UKC

I'm looking for some new crampons for steep water ice.  I like the look / reviews of Petzl Dart Leverlock - anyone have any personal experience?

In reply to George Ormerod:

George. I've been using Petzl Darts with the mono point option for several years on Scottish winter - ice and mixed - up to grade VI [bragging]. I like them. They are light, fit well and feel very positive on both water ice and mixed. 

Mine are maybe seven+ years old and as such Petzl don't make antiballing plates for my old model.

This is a slight disadvantage but some clever fella has found a way to adapt  a differing Petzl antiballing plate to fit so that problem is now overcome. The new models do have the antiballing plate option.

In reply to John Workman:

Thanks for that John.  If I'd climbed VI I'd take any opportunity to brag!

In reply to George Ormerod:

Personally I prefer duel points for water ice. More versatile when the features start getting funky. My G22s have been great for ice. Imagine the newer Plus model is just as good. It probably partly depends on what crampon best fits your boot. Also whether you plan to use the crampons for mixed as well. Ie to what extent you want an all round pair of crampons. 

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Thanks Lee, the Dart can be set up for any point combination.  Pretty much everyone here uses dual points on water ice for the added stability.  Mixed climbing is the work of the devil, so I will only be using these on ice - but I like the idea of the staggered front points; maybe the best of mono - dual point setups?  Anyone tried this?

In reply to George Ormerod:

I've been using petzl dart monos for about 10 years and are excellent for steep water ice. Grivel G20s are marginally lighter and even better on water ice, but more expensive and I find the useful life of them to be shorter than darts. That maybe down to how sharp I want the frontpoints before I get on ice but I think the metal is also softer. I would suggest either would be a good choice.

Andy

In reply to George Ormerod:

I owned rambo IV's with staggered front points and I found I preferred G14 on pure water ice, I had 3 sets of crampons at the time including also BD Sabretooth with a front basket (which I preferred on easier routes or soft snow days). If you could only afford one set of crampons staggered front points are quite a good compromise. On hard water ice its not unusual that the staggered point isn't doing much. As a side point the lower secondary points on the rambos are further forward than many crampons which does add some stability on steeper ice routes.

In reply to George Ormerod: You'd be able to pick/choose between mono, twin or staggered if you got a pair of Lynx

## But you can for dart/dartwin also so probably ignore Lynx

In reply to CurlyStevo:

You forgot to mention that Rambos are a heavy crampon, which is ok if you want foot swing momentum, but less enjoyable if you dont like carrying extra / unnecessary weight on each foot (300g per crampon heavier than G20s for example) and want to be precise with your footwork.

Andy

In reply to andyinglis:

Yeah they probably are too heavy now a days, was just replying about the staggered front points on them tbh.

In reply to George Ormerod:

Darts are great. They certainly won't be the limiting factor in your climbing. Assuming they fit your boots then go for it! The new modular Darts will give you the option for duel points too.

In reply to andyinglis:

The new G20 Plus (and other G2x Plus models) adds to option of replacable front points (like the new Dart).

So a bit more longlivery on them as with the old fixed models (G2x, or Dart/Dartwin).

Naturally it depends on the ice you climb. Where I mostly climb, the ice tends to be featured and not all that thick. So a monopoint works like a champ (you place it like a rock shoe or crampon on mixed). If you have more ice available and casually just stomp it in, then dual points give a more stable platform.

The media I climb mostly also means that I do like really aggressive secondary points (for stability), like the ones on Grivels Rambo 4s or Racing fruitboot crampons. IMHO Petzl Lynx, Grive G14 and also BD Cyborg don't have aggressive enough points for my liking. And I would have preferred longer front penetration on the original Darts as well (started to get reasonable when the fixed front point was getting worn down... unfortunately then also the secondary points started get shorter). Currently mostly use BD Stingers, but even they don't work out as well as my Grivel Racing -bolt ons.

That being still said, I have  a pair of really well worn G14s that I occationally use for drytooling (will get binned soon), a tad better old Darts (that I still use for drytooling and mixed) and fresh fronts of Dartwins... That I might take out on a spin if I ever get to travel somewhere with a lot of ice... But as said my daily driver is Stinger and sometimes I might take out the fruit boots as well.

In reply to George Ormerod:

I found the Darts excellent for climbing ice, but, if you have big feet, not so good for wandering around on icy steep ground. They have fewer down points than many crampons. After taking an alarming fall on icy ground under savage slit one November day I replaced mine with Lynx. Nearly as good for climbing very much better on icy ground. I doubt this is a significant issue if you don't have size 48 or more feet though . 

In reply to rogerwebb: 

Hi Rodger, just out of interest what boots have you got and how do you find front point protrusion? I’ve got size 46 Nepal Evos and have been considering the Lynx but was just worried about front point protrusion. In normal times I’d just go try a load on but obviously can’t do that at the moment. 

In reply to ChristianTyroll:

I have Phantom Techs and Alpha AR crux. They fit both well. 

The attached photos are of a worn Lynx on one of my wife's (very small) Nepals. In the photos the front point is set back. It could be made longer.

Hope that helps. 

In reply to HeMa:

Never throw old crampons away, behold;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/57572248@N08/50876808193/in/dateposted-public...

In reply to rogerwebb:

That’s great, thank you. 

In reply to ColdWill:

Nice. My gear is also a miss mash (Dart front-part Grivel heel). 
 

And I think the binned poons will be re-purposed as a platform for and approach ski binding. 

In reply to George Ormerod:

I've updated my crampons this season. After much research I went for Cassin Alpinist Pro which have fang points that become a flat blade further down for softer snow. I mostly climb in the lakes though so their versatility is the key thing for me. 

In reply to Baron Weasel:

https://m.epictv.com/media/podcast/testing-the-alpinist-pro-crampons-in-a-s...

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I see what you mean about the front points, but they are only marginally more 'hooded' than is typical on other vertical point crampons. Not being able to change the front points would put me off somewhat.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

You can change the front points for about £70

In reply to Baron Weasel:

https://rope-master.com/en/accessories/4338-przody-do-rakow-alpinist-tech.h...

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Its quite a lot of money.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

In relative terms to the cost of winter kit I thought it was quite cheap and as a single piece of steel has less to go wrong. 

Don't see myself going to monopoints in the near future anyway, but it was a factor in my choice and so far they have been great! 

In reply to HeMa:

That sounds interesting! How would you go about this? 

In reply to joe.91:

The rough plan is to chop off all the points and make them as light as possible. Then use the bolt of the frontpoints (G14) as a pivot axel going through a plastic/aluminium block. Round off the block so that you get a  somewhat natural xc-skiing kind of movement.

Of and place a suitable heel-raiser there as well.

This is for mellow/flat approach skis I have locally. Not for the alps (you'd need to rig something to hold the heel in place for proper downhill, plus I would be somewhat not confident on the forces generated by downhill skiing). But user mileage will vary. Besides, there are already commercially available solutions that allow proper downhill skiing... And me being a skier more, I'd be almost certain to push them too far, and the results might not be good.

For reference, the problem with my B3 class mountaineering/ice climbing  boots is the sole. It really doens't flex and then stuff like these or rather their bindings don't work https://www.skinbased.com/