Appears Scarpa are releasing a new Boostic next year:
https://goodbouldering.com/?pid=152894677
Blurb says thinner sole from 4 to 3.5mm and wider last by 2mm.
I am very excited to see these, not least because the Boostic are my number one shoe as far as UK trad + sport is concerned.
Ordinarily we'd have got to see them at the summer trade show, but due to COVID that was cancelled. Apparently samples are arriving soon, so hopefully we'll have a pair in for review (and further comment) sooner rather than later.
On that note, I'm going to chase them up now...
Your not the only one, I've now determined the old yellow style Vapour Laces, Instinct VSs, Laces and VSRs are all too soft for UK trad (especially for the Lakes). I wanted to try the current style but no where stocks them so I'm very excited to try these out.
What is that website!!!
> Your not the only one, I've now determined the old yellow style Vapour Laces, Instinct VSs, Laces and VSRs are all too soft for UK trad (especially for the Lakes). I wanted to try the current style but no where stocks them so I'm very excited to try these out.
In light of this I'm moderately concerned with the shift from 4mm to 3.5mm rubber, as it suggests a move towards making them more sensitive. Whilst on the surface this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, it would if it had a negative effect on its legendary levels of support (which is ultimately what you bought it for).
The email has now been sent to Scarpa, so hopefully we'll hear back an ETA shortly.
Its a japanese website, some more digging has found the summer 21 work catalogue which also has some details, albeit in german...
https://issuu.com/scarpa_aut/docs/scarpa_fr_hjahr_sommer_21_austria
It contradicts itself by quoting both 4mm and 3.5mm for the sole, the plot thickens. No pun intended. They may of put a stiffer midsole in negating the need for a thicker sole and therefore increasing sensitivity without sacrificing stiffness.
really? a heavily downturned and velcro shoe is your go to shoe for Trad? i appreciate that you are a much better climber than most of us... but i cant think of anything worse!
That catalogue looks great, but for one thing. No Stix or similar performance slipper. The Instinct SR's, while good, are not a patch on the best slipper ever made.
Ah well, back to trawling the interweb for unicorns and Stix in my size.
Andy F
I love em, comfy and stiff and don't feel that downturned to me (not as much as Miura VS anyway), they smear ok once worn in, but it's certainly not their forte. Maybe I just have wired feet?
I hope the fit and stiffness remains the same, though if the heel was made similar to the chimera they'd be perfect. It does look like the slingahot rand has been altered a bit tbh.
Have you tried the Furia S? They are effectively a slipper. They’re amazing for where feel is key.
So did we decide you were going to review these Rob?
Your boss
I’ll review them, as I say I’ve tried every other Scarpa trad shoe!
> So did we decide you were going to review these Rob?
> Your boss
And I know my place - in the comfort/all-day/beginner range!
Scarpa have a lot of models don't they!? Interesting that in the mountain boots they are still making the excellent Zodiac Tech which they only brought to the UK for a season, but are superb light alpine crampon compatible boots. It would be interesting to know more about which boots and rock shoes they sell in the UK and why not the full range.
I've always assumed they make a batch for a year or so, then change to a new model, but obviously can keep selling existing stock. I can't think of anything they don't sell in the UK in rock shoes?
The original Boostic was only sold in the UK intermittently whilst they kept it on sale in Europe consistently for several years. Apparently this was because the Instinct VS outsold it in the UK by a considerable margin, and they then decided it wasn't worth promoting the Boostic here.
> really? a heavily downturned and velcro shoe is your go to shoe for Trad? i appreciate that you are a much better climber than most of us... but i cant think of anything worse!
I always find the term 'down turned' an interesting one, because when you look at the following picture what do you see (aside from a slightly squashed rock shoe): is it a shoe that is radically down turned, or is it actually pretty flat?
Add into the mix the Boostic's legendary levels of support, which is amazing on two accounts: the first is that you can actually size them quite generously/comfortably, as the shoe continues to give you support where other, softer shoes would just flop/roll around; the second is that as a result of this support, you can hang around on small edges without either your foot cramping up or your shoe rolling off. I can't think of many shoes that offer a similar level of support, which is ultimately what you're after for a lot of UK trad and sport.
Clearly a whole host of terms, conditions and caveats apply regarding whether or not they actually fit, the sort of grade you're climbing, and the rock type you're climbing on, but the Boostic is certainly an option I feel has been overlooked.
> Have you tried the Furia S? They are effectively a slipper. They’re amazing for where feel is key.
I never used the Styx, but from what I recall they had a lot more support than the Furia S. I'm a big fan of the Instinct SR, but as per Andy's comments are still a long way off the level that the Styx provided.
