UKC

I've long been a user of the old school hardshell over fleece combo for my mountaineering, and its always worked well for me.  Though, I have found for ski touring in very cold temps (not totally surprising) that a hard shell is just too unbreathable and a fleece alone doesn't block enough (any) wind.

So, I'm in the market for a lightweight, uninsulated windstopper or softshell jacket (not really sure if there are differences between the two... I stand to be educated) that is as breathable as possible to manage my vast quantities of sweat produced, while blocking wind efficiently.  No water resistance needed as will be used in -5 to -35 sort of temps.

Anyone have any recommendations?  I would prefer, if possible, to stick to my usual UK brands of Rab and Mountain Equipment, I would value decent pockets (lots of them), and it has to come in yellow... not asking much am I?

Bugger... Long reply vanished due to my crappy router...

I'd look to a lightweight microfibre wind shell, such as one of the Pertex fabrics. Essential part of a versatile layering system 

Gore Windstopper probably isn't breathable enough for your use. The tighter weave Pertex fabrics may also be the same, so maybe Equilibrium might suit best. Or one of the more permeable lightweight shell fabrics used for things like shelled Polartec Alpha, or the Nano Air.

This.

Windstopper etc isn't great for high output stuff unless it's very cold and dry (ie nowhere in the UK), but a super breathable layer with a very light windshell over the top should work.

I'd agree with what others have said about Windstopper (it has a membrane layer in the material, so is similar to a hardshell).

Have a look at Dan Bailey's recent review, on this site, of the Mountain Equipment Kinesis jacket. ME do a colour option which is partly yellow!

How about orange...? A lightweight stretch softshell, on the more permeable side. Not the most finessed design, but £20 at the moment... 

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-forclaz-600-light-hiking-windproof-jack...

I'm a big fan of the Mountain Equipment Mission. Or at least I think I am; I'm a big fan of the jacket that I do have, and I think it's the Mission from a few years ago. But my home is in Cheshire, I'm in Surrey and I'm pretty sure the jacket is in Devon - so I can't actually tell you. It's basically a double-weight Squall with more pockets and an inexplicable lack of a two-way zip.

https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/collections/mens-jackets/products/miss...

I'm a huge fan of stretch-woven softshells in general. I've worn the aforementioned jacket in a few Cairngorm hoolies and it did the job admirably. Breathes exactly like you'd expect a stretch-woven jacket to breath, and has big pit vents as an added bonus. Paired with a Nano Air and I'm pretty much dressed for the entire day in (UK) winter, uphill or downhill, stops excluded.

But no two-way zip. ME, if you're reading this...

Edit: no yellow though in the current version. No colour of any note, actually. Is 'dull red' any good? No? I agree...

...and out of stock

Thanks!  I'll have a look at the Pertex stuff.

In reply to Removed Userwaitout:

Well actually I probably wont use it for anything in the UK... only for Northern Scandi winters etc, so probably it will never get used above -10 in reality.

Thanks tehmarks.  I'll have a look at the jacket... but dull red, or orange, sort of puts it out of contention.  haha.

Slightly weird (and limiting) obsession with having most of my gear yellow, but given my salopettes are black (was a rare exception!), I can't bare to do the fashionable all-black thing.  Plus, yellow makes it much easier to find the body.

EDIT:  Had a look at the Mission and then got drawn to the Squall (comes in yellow!) but then saw that only had one pocket.  However, there is another jacket called the Echo, which is that same exolite fabric as the Squall or half weight Mission, but with the full pocket compliment.  As I think lighter weight would be better for me, not for weight but just for breathability and lack of insulation ( I sweat like mad, even just in a fleece at -25), it might be the ticket.

Anyone own the ME Echo?  Is this 'exolite' fabric one of those Pertex type ones mentioned above?

EPIRB or avalanche transceiver may be better...

Using the SOS on my InReach would make the hide-and-seek game a bit too easy for the SAR. 😜

And an avalanche trans only works if you have friends... 😥

If your use for this jacket is mainly cold winter conditions I would have a look at some of the Scandi brands as well. 

Fjällräven Keb Jacket fits the bill pretty well. Lots of stretch and windproof in all the right places. Built for high-output activities. Big stretch pockets on the front and vent zips with access to the pockets of a fleece worn underneath.

