UKC

My wife always makes a huge song and dance if there are cows in a field, so much so she probably attracts their attention, so I was fascinated to read in Trangias thread https://www.ramblers.org.uk/news/latest-news/2020/october/proposals-to-dive...

 Statistics from the Health and Safety Executive(HSE) show that over the past four years there have been fewer than ten fatalities and 65 injuries caused by cattle to the public. This is against a backdrop of estimates from Natural England that there are 1.4bn visits to the countryside each year.

Ieaving aside that 1.4bn visits will not have been walks through fields with cows, there will have been many millions, 10s of millions, so it seems the risk of attack is very low.
 

However what does fewer than 10 mean, 9? or so few its irrelevant statistically, if its 9 it means that I you do get in serious ruck with a cow, there is 1 in 7 chance you will get killed.

I carry a stick and keep calm and well away, how do you deal with it.

That will be an ecumenical matter and require some perspective. 

I think some of the incidents which are recorded as attacks are ones where the cows are not so much hostile as curious: all the same if they are bearing down on you at a gallop it's still a serious situation to be in.

Going through the same fields with the same herds, I had a lot more incidents when I used to run my circuit than I do now when reduced to a walk. I do carry a stick,though,  and avoid these fields if I'm walking my mate's dog.

I rely on being a considerably faster sprinter than da wife. 

It is really annoying when a farmer puts cattle in a field that has a path I want to walk on. So inconsiderate!

Walk across the field and hope it is OK.

There's two fields - one in the Pentlands and one on the West Highland Way near Milngavie where I've had dodgy experiences with cows but in both cases there's no reasonable alternative route.  Seems to me that its about the type of cattle as much as whether there are cattle, there are other fields with cattle on the same routes where there's no problem at all.

On really popular routes, I think there's an argument for fences and I don't think it should be totally up to the farmer how it is done e.g. on the John Muir trail there's a section where you end up walking an extra kilometre around the edge of a huge field.

Cows and horses are like my only fear and I'm terrified of them! I think it's because I've not spent much time around animals. I've been known to add 50% onto the length of a run to avoid a field with cows, especially if they're all congregated around the gate you need to get through.

I have a friend who's family have a farm and he walked through, directly through, a herd of cows to open a gate, on the other side of which was another herd of cows and he closed the gate behind him and they all just moved out the way. (meanwhile I had jumped the dry stone wall and was walking on the other side incredulous.)

If I absolutely have to walk through a field of cows I just go slowly and keep my eye on them and try to know where the nearest tree is I could climb or wall I could jump!

Do you mean the John Muir way?

This is little clip has useful advice from a farmer on walking through a field of cows 

https://twitter.com/headysfarm/status/1060983113734672384?lang=en

A game my mates and I played for hours on end in our mis-spent country youth outruning the cows. Payed to not be the slow fat kid at the back!

Never had a problem with livestock and the rules I have always followed in adulthood...

Never run away, or look like you might.

Dont turn your back on them until you have a considerable distance between you and them.

Their rear end is the dangerous one as it's the bit that can kick you. Keep clear.

Dont ever get between calfs and the rest of the herd.

If they do advance menacingly then walk straight at them, being big and noisy if needed. They will stop and turn.

Has worked so far!

Get that wrong every time.

My usual cycle circuit involves a single track road (highbridge/brackletter, near Fort William) where there are frequently cows and occasionally a bull.  The cows seem to be just about ok, but I have been charged by a very angry bull a few times this year.  The bull is allowed to roam wild and has tormented some friends who also cycle that way and even a couple who live by the road.  I have had to turn back on these occasions.  Pretty scary. 

Not sure why but this seems to be a modern phenomenon.  I grew up 200yds from farmers fields 30+ yrs ago which were regularly full of cows.  We used to play in those fields daily, often spending entire days there.  We got up to misschief but i cant remember ever being warned by anyone to stay away or be careful.  TBH it was the farmers dog you had to worry about, nippy little bastard.  Well that and slipping on a cow pat.  Am i the only one who used to enjoy making frisbies out of dry cowpats?

In later years i got into MTB and have lost count of the amount of fields i have passed with livestock.  99% of time all fine.  The odd little interaction with a cow but never anything dangerous.  The worst moments was the cows who stood their ground on a track i was riding along.  More often than not i would just go around.

Now the one thing i have never done intentionally is take a dog into a field with a herd of cows.  

I just think everything these days everything either needs legislated for or people protected from.  Really, a little common sense, bit of care and relaxed environment and it should be ok for the vast majority.  Cows havent changed so i guess its people and their actions.

