cut loose ever. Sets of 4. With a rest.

That'll do it.

It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Bring on the dislikes!

I'll give you one, but only because running isn't the best weight management - will tire you out and give you heavy legs. Better to just eat a bit less IMO.

Thanks Ian.

I just want to feel something. Anything.

At your service  

Im always just a little wary with running as an owner of an above-average sized pair of calves which weigh my down! Having tried to pair running at a decent level with climbing in the past, I can attest to the fact that climbing often goes out in the window in favour of a nap. 

Really interesting! How strong a boulderer was your mate anyhow?

Fwiw I find long easy endurance sets very beneficial for climbing, but if the OP is not strong and gets up enduro 7bs, endurance is probably his strong point.

Useful - thanks!

Punter training question - what are 4x4s?

Sure, 4 laps in quick succession, on either a boulder problem or a route. You can vary the exact rest period. Plenty of tips online.

Have to admit I had a similar experience,  the second test I did at the end did show a huge improvement in PE but my finger strength dropped off a cliff and I wasn't particularly strong for the grades I climbed. I didn't feel this was enough for 6 months dedicated training. 

In the end it averaged out and I carried on climbing similar grades although a different style, but it took a long time (lockdown) to get fingers back to original strength. What it did open my eyes to was all the conditioning, antagonist training required and lots of targeted exercises for "energy systems".  

It didn't improve my climbing on paper, but on balance it probably stopped me getting injured etc... and in the long run will improve my climbing so was probably worth it. I think I was just hoping it would be a the magic ingredient, and I would see a jump in grades, maybe 6 months was not enough?

Similar reflection to me there. The value I have extracted from it is that I didn't get injured and have learned how to train, so hopefully can put that to good use. I'd just have liked to see something more tangible for 6 months of effort on a "world-leading" training plan. Hard to tell with the time thing, I think for me I want to get something obviously beneficial for my cash so gave up on it. 

Much like you my fingers are also back to square 1 so here's to a winter of #madgainz 

Hi, just a bit of context wrt the post title. According to the UKC stats, a ‘mid grade climber’ operates around HS, rather than the E grades, so you’re doing ok and don’t beat yourself up about it.

What you need to do is try some of the stuff that’s being described and see what you actually enjoy doing otherwise you won’t keep it up. The other thing is that there won’t be a single solution, it’s usually a combination of training types. Also it helps to reflect and identify what your weaknesses are and concentrate on these in the first instance, while keeping up general training. Dave Mac’s ‘9 out of 10 climbers’ book is a great start. For me, it was finger strength and a left/right imbalance so Beastmaker sets and a symmetrical board made big improvements ( albeit from a really crappy low level!). Watching Battlestar Galactica from start to finish while on the fingerboard took me up a couple of Font grades. Bouldering outside your comfort zone also delivers results. When I started, my mates were climbing way harder than me, and their input was the best thing ever, as was some sessions with people like Ben Bransby.

Paul

Do a boulder problem four times with as little rest as possible - just drop off & start again immediately. Short rest, repeat 4 times in total.

This would be the equivalent of saying "my endurance sucks, but I'm not interested anything other than short boulder problems, how do I improve?"

I suggest more bouldering and use of tension board if available to you. Perhaps increase core training as this is key to keeping tension.

I'd only start paying for training once I'd exhausted all the obvious ways to improve.

I see you're Bristol based. Tom Bunn, works as a manager at Red Point, coached my son up until he moved to Bristol. It would be worth your time going to talk to him - I don't know if he's coaching now, but if he isn't he ought to be able to give you some recommendations to local coaches.

I don't think it is the equivalent of that at all!

In terms of recognising a problem and the solutions, but not being interested in the solutions, it's an exact equivalent!

I think you need to read what he wrote in his OP and other posts more carefully!

Useful info cheers all, checked out the crimped app which looks good. Was hoping someone could point me in the direction of schedule I could blindly follow for a few months  with minimal research effort.... Guess I might need to engage a bit more a buy dave Macs book. 

Not hard to build a basic schedule out of what you already know:

So switch at least one of your wall sessions to bouldering (preferably steep), and pick a Crimpd fingerboard session to do twice a week.

Maybe find a fall-back training activity for wet weekends when you can't climb outside, whether that's another wall session or a strength-training session of some kind. If you've got access to weights, posterior chain stuff like deadlifts or kettlebell swings might be good for body tension?

Then see how it goes -- if it's too much or not enough, if you love or loathe certain types of training -- and adjust accordingly.

Once you've got a routine, stick with it for 6-8 weeks then vary it up a bit (e.g. by switching the fingerboarding from max hangs to repeaters).

Yup. You are in the land of low-hanging fruit! You almost certainly don't need a super-scientific complex program in order to start seeing results from targeting the weaknesses you've identified.

I found Dave Macs book not to be particularly useful - what is much better is the rock climber's exercise guide by Eric Horst aka conditioning for climbers - its full of useful exercises and breaks the training down into strength, power endurance and endurance.