 I would like one very much but don't like the current color offerings. Lundhags make some similar jackets, I myself have recently acquired a Lundhags Mylta Jacket in Petrol/Deep Blue. It's essentially a polycotton windproof body with stretch on the upper back and around the elbows and a threelayer laminated yoke and hood. Should cover LOTS of weather conditions with this setup.

I'm also a big fan of Ventile/EtaProof materials for cold and dry winter conditions. Pretty much indestructible and highly windproof and breathable. Only downside for anything mountaineering is no stretch so the cut needs to be spot on. Plus very pricy so look at sales...

Granted, Scandi stuff tends to be a bit expensive but generally they build exactly the kind of gear you would need. 

EDIT: with regards to your question about Exolite: I own a Squall and due to the cut (slim, I can only wear fleece underneath) and only one pocket it's my summer weight softshell. If the cut would allow me to wear it with slightly puffier jackets underneath and it would have had one extra chest pocket I would gladly wear it year round. But then it would be less ideal in summer. So maybe the Echo is perfect for your needs. Exolite is a double weave stretch softshell material. More air permeable than Pertex windproof materials but also less windproof. I find it much more comfortable than windshells of any fabric. 

I have a Squall and I think it is the ultimate climbing and summer alpinism softshell - but the reason I didn't suggest it is that I wasn't sure it's be as wind-resistant as you're looking for. That said, I have worn it (for skiing) in the depths of a Chamonix winter, and it did the job perfectly fine. It's just not quite as like wearing a suit of armour as the Mission is.

If the Echo is the Squall with more pockets (same cut/etc), then I'd definitely say it's worth a look.

For what's it worth, if your current hardshell & fleece works. How about tweak it a bit.

Stash the hardshell in the backpack and put a (pertex?) windbreaker on top of the fleece for the way up. This allows you flexibility, as it is warm, you can just use the windbreaker. Cold but no breeze --> fleece, or cold and miserable (keep everything on).

That has been my method for ages for skitouring in Scandinavia... Albeit for short tours I just grind up with the hardshell open.

Another option would be to look into these new fangled insulation solutions. Stuff like 'Ryx Atom LT, Paragucci Nano Air and numerous others (I have one from Outdoor Reseach with polartec alpha and outside windblocking fabric). They work reasonably well, for both up and down... but I still prefer to have a hardshell on the down-leg... Softshell and tree branches plus high speeds are not really a long lasting combo.

I have a Squall. It is my go to shell for summer and winter if cold enough to warrant wearing a shell all the time and it's not driving rain. It's a great jacket. Mine is bright yellow, see profile pic, if fact I'm wearing it in three of the four photos in my gallery!)

The Mission is far too heavy for me, the Squall is the ideal weight. The Echo is fine, but I prefer the hood of the Squall, I have an aversion to elasticated hoods and re pockets all I need is a chest pocket as I'll have a harness on (and I HATE having pockets full of stuff, a photocopied topo in the chest pocket and I'm good to go)

If I want a shell to pack in my bag/hang from my harness I'd take my Arc'teryx Squamish, the ME equivalent would be the Aerofoil.

A tee, gridded fleece (hooded eclipse) and Squall is a pretty versatile set up.

A Mission with a nano air under it! You must run VERY cold. I bought an Nano Air (original?) in a sale having bought into the hype and though it's lovely to wear, it is far too hot for most conditions when moving fast-ish. The "Put it on, Keep it on" tag line was hype it never lived up to, it would leave me as a very sweaty mess.

Thanks for the extensive reply!  I agree that the Scandi stuff is probably the best for what I want, as basically that's what its designed for.  But having seen the eye watering prices for some (admittedly sexy) expedition ski gear recently (think 700 euros for non-membrane salopettes!), I've been put off by the idea.  Though, I'll check the ones you suggested, as perhaps some at good prices.  I don't mind spending big money if I know its 100% the right thing, such as my Hilleberg, but I'm pretty much at the experimental stage on ski expedition gear.

Glad to hear that both you and tehmarks both liked your Squals so much.  The Echo might be a winner there then.  I 'probably' don't need a suit of amour, as tehmarks beautifully put it... but haven't skied in a howling storm yet though, so yet to know for sure.

Wasn't actually planning on ditching the fleece... would need that in all but the warmest.  Plan was to ditch the hardshell totally (leave at home), and just put softshell on when the wind picks up a lot.  So, basically intending what you said

In reply to galpinos:

Great to hear!  Thanks for the feedback... Echo it is then I think.