It's good advice, (but doesn't work with a dog), and is dependent on the herd. We have some evil cows locally, and they will charge (and not in a playful way) at anyone entering the field.

I'm all for fenced off footpaths across fields with stock.

Blue alkathene water pipe is the farmers weapon of choice rather than a stick.

A farmer friend gave me the following advice: When you go into a field of livestock, pick up a stick; never get between a cow and its calf

Never had a problem myself but my wife saw a man get horribly trampled by cows on a fell race 10 yrs ago. 

Yep.

Years ago a stalker told me that sometimes he couldn't get downwind of a herd of deer without being seen. In those cases he'd walk past them at a distance while taking no notice of them. If they don't think you're interested in them then they don't take much interest in you.

When I'm passing some potentially aggressive cows/bullocks I do the same, keep my distance and take no notice. Generally they take no notice of me, seems to work.

Certainly not, I still throw sheep shit at my family, forgot about Cow Pats, I shall add to my repertoire.

A friend of mine asked me when I am going to grow, I said never I hope.

Farming practices have changed, historically cows were well habituated to humans, being looked after by hand and visited regularly by farmers and farm-hands. Stroked and petted by the farmers kids while calves. Farmers deliberately used to choose docile stock, where possible, as they like you didn't want to be kicked or trampled.  Problem animals would potentially be separated, and a lot of thought given about what to do for them, or do with them.  Locals would be regularly walking through the fields to get from A to B.

Now many diary herds can have very little contact with a bipedal walking human (depending on the farmerand farm set-up), fed by tractor, walk themselves into the milking parlour, robots attach the cups, dispense the food supplements and drugs while they are milked, cows let themselves out.  With a beef herd it might be even less, just the tractor, and the farmer doing his daily required welfare check, possibly from the comfort of the 4x4. Many cattle away from regular walkers routes, or just brought in, will have virtually no experience of humans on foot bar occasionally the farm staff visiting. This is well known by vets, whom will always tell the farmer...to 'get the cow in' before they come (but also remember an ill cow may be distressed).

Still its very rare for cattle to wish humans harm, but they are naturally very inquisitive, possibly more so due to modern farming practices (outlined above).

Always watch what they are doing if you can before, entering the field. If they are docile and settled before you enter its unlikely anything will happen.  Walking through quietly, and if they gather round just carrying on walking. Any charge is normally a feint and stop short.

Warning signs are normally there; If a female cow is braying it probably means she's misplaced her calf, or at least distressed in some way, if the herd is agitated before you are seen by them something might have spooked them, if the calf's are away from their mums at another part of the field, if the calves are very young etc, if member of the herd is lame.  Also in a dairy situation if a single cow is in a field on its own, it probably means its ill and also possibly on drugs, and is being isolated from the herd and excluded from general milking  to stop the whole batch getting contaminated  (in which case the milk goes down the drain, or at least used to; I don't know what the modern reg's are).  Cattle are herd animals and get very anxious when on their own. Hence the reason some bulls can't be put in a field with a FP on their own, but can be put in a field with a FP when they are with cows.

In England for the normally more agitated and testosterone fuelled bulls from a variety of breeds there are laws and regulations farmers have to follow to protect the public in relation to in what situations they can or can't be put in a field with a PF, see Trangia's HSE link in the previous thread. 

Thanks for that.  Makes a lot of sense.  

Be careful.  There was always a fine line between a crusty top and soggy bottom.  They didnt fly so well.

Indeed - noticed it myself.

Mind you over the years I had more trouble from ewes attacking dogs than cattle. And this summer had a run in with a billy goat.

Once up a time I would have started a cow pun digression.  Thankfully I've mooved on .

Most of the deaths will be farm workers or dog walkers I expect.

My usual encounter when riding gravel bike is with Highland Cows which I think are pretty docile - but they just stand there in the middle of the track eyeballing you with those massive stomach ripping horns. I crack first which usually involves muddy detour or bike lift over a fence.

well there have been 2 deaths in the last couple of months or so, a headmaster in Yorkshire and a man in Northumberland.  I was brought up not to worry too much about cattle but experience has taught me to pick up a big stick or some large stones in case of a footpath being made hazardous because of cattle.  I have had some experiences where I've had to be extremely aggressive to them (never to a bull though, but bullocks yes).  The number of reports in Cumbria alone over the last 30 years has made me a lot more wary.

Whilst working on a farm in Tasmania we went on a little Ute tour during our last week and stopped to look at the view from a field which had a couple of bulls in it.  The bulls were fine but I did notice the chap we were with unobtrusively bend down to pick up a stone when we first went into the field.  Always stuck with me.

