UKC

I haven't been able to get out much recently, so I was surprised to see the parking on the Walna Scar track is now a pay and display area. I knew it was on the cards, but it was still a bit of a shock that Rydal Estates wanted to divest £8 of my money to boost their income.  They are also building a second car park in a field a few hundred.metres down the road, so much for the increasing urbanisation of our countryside. I wouldn't object as much of this money was going towards a charity, but to fatten the wallet of a large estate is too much, so I went somewhere else.

The threat to trad climbing, in this case to Dow Crag is clearly obvious.

Gits, I was hoping this had gone away after going quite for a year after the application. Did you see anything about locking the car park at night? I've stumbled back to the car in darkness after a memorable days on Dow in summer and winter.

I didn't notice anything on the sign that mentioned anything about the gate being locked, but it is a bridleway and I don't think they can lock it.

Disappointing but it was on the cards so not surprising. I suspect we will see more and more of this.

On a practical point of view what is the payment method, are you expected to have £8 in change or can you pay by card or phone?

You can park at the Church yard at Torver for a small honesty box fee. It’s not much further on the distance to Dow. 300ft lower though.

Have they fenced off and surfaced the car park then? I used to drive as far as the track to bursting stone quarry and park there. A bit rocky and not a legal carriageway but I had no complaints. 

I didn't go that way, so didn't notice. But again it's a bridleway and the quarry has to remove stone annually to retain their licence, so it shouldn't be blocked. All that will happen is that more cars will park along the track and that in itself will lead to more restrictions in a few years.

The place was one of our favourite starts for walks for many years.  Many of those years our budget for everything,  parking included, was small to nil. Just getting the family there for any sort of holiday was a stretch. 

Real shame they've done this. Honestly boxes are ignored by many but they would have raised some income (not sure if there were boxes there more recently,  we haven't been there for 10yrs now).

It's one of the spots that will suffer in the upcoming crazy UK summer and their machines are going to be busy busy!

Can also park at the school at weekends for a few quid in an honesty box, its a fair haul up the road or track though !

Absolute b*stards. £8 for what? Owning some land?

Now now youth, this is how the world works, once you accept it, life will be easier.

I really don't understand the opinions on here.  Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The lakes is rammed every year with inconsiderate parking everywhere.  Inconsiderate climbers who will happily dump their cars on grass verges.  Climbers who will argue black and white that they would pay for parking if it was card payments (My arse).   Families who will take their £50k people carrier to the lakes and dump it at the side of a road happy in the knowledge they have turned the road into a single carriageway.  Campervans who think they are wild camping but really are just dumping their metal box at the side of the road.  We even have comments about honesty boxes being ignored etc.  

So a landowner allows parking on a piece of land.  They give notice that they will be charging for this privilege in future.  They also start investing in increasing capacity for this parking facility.  The lake district is a nightmare in the summer months and removing cars from verges is the biggest issue.  I read a month or so ago the local councils are encouraging farmers by making it much easier to open up parking facilities on their land to ease the problem.  I am hoping that these spring up all over the place to generate some income, clear the roads and make the lake district a much nicer place to be.

We can argue the merits of it and people ignoring the parking and just dumping their cars even more but i hope they crack down this year on bad parking.  I would love them to invest in a clamping or removal service which would generate money for the area.

I really struggle to see what is wrong with this.

Balance the cost with every time you have parked there for free. 10p a park?

Time will tell in this, remote car parks are rarely policed. The pay and display machines could well be posh "honesty" boxes. 

yeah its steep for parking, but basically in line with other car parks in the lake district. they are cashing in on what will be a busy year.

Its sad to see. but I suspect this year will put pressure on the lake district (and other NP's) like we've never seen before. I think there is a genuine need for a reform in parking and access in and around the lake district as ultimately everyone has a right to enjoy the park and the current structure is just not able to cope with demand in peak season's which inevitably causes conflict. 

I hate commercialising of the national parks though and making places like walna scar pay and display only solves a problem for the Rydal estate, for everyone else its bad news. 