I have the Echo and love it. I bought a second one for my wife and she lives it as well. I use it mainly for summer alpine hiking, so when it is dry but cold and windy up on a ridge. I sweat a lot and this Jacket is very good ant keeping wind out but letting moisture escape.

I also like the slim fit of it.

Have a look at the RAB Proflex Fabric jackets or the Kinetic Alpine Jacket. I have the older Kinetic and its indispensable for me as I run pretty warm especially on the approach, its breathable enough to keep on the entire time and its water resistant enough for a shower or two and climbing in it is fantastic as its super stretchy. I can highly recommend it. You will need another layer underneath / on top though if you are static however. 

I wear Brynje under all that, and suffer a bit on the way up to save messing about at the top, every top. I get pretty sweaty, I dry really quickly and I'm never particularly cold. Unzipping everything tends to provide more than enough cooling.

I'm just a fan of not continually faffing with my clothing when possible.

If you want to save yourself some money go and have a look in the workware section at your local builders merchant. Dickies make softshell jackets at a fraction of the price of outdoor manufacturers. They are owned by to same company that owns TNF. I've got one labbled as JCB. Fits well, plenty of pockets, in the right places. It's been through the washing a couple of times, cleans up well. No bobbling to the fabric surface. Cost £35.

Interesting (and thanks for replying). I am also a champion of the "less faff" approach to clothes as, as soon as my sac comes off, I seem to default to full faff mode so I like to be able to just unzip and keep trucking. I've not delved into the world of Brynje yet, maybe that is the next step....

I find the Berghaus Choktoi (Windstopper fleece) absolutely excellent, I wear one as my day to day jacket unless it's tipping it down.  Sadly though it's discontinued, though you can sometimes find them on eBay if I haven't found them and snapped them up first.

https://alpkit.com/products/morphosis-jacket-mens

or try the Alpkit Resolute an almost exact copy of the ME Mission but at £80

https://alpkit.com/products/resolute-mens-softshell-jacket

In fairness, there is a time and a place for this sort of approach. Obviously I can't recommend it less in warmer climes, but for typical UK winter conditions it seems to work reasonably well for me.

Brynje is great for how quickly it dries, irrespective of its surprising warmth. The key really is staying dry; I wouldn't fancy trying that approach with less breathable clothing. The Nano Air is something else too - I wore mine (accidentally) as an outer layer in biblical rain on my way to work, once upon a time. Half an hour of walking, soaked through, and it was mostly dey again within thirty minutes of hanging over a spare chair in a venue that wasn't particularly warm.

Me neither...

Which is why I'm rather happy about my current setup, as it is minimal faff.

Norrona Lofoten bibs for feet. Fleece (or actually unlined polartec alpha) as insulating layer and hardshell on top. If cold & windy, don't open too much of the jacket & troos vents.

Stuff skiing gloves in the tight pocket and phone plus snacks in the other. Skin up using thin liner gloves. At the top, simply close all zippers and put on the ski gloves. If any snacks left, move them to the jacket pocket (where I had the goggles, which I now put on). Take skins off and fold them into the tight pockets. Click into bindings and I'm ready to go... in fact, I do short tours without a backpack. Nice an casual for running laps on a good run (not too high, often 300m or so of vert).

If the weather is fine and too hot to skin up in the hardshell... then it's also nice enough to have a break at the top and faff around . 

I have had a ME Echo for over 2 years and love it. Use mine for 3 season UK hillwalking and climbing and foreign trips. Very stretchy and comfortable. Heavier than my old Montane Pertex ( 374 gms as opposed to 190gms), but still a reasonable weight and far more comfortable and practical for all day wear. Wind resistance is impressive, but still breathes well.

I like the pockets for hillwalking, but the lower ones are not ideally placed , if you have a harness on.

The hood is non adjustable, but fits fine over a beany or cap. 

I have much more faith in a jacket like this with adjustable layers underneath than a trendy "softshell".

Chris

For what it's worth, I have a Klättermusen Einride Etaproof jacket and gun to my head I had to choose one non-waterproof jacket out of my wardrobe to use for the rest of my life this would be it as it is just so damn versatile and durable, but with a retail price of EUR 500 it extremely expensive... I was lucky enough my size was left in a big markdown...