Oh - cows can smell fear!

I always steer clear if possible, if not then move slowly and don't make sudden movements, cows are big and easily spooked.

It seems to depend on the herd but they definitely use the safety in numbers tactic. If one cow feels confident and standoffish then all the others will be as well. Likewise, if one is spooked they'll run off together.

Only once have I had serious trouble when another walker has a dog off the lead in the same field. The cows ran towards us, I don't remember how we got over the high stone wall so quickly but we landed on the other side with a massive adrenaline rush.

That's odd, they normally chase the dog, hence the advice to be ready to let the dog go if they turn aggressive.

My old dog was brilliant. He'd head off to the far side of the field (with cows following), we'd get to the other side, call him and he'd just jink out of the way and power back to safety, leaving the cows far behind.

Unfortunately the current rescue dog is a bit thick, built like a tank, (greyhound  / "american staffordshire" / great dane cross), and would probably think "Giant rabbits! Bring it on!!"

I've never been particularly worried by cattle. I generally find that unless they are unsettled before you walk in to their field, they will completely ignore you if you just walk through calmly and quietly. The presence of calves makes me a little more wary, although I generally find it's ok as long as you don't get between a calf and its mother. The presence of a bull, however, will make me think twice.

Probably the weirdest experience I had was cragging on seacliffs just outside Aberdeen. Some young bullocks followed us to the descent. They were just curious, but bullocks can be quite initimidating. We scrambled down to the base thinking they would disperse when they couldn't see us any more. When my partner topped out a short while later, they were there waiting. She was trying to belay me up and remain calm while they rooted through her pack and chewed on the dead end of the rope. We decided to call it a day at that point. We must have looked quite funny trying to walk nonchalantly back to the car with the bullocks following us!

I've had a n on going job involving a septic tank in a field full of Highland beasties......only trouble is getting out of the field if you've not given the "queen" of the herd a good scratch 

Bit unnerving to start with as she likes you to stand in front of her --- between massive horns and scratch her forehead. Now stands patiently waiting by gate for me to finish

But again - this is a small herd of show cattle, so use to people being around

Had some good fires with the previous Summer’s droppings in high, dry and very cold places over the years. When dry it’s good fuel.

Another pastime of a mispent country youth....cow pat golf.

Borrow your mates dad's clubs and ball and find a particularly "fresh " course. Tee off together, first to hit a green one wins the "hole" but has to tee off....from it! Hours of smelly fun.

My poor mum had to deal with some real washing challenges when I was young...

Meaningless stats in terms of illustrating the risk. Whilst getting killed by cattle might be very rare indeed, I'd say that being 'troubled' by them is extremely common. 

The approaches to many of the Yorkshire limestone crags involves crossing fields with cattle  - but there are almost always detours that can be taken to avoid the problem. A bit of pragmatism and common sense goes a long way.

It's annoying, and frightening though when you're caught out  - returning to St Bees one time along the cliff top path, with a dog (on lead) we were effectively trapped behind the fence at the top of the cliff for hours, till the bastards got bored and pissed off!

Actually, cows have changed, in breeds, in cross-breeding, and in the human interaction they get.

Nevertheless, my approach is illustrated by the Heady's farm video above.

Talk softly to them as you approach, to let them know you're coming, so they're not startled. I've not yet needed to carry a big stick...

Don't come between a mother and young.

Well they famously kill more people than sharks.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzv3kz/cows-and-horses-are-australias-numbe...

“Australia is the land of deadly animals. We’ve got the highest population of venomous snakes in the world, a toxic jellyfish that makes you trip so hard you want to die, spiders, sharks, crocs, octopus, jellyfish, and mosquitoes. But these aren’t the creatures you really need to be looking out for. The realkillers—the ones most likely to kick you off of this mortal coil—have been living right under our noses this whole time.”

A few years ago, when descending in the French alps, the path led through a cow field with the cows well spread out all over the path. The cows were young and had developing horns. Our French friend knew a farmer and the day before we had been discussing how he always said to be confident and just walk through. We had just started walking through them when a different colour cow came down the hill and started fighting with another cow. They all kicked off, bucking and fighting/playing around us. We backed away but one cow followed us, staring and not breaking eye contact. He was probably just curious or playful but tbh I didn't fancy playing with a massive cow. We backed behind a very small boulder (would have provided no protection) and suddenly made ourselves big with our trekking poles, this seemed to surprise the cow and he looked less sure of following us. We backed off and considered ourself lucky!