On the whole I feel like pretty much all the R&D is going into softer and softer shoes these days, which is great if you're bouldering (indoors and out), or if you're climbing on super steep continental limestone, but not if you're crimping your way up Malham Cove or climbing Right Wall on the Cromlech.
Fingers crossed the new Boostics turn the tide around.
> So did we decide you were going to review these Rob?
> Your boss
Oops...
#P45
agreed, they look allot less downturned in your photo than the original link photo. i guess it all depends on what shape 'foot' they are put on for the manufacturers promo pictures... stiff is definitely desired for trad, but i steer clear of velcro as i like jamming!
Tbf mine have been used extensively at millstone and and the velcro cloaure never seems to get damaged, the first strap is quite far back from the toes, unlike Miura VS which I've had to reinforce the velcro straps on the 4+ pairs I've owned.
The Furia S are much softer than the Stix. I've got a pair, and while excellent indoors and on very steep outdoors rock, they lack the edge and toe power for just over vertical to steep routes. The Stix have, for me, an unrivalled balance of toe power, precision, feel, edge and smearing.
Andy F
What's your size of stix
I have a brand new never worn pair in the cupboard, 42eu
Mountain boot co import all scarpa stock into the uk and distribute it so I guess they bet on the models that will be a bit more specific to this country especially in the walking boots area
Have you tried the Maestro Rob? I used to do a lot of trad in Boostics (and a resoled pair were actually my favourite for a while), but seem to be coming round to the last of the maestro. I feel they are just as supportive, but counterintuitively for a supposedly stiff flat(ish) trad shoe, I find them better on smears.
With the boostics I found that I climbed with "edge myopia" and overlooked smears in favour for micro edges.
I have, but - at least for me - they were no way near as supportive, which is something that was echoed during Theo's UKC review:
"after a couple of months of use, the midsoles of my Maestros have become very soft and this means that they provide little support when standing on your toes...my feet begin to ache on longer routes as my foot is effectively having to maintain tension rather than being supported by the sole of the shoe"
When it comes to smears, I think like all shoes the Boostic benefits from a bit of wearing in, but once worn in is fine to use on more tenuous terrain (at least in my experience).
That said, everyone is different...
What size do you need? I've got a pair of Stix in a 41.5 I could be swayed to part with...
I read an American review recently that said much the same about the Maestro - surprisingly not very supportive. They were comparing them to TC Pros.
> I read an American review recently that said much the same about the Maestro - surprisingly not very supportive. They were comparing them to TC Pros.
I'm glad it wasn't just us.
That said, compared to the TC Pros even the Boostics look pretty soft (and that really is saying something!!).
I've not had a pair long enough to rate their longevity of stiffness. Wouldn't actually mind them softening up a bit. Never had any issues with them on routes up to 400m in Chile, but they were pretty new.
I've got TC Pros and way prefer the maestros for sensitivity. But you can't beat TCS for big days! Still have no idea how the top wads climb such hard routes in them though - blind faith!
As long as they don't flop out like the old whites!
Given my posting record I suspect there may be some that think I'm somewhat singleminded about the matter of support, but I'm with you regarding the TC Pro - it's too stiff! I've only used them the once, back when my bag got lost whilst we were en route to Tasmania, hence I had to climb with a pair I'd borrowed from a friend. It's always a bit disorienting climbing with someone else's rock boots, but it was even stranger not getting any feedback between the boot and the rock - it just felt like a plank of wood!
Thanks for the offers, but the wrong sizes. I've got a couple of pairs ready to resole, hopefully they'll last until Scarpa see sense and bring out the Stix V3...
Andy F
Have you got the Mids or the Ecos Ally?
I got the Ecos and have also found them too soft (im a fat f*cker mind). Was literally cursing them while trying to de-pump on small feet on a hard (for me) trad lead at the weekend. But, I've heard the Mids are a bit stiffer? Just ordered myself some katana laces instead.
Infact could we see a UKC round up review of stiff flat(ish) shoes good for UK trad?
Hi Rob
Do you know what Scarpa changed from the original Boosters and Stix shoes as the modern incarnations don't seem to fit my feet anymore?
Eco's G. I'm usually a sufferer of calf pump. Biggest thing for me that changed that was watching some guy called Mike inside and outside edging his way up the route left of right wall. I basically "front pointed" every hold! Learning to use my edges really helped my wall edging stamina.
But, so far, even on big 58m pitches at Fairhead I found them great. Note - I have the sized the same as my sport shoes, but I reckon the last is designed to allow you to keep your consistent scarpa size and get an all day for, rather than sizing up.
> Have you got the Mids or the Ecos Ally?
> I got the Ecos and have also found them too soft (im a fat f*cker mind). Was literally cursing them while trying to de-pump on small feet on a hard (for me) trad lead at the weekend. But, I've heard the Mids are a bit stiffer? Just ordered myself some katana laces instead.