Apart from the clamping/removal service I agree. 

The lakes was a nightmare in summer a decade ago when I was living and working there. I'd imagine it will be significantly worse this summer with more people likely to be holidaying at home.

As an aside, anyone know what happened after that farmer lost the plot with a load of horribly parked cars either side of the road in Langdale a few years ago and just blasted straight through them with a tractor and trailer? A couple of them looked like write-offs.

I thought that was borrowdale near seathwaite.

Haha no the one I'm thinking of was definitely Langdale! I wouldn't be surprised if it's happened more than once.

I deliberately stayed away from the Lakes last summer. I didn't want to get upset by personally witnessing all the reported crap camping type mayhem. When I took a week off in October I headed in with some trepidation. One day I headed to Wasdale Head in the car and it was full apart from one space which I was grateful to use. Sadly, the green was being churned up by others who felt entitled to park regardless of the impact. If I'd found all spaces taken I'd have gone elsewhere. The Lakes is very busy and this year there'll be even more pressure. I hope the park authority and the police have an action plan to tackle the antisocial behaviour like litter and poor parking practice.

Oh right,yeah it happened up at seathwaite farm the one where you park to do great end ,a few car got wrecked there as well,double parked on a small lane leading to the farm.I was surprised to hear that at the time cos ive spoke the farmer a few time,nice bloke.

First, inconsiderate parking on verges doesn't really apply in this case. Although, with the new fees, it may well begin happening in earnest. The idea, however, that this is "the biggest issue" faced by Cumbria is absolutely ridiculous, and just shows that you're completely out of touch and only talking through your own myopic experience of being hacked off whilst driving in the area.

Second, we don't all have £50,000 land cruisers, ta. It's only recently with slightly more stable work and covid-19 screwing up public transport that I've got my first car - in my 30s. Until then, I was schlepping up and down the hill from Coniston village, regularly missing the bus. Before you start talking about the privilege of this and that, remember that we're not all earning top dollar in the south.

Which brings us onto the fact that putting money into the pockets of landowners will do absolutely nothing to reduce traffic and its deleterious effects on the local people and fragile Lakeland ecosystems. Far broader and more egalitarian measures are needed - approaches that are daring enough to go beyond the mistaken "common sense" idea that all the ills of Cumbria can be solved by more effectively getting tourists to spend their dough on ice cream, pay toilets and car parking.

 

There are locked barriers across the tracks out of the car park now, at least there were last time I was up there a few months ago, so no more parking up the track. On the plus side much of the area has been levelled with marked bays. One frequent frustration for me was when people parked blocking the track to the very top tier, denying access to a few extra parking spaces. That was only really an option to people who don't care about the state of their car suspension/sump though, so I can see how you would block it without realising some people might actually drive their car up there. 

It was getting a bit silly last summer with people using the car park as a campsite, or driving up the track and camping on the open fell side, I think there was a thread about it on here. I can see why the estate would try to crack down on it, or see it as an untapped source of income.

Whether this genuinely causes a problem is open to debate - after all it's an old quarry and what used to be a 'road', so it's not exactly like people are damaging a natural landscape. On the other hand not everyone is particularly good at clearing up after themselves.

I guess we'll see over the summer whether there's a knock on effect of more people parking down in Coniston etc. There were some objections to the proposals for the car park along these lines during the planning application. It's a long slog up the road though, so I guess it depends how much £8 means to you. Certainly when I was young and skint I'd have parked down in the village, or at Torver and walked up past Tranearth (the small parking area at the junction here has looked particularly busy a few times when I've been past recently so perhaps people are doing this) 

Well said. Last October when I went up there there were quite a few oversize camper vans coming down from the parking. 

it’s ridiculous.  

You seem to take everything so personally.  I will address your comments, however my original post was discussing the lake district in general, the issues and the motives for commercializing car parks.  Just because this doesn't apply to you, doesnt mean it isnt one of the issues.  You may be the one who is badly effected by this but there may be hundreds of thousands of visitors, business owners, walkers etc who dont mind paying for a lake district that hasnt got cars strewn all over the place and actually want to enjoy the place rather than sit in their car struggling to get about and find somewhere to dump it.  I once read on here that finding peace and solace in the lake district at the peak of summer is quite easy once you get away from the roads.  Surely this is a step in the right direction to make that easier for the masses.