Walking down through alpine meadows I heard numerous braying of very distressed cows below, approached with caution, to find while crossing a bridge a plank had broken and a cow had a rear leg through the hole, dangling, and consequently trapped unable to get up or move on.

A local found the farmer; it was a job for Air Zermat, the cow was stropped and long line lifted off the bridge by helicopter.....what was that........................... 'a flying cow' obviously!

I would not have wanted to be the farm-hand that got the job of taking the strop off.

I doubt the cows have changed, more like we hear about it more now. 24 hour instant news. 

In years past it would be local news, today it can be global in seconds. 

I drive through a few cow fields to access waste water sites. Cows are very curious especially if they think food might be in the offing. They almost always come to my van, sometimes at a run and once I had them shadow me through the field doing a cross between a run and a skip. Never seen anything like it. 

Those are quite special. Remember one time years back heading through a field at night and seeing these massive shapes with huge horns loom out of the darkness. Tad unnerving.

There are some used off and on for a wildlife reserve near me. Never seen them get upset even when someone took a yappy dog through the field. Said muppet was about 20m in front of me when they went into the field. I decided to stay the right side of the gate until they were well clear although in the end wasnt necessarily.

I've been chased by groups of cows a couple of times* and it was freaking scary. When there are 10+ of them galloping towards you and you realise they're not going to stop, then carrying a stick or not running or turning your back on them doesn't really cut it. In each case I was carrying a backpacking load but I still managed to leg it and get an obstacle between myself and them. Never again.

* Once crossing a field on a RoW near Broughton Mills, the other time (a few years later) on open ground below Caw Fell. No calves that I remember.

Have been amongst cattle all my life and, fortunately, have never been troubled by an aggressive herd - probably the result of knowing what to avoid. A cow with calf is a completely different matter. I have seen a normally docile and friendly cow with calf go completely berserk at the sight of any person, including the farmer. Avoid at all costs.

The only time I have been chased by anything other than dogs was after a climb on Craig Dyniewyd. Descending through the fields to Nantmor, my partner and I were stalked and then chased by a herd of large hunter-type horses - we just managed to get over a wall. She knows her horses and she said they had a very malicious look about them.

i was once building a wall at Chatsworth in a field high up on the estate. I parked my old Octavia as close as I could get to the job, about 400 yards away.

After an hour or so the farmer drove up and we chatted for a bit. Finally he said "You might want to move your car back through that gate and back into the woods because we're letting the cows into the field this afternoon".

I asked him if they would damage it and he said, "No, they won't actually damage it but they are very curious creatures"

So I left it and true to the farmer's word on entering the field the cows made a beeline for my car. I watched a bit and decided they were just curious as he had said and after a bit they drifted off.

When I got back to the car at home time it was coated in a glutinous half dried film of cow slaver, especially the windows. That old car didn't get cared for much but it got a damn good wash that evening.

I sing to them, started when I was doing breeding bird surveys walking transects which invariably led through the middle of fields full of cows and calves. Seems to do the trick and they're remarkably forgiving of my terrible voice and worse compositions. 

I've had my backpack nibbled while being followed, I think they can interpret it as a sack of feed

The latest widely reported incident (there are many more) involved a woman walking through National Trust open access land  probably on a right of way and I think you would  have a reasonable expectation not to be attacked by livestock in such a place? 

The HSE asks farmers to go through an extensive checklist of when stocking fields which have public access https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais17ew.pdf. but this probably gets neglected. 

Don’t joke about horses.  Had a similar experience up Mosedale/mungrisdale area.  Taking a rest on a bike ride.  Sat down and a gang of ponies crept upon me.  They kept nipping me without getting too nasty.  I kept calm until they started doing it to my bike tyres too.  Jumped up flinging my arms about to scare them off

Don't ever walk into a group of ponies lying down, it means they haven't seen you yet...

That's because they can believe there is someone on a 90s mountain bike with drop bar handles. Cows are not impressed by recent trends in bike evolution.

Most cows come fitted with bar ends as standard, they're quite into the 90's MTB scene. 

I may try this, I sing when climbing sometimes,

"Im not scared,
Im not scared, 
I enjoy this,
Im not scared"

perturbes my partners when they hear it the first time, but works for me

Personally they never used to bother me, we used to march/tab through the middle of a herd if they were in our way during my time in the reserves. Never had any issues.

These days though, I don't mind admitting, I am absolutely petrified. I've been chased down several times (once with the hound silly, I admit!). Luckily, there has been a boundary of some sort on each occasion where I've thrown myself over out of harms way.