Robbie Philips has said this in passing in one of his videos and I queried him directly about it and he confirmed. I have both and the mid does seem a bit stiffer (and has a flatter toe box which I find nicer).
Yeah to be fair I sized them half a euro size up from a single pitch fit and had to slice the heel rand as the heel really hurt the bone spurs at the base of my Achilles. It's a shame as scarpas fit my toes way better than any other brand
Next time just take the knife to your bone spurs
Hi All,
I thought I'd ressurect this thread, because look what just arrived through the front door - a pair of BRAND NEW BOOSTICS!!!
Clearly the big caveat to be coupled alongside the excitement is the fact that they've arrived during not only a time of lockdown, but also - as a I look outside my window - alongside a remarkable amount of rain falling from the sky. As such, the excitement is tempered somewhat, but stay strong - spring is just around the corner...
In light of this what I'm about to say is very much an initial impression, and not one that's founded from use because of a lack of dry rock of climbing walls to try them out on!
Size-wise I think there's around half a European size difference between the old and the new. I'm a 41.5 in the old, which fits comfortably and performs well out the box. I had to do a bit of guesswork with the new, so went with 41.5, but it's definitely a lot tighter, which will be fine once worn in - or on climbs where I really need precision - but I think a 42 would have more in common with the old sizing.
The fit has changed a little, with excess volume having been removed from in/around the top of the foot (where, arguably, there was too much before anyway). The heel is narrower, but also a lot better than the previous model, so I'm excited to see whether I can take advantage of that during the upcoming sport + trad season.
When it comes to stiffness, they do feel a little softer, but not a lot. This is something I was prepared for, and was quite cynical about, but due to other structural changes might not make as much of a difference as I'd first thought. For instance, there's actually more give/movement in the toe-box of the older model, whereas on the new model it feels much more supportive.
As such, it's a case of watch this space. They'll be in shops a little later in the year and I'll do my best to write up a review as and when I can actually get back out on rock enough to formulate a thorough opinion.
In the meanwhile, here's some pics...
Thanks for the update Rob they look great! Can't wait to get my hands on a pair. How does the size compared to other Scarpa shoes, for example Instincts?
> Thanks for the update Rob they look great! Can't wait to get my hands on a pair. How does the size compared to other Scarpa shoes, for example Instincts?
I got a pair as well since we are doing a joint review of these. Same thoughts as Rob - a little tighter than expected. I have been consistently 42 through 2 pairs of Boostics, 3 pairs of Visions before that and some Vapour Vs. Last year it went a bit wonky on the Veloce which I needed to go down to a 41 to get a fit in what is a very soft shoe. This seems to have gone the other way a bit with these new Boostics although I suspect a 42.5 would be a little baggy for me. Remains to be seen since Boostics have always been a painful baptism so they could be perfect.
Alan
I'm a 40.5 in the Instinct VSR and I'd say they're quite similar to the 41.5 I've got in the new Boostic. That said, it's a little hard to compare something that's worn in vs. something that's fresh out the box, but that'll give you a rough idea.
In terms of fit the two have quite a lot in common, with a similar volume, although the forefoot could be a fraction wider on the Boostic (but not by much). I'd certainly say that if you found the Instinct to fit and are looking for something more supportive then my initial impression from the new Boostic is that it should be a fairly natural transition.
On the whole I'd say the fit on the new Boostic feels a lot more refined than on its predecessor, although all this is a moot point as I'll refrain from any further judgement until I get out on rock and put them to use.
> Boostics have always been a painful baptism so they could be perfect.
Interesting. Due to their support I could literally wear them out the box on either sport or trad without even the vaguest concern of any pain - they were absolutely perfect. That said, this also illustrates that we're all different when it comes to feet and footwear!
This is good news, albeit only initial impressions! I've been scouring the internet the last couple of years trying to pick up pairs of Boostics. As someone else mentioned I also find them super painful straight out of the box but they break in reasonably quickly, thankfully!
Is that a full length sole I spy? They look like a stiff shoe I might actually get on with as I don't like the instinct VS. I've not found a stiff shoe that fits since Scarpa stopped doing the excellent Spectro.
Andy F
They look more asymmetric than the old ones I think. Or maybe it's just that i haven't looked an mine in weeks now 😢
You'll be glad to hear that side-by-side they look exactly the same in terms of symmetry.
The only reason I know what rock boots look like isn't because I go climbing anymore, it's just because of the amount of them sitting on the side of my desk, waiting to be used/abused/reviewed as and when we're all allowed back out again.
In the meanwhile my skin is getting alarmingly soft, so it's going to be a baptism of fire upon my return to the rough stuff!!