First, inconsiderate parking on verges doesn't really apply in this case. Although, with the new fees, it may well begin happening in earnest. The idea, however, that this is "the biggest issue" faced by Cumbria is absolutely ridiculous, and just shows that you're completely out of touch and only talking through your own myopic experience of being hacked off whilst driving in the area.

Maybe i should have said the lake district roads are a nightmare.  Wow..... It is a huge problem for Cumbria and it is ruining the Lake District for is occupants, visitors and businesses.  I would say that's a big issue.  With regards to your other little dig about my own myopic experience, well ok sorry for having an opinion, thanks for reminding me this isn't the place for it anymore.  I tend to avoid the Lake District as much as i can at busy times so its not really an issue for me in truth.  I prefer an evening visit when things have calmed down on the roads anyhow.

Second, we don't all have £50,000 land cruisers, ta. It's only recently with slightly more stable work and covid-19 screwing up public transport that I've got my first car - in my 30s. Until then, I was schlepping up and down the hill from Coniston village, regularly missing the bus. Before you start talking about the privilege of this and that, remember that we're not all earning top dollar in the south.

Good for you.  Do you want a medal?  Do you want me to answer to the millions of people who visit the lake district on their own personal circumstance or is it just you i have to justify it to?  If this was about one rule for some and another for others i would be able to take your comment seriously but in the grand scheme of things, my post addressed people visiting the lake district in cars, wether they be £50k land cruisers or £100 bangers.  They take up similar space.  The point i made was about people having the means to buy such cars and then begrudging paying for parking.  As such if people who have the money wont do it, what hope for people who havent......  Again, i see you slipped in another little dig about me talking about privilege etc. I would love to know how you think i am privileged.

Which brings us onto the fact that putting money into the pockets of landowners will do absolutely nothing to reduce traffic and its deleterious effects on the local people and fragile Lakeland ecosystems. Far broader and more egalitarian measures are needed - approaches that are daring enough to go beyond the mistaken "common sense" idea that all the ills of Cumbria can be solved by more effectively getting tourists to spend their dough on ice cream, pay toilets and car parking.

So if someone puts a car park in place, earns money from it and then decides to open another car park because a) Its earning him money b)Proving that it is needed.  c) removing cars from roadside .  That is doing nothing to reduce the effects of traffic on the local people and the lakeland ecosystem?  We would all love a lake district without traffic but that simply isnt going to happen.  The next best thing is to get the cars off the roadside and into proper car parks where they can be managed properly.  

I will leave you to have the last word on this as i cant seem to give an opinion without being personally attacked for it on this website.  I love to discuss things and would happily listen to advice and suggestions of alternatives but, as is the way these days, that isnt how people like to chat anymore.

Ha! Perhaps you're right and I did take it too personally; and in turn you also took it more personally than intended. It was passionate disagreement, but I don't know who you are and I wasn't trying to get at you or to suggest you, specifically, are earning lots of money in the south. Let's take the heat out of it - sorry!

Returning to discussion of opinions: I just don't see that monetizing Walna Scar parking does anything other than make money for the landowner. I wish we had some actual solutions on the table, e.g. funding better public transport. As it is, I feel the current tourist economy model claims to benefit local people, but only really benefits the already propertied.

So if the Landowner was the national park, would that be OK?

I have been thinking of how what is in effect rationing of access can be managed, and by money strikes me as not equitable, but by effort seems fairer, so making people walk farther could be the way ahead.

I would also like to know this. I can cope with paying to park but needing to have actual cash to do so would be a proper ballache.

If the landowner is using that money directly to fund sustainable land management and conservation, then obviously that's better than using that money to build an offshore dragon hoard.

I don't feel that making people walk further is equitable either, to be honest. First, because it directly impacts users who are less mobile; second, because it negatively impacts established users.