The issue for us folk who are trampling around fells,  there isn't always that saviour of a fence or wall to retreat to in a hurry. A few times I've been on a sheep path and crested a hill, only to then notice the herd.  What's one to do then if they become aggressive?

Anyway, regarding statistics, the following link reviews the official statistics and is written by and for people who are the victims of such attacks campaigning for safer practices. Its certainly makes one question the true danger posed by these beasts:  

https://killercows.co.uk/facts-stats/cattle-attack-statistics-an-alternativ... 

Kick your companion in the knee to make sure you can outrun them.

I wonder how many of the bull related deaths can be linked to the Tory government changing the law and allowing farmers to put bulls into fields crossed by public rights of way - that was iirc in the 1980s.  It rang alarm bells then as at that time I had no particular worry about cows but bulls were already in the public eye as a danger when crossing farmland.

No worries about cattle from here.  They are big and fast, but they are also not brave at all and pretty daft.  I've have been run at by several herds over the years.  Usually Bullocks.  I just turn toward them and take a step forward at the right moment.  They have always stopped in their tracks. As for bulls, I would not knowingly enter an area where there was a Bull.  That said I have been stood ft from one in the middle of a herd of cows, in thick fog on Bodmin moor and there was no issue.  I just moved away once I noticed him.

Horses, (not Ponies), on the other hand I am very weary of.  They really can close you down quickly and unlike cows they are often taller than my 6ft 4ins frame. Which I guess affects the phycology on both sides.  Again I've never had any trouble with them, but I have had groups at very close quarters a few times and found that a bit unnerving.

I'll take horses over cows, but I've owned horses for a long time so unlike cows, I'm confident around them and can read them pretty well. That means you know when it's appropriate sh1t yourself.

Definitely would have preferred horses when a herd of cows moved into a wild camp site on Ardnamurchan. One cow tried to use my mate's tent as a scratching post while my mate happened to be inside it, and all he could do was lie very, very still. Startling the cow at that moment would have been a poor life choice.

Part of Mugdock Park, near Milngavie, has a couple paths that go through livestock herds. I've been avoiding that bit when riding in the park because my horse gets freaked out by cows. You can just about manage her when there's a fence between you and them, but I wouldn't fancy my chances without the fence.

There's a long ride that links the park to the West Highland Way in a big loop, but you have to be willing to ride through a herd of Highland cows. Hard pass for me.

The path from Flotterstone to Turnhouse? Some vicious attacks there this year - the path is in a narrow section of field inexplicably popular with the beasts and has a very high use with people heading up into the hills. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54616178

I'm much less sanguine about fields with cows in now.

Yes, that one.  

The other one I mentioned is a large field near Milngavie on the West Highland way - possibly the one Emily-pipes was referring to.   I had to cross that one the other year and there was a bullock chasing some of the other ones about.   It was obviously a risk but it was getting late and no obvious alternative route.  So I crossed anyway and sure enough it had a run at me.  Fortunately it was only playing and stopped a few meters away.

The difference is the horses are not at all scared of people, as they are pretty much domestic animals.  That means they come right up to you hoping for a treat.  Having three or four horses you don't know cm away is what I sometimes find unnerving.  I have occasionally had individual "wild/moorland" ponies come up that close, but never a group. They breed/train a lot of horses around the area where I live and it common for them to be out in the local fields.  One place even has Shires which are gorgeous. Cattle though stay away unless they don't know you are there.  By stay away I mean a few meters, not a huge distance, but that's enough for me to be at ease.

I take a stick, don't keep eye contact (many animals are supposed to dislike starers), and especially if I imagine there is a risk and the path gets little human footfall I occasionally trespass into a neighbouring field to avoid cattle (although climbing fences is usually impossible for my wife).

My wife and I had  one incident where we just managed to get out of a gate after being pursued by bullocks (reason unknown) and this has seriously affected our walks: sometimes she refuses to go on and we have to retrace our journey.

I try and avoid wearing bright colours (though I don't know if the "red rag to a bull" thing is true. I'd also be interested to know if fields with alpacas pose any threat as they are are now quite common.

Udderly deplorable behaviour

According to a couple of vets I know alpacas are pretty unpleasant to handle. From the ones near me though they just go for a really, really creepy stare. The entire pack/herd/freak show turn their heads in unison to follow your path across the field (the discussion with the vets came about after I mentioned how creepy it was).

having heard that most cattle injuries/deaths come from crushing I have always turned and faced them - staring, stamping and making sudden stamping moves forward with accompanying noise.  So far they have always retreated.   I don't like the idea of being crushed against a fence so I try to check the availability of easy exit