I bought a Haglofs windstopper jacket for skiing when I live in Finland because that's what everyone seemed to do. The fabric made it pretty hopeless, despite it being well cut and designed. Windstopper seems to pretty much be un seam-sealed Goretex, so not fully waterproof, but just as breathable as a Gore hard shell - so OK, but definitely not breathable enough for me 80% of the time. 

I definitely would never buy another coat made of windstopper. 

I'd get a lightweight windshell made of pertex or similar. Some recent contenders I've reviewed - both very good (except for the bad popper on the Montane):

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/softshell/montane_lite-speed_jacke...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/softshell/black_diamond_alpine_sta...

Surely the Echo is a (type of non-membrane) softshell? It's certainly what ME market it as. Granted, 'softshell' is a bit of a wide-ranging and woolly category of garment.

Thanks for the feedback.  Seems this fabric is well recieved.  I think I'll have to get one before they suddenly decide to change the great colours to Rab's currently bland and depressing offering.

Happy I could find something from ME or Rab... I try and stay well clear of the Alpkit stuff, and (perhaps incorrectly) don't really want to risk the outcome or comfort of an expedition for the sake of saving 50 quid buying a Decathlon-type wonder.  I think that ME is the good cost/quality tradeoff between the alpkits and the ultra upmarket Scandi stuff.

Thanks everyone for all your inputs!  I'll get myself an Echo and see how this thing fares with my sweating

I would suggest you reconsider that. It is worth trying their higher range stuff, as the materials and manufacturing quality are on a par with ME & Rab, IME. The softshell fabrics used in their mountaineering trousers (of which there are many advocates here), and a discontinued softshell jacket I wear in preference to a Rab equivalent, look very, very similar to the 'Matrix' fabrics used by Rab. They are very likely exactly the same fabric, from the same mill. It is cheap, but it is not cheap tat.

My only disappointment with them is that they come up with a great products, but then discontinue them. But they're not unique in that... Their designs aren't quite as finessed as the likes of Arc'teryx, Patagonia, etc, but they are often pretty good. Sometimes, their designs are just wrong, but an experienced outdoors type should spot those with ease. They don't usually last long in their range, so I suspect they are easily spotted...

It's a shame they are out of stock of the jacket I found; at £20, you could have at least experimented. If you didn't like it, their no quibble guarantee would have meant you lost nothing.

I'd say you are also incorrect in your assessment of Alpkit.

The problem is that people mean a lot of different things when they talk about softshells. 

There's the classic poly(ester or amide) outer bonded to a fleece backer. Then there's the Gore Windstopper laminated membrane softshells. In my mind, these two exist slightly outside the modern definition of a softshell, which I define as being anything water- and wind repellent (but not -proof) and breathable). 

Windstoppers had their place in an outdoor wardrobe once upon a time when hardshells used to be uncomfortable wrinkly plastic bags but that is no longer the case. Now they are basically the overweight remnant of a bygone era, but some people do swear by them.  

Then there are more modern designs which are basically double or triple weave stretch polyamide or polyester face fabrics but not much else. Much more breathable than the Windstopper category but also less weather resistant. But with more modern hardshells this does not matter much as you would start wearing that one anyway once precip really hits. 

There's other stuff I would call softshell as well, such as polycotton or Ventile/Etaproof, and some people call windbreakers softshell as well but IMHO they are jackets built from tent fabric. But to each their own I guess

If you intend keeping your fleece, you could put one of these over the top of it:

https://www.braemarmountainsports.com/clothing-accessories/jackets-gilets/m...

only one pocket, but if your fleece has pockets then I don’t see the issue. It really does lack down extremely small.

I did see that one while searching for somewhere that had the echo in yellow (everywhere sold out), but pockets are very important to me... keeping lunch snacks and electronics from freezing!  None on my thin fleece, which doesn't help.

However, I eventually found the seemingly last yellow XL echo in existence, so happily bought that last night

I completely agree.  I have a Choktoi that must be 15 years old now but I still use it regularly.  It has slightly odd but really effective windproof sleeves and I bought mine with a matching lightweight goretex waterproof which works perfectly together with the jacket and which has also lasted very well.

Only thing I'd warn is don't tumble dry them as that turns an XL into an L, which is not very useful!