Well you set off in your tractor like you do most days and it gets stuck.  Dammed if you got backwards dammed if you go forwards. He must have felt besieged when he clocked SOOOOOoooooo many cars parked all the way down the road for the remembrance. 

I was up there last week and there was the option to pay by card or phone,  but the machine wouldn’t accept either of my cards! I had some change in the car, so was able to pay the £4 for 4 hours (it’s £8 for all day parking. The solar panel at the top of the machine had been smashed, looked like it had been done deliberately. Maybe that was affecting the machine accepting card payments. 
 

However, the surprise of finding another pay to park and  the extortionate charges there really p****d me off. I won’t be parking up there again. I live in the Lake District and over the years many of the free parking spots have been replaced with expensive car parks. I actually don’t mind paying a couple of quid for all day parking, but £8! Really! 

That's pretty much the going rate for a day now. Certainly about that much in most of the LDNPA/NT/UU car parks I think 

Normally I’d be with you for a spot of landowner bashing, but the right to park a car isn’t a good hill to die on.

Maybe it’ll encourage car sharing, then it’s only a couple of quid each to save half an hour uphill plodding. Or stay at the NT campsite at Hoathwaite (lovely spot) and walk from your tent!

you obviously don't struggle to afford the £8 then?

when the car is shared by the members of a single household with a low income your idea helps not

hillwalking in the lakes is becoming a two tier affair

doesn't make it right though.  UU local customers should get a discount card - water charges have rocketed

yes - I saw the aftermath coming down from Gable - I was one fo the first handful back down- I felt the people parking had pretty well blocked the road and it was obvious they were preventing agricultural traffic - served them right.   It was Remembrance Sunday.

Yep, it was only an observation, wasn't out to justify it.

As others have said, it might not be an inconsequential sum for some visitors

Apologies if this is disguised amongst all the mouth-foam, but has anyone established whether
a) They're locking the gates at night but early enough to make it a big problem if you have a full day, as was proposed in the planning application?
b) Whether you can pay by practical means or if you need a big bag of those metal discs people used to carry around?
Edit: Found the bit about card/phone. Doesn't sound ideal if it's going to be banjaxed all the time.
 

What are the rules for overnight parking now?

Place was like RV site last September and I kipped in the car there myself.

It was a bridleway but was reclassified as a Byway Open to All Traffic post 2006 but now has a Traffic Regulation Order on it from the car park I think but I don't think it can legally have a locked gate across the whole carriageway. 

Unfortunately that doesn’t make it okay. There are becoming less and less places to park for free or for a fair price in the Lake District. As a local on a low wage working and living in the LDNP it is yet another thing forcing locals out of the area. I’d be interested to know what Rydal Estate propose to do with the fortune they’ll make from the charges. I suspect it will be lining the pockets of a few, but I’d like to be proved wrong. 

What makes you say that?  Is it because I am supporting the car park?  That’s because I feel the issue of parking in the lakes is quite an issue, not because I am in a position to not care about the cost.  I feel charging for parking is important to reduce the amount of cars dumped on grass verges, fund schemes for park and ride and possibly fund some clamping schemes.  I am willing to not be able to visit as often as I can to see this possible

Maybe if the parking charges were raised even further they could introduce subsidised passes for low income families etc.  Even free parking for locals........

I agree. But, I'm not up in arms over the right to park a car for free; I'm pis*ed off to see that yet again the only solution to anything that anyone can ever come up with, when it comes to national parks and rural areas in general, is to give landowners more money.

I'd like to see a lot less parking being necessary by having plentiful and cheap public transport but that's just a pipe dream I know.

It's a bit of a problem that the Lake District is over sold - seems the only type of "initiative" we ever get for the local economy is "boost tourism" rather than seeding well paid jobs.  What about the whole county being a centre/campus of green energy technology development?

Thats not how it sounded which is probably why we got our wires crossed.

Anyhow, i totally agree that just allowing landowners to make more money (They are not being given money) out of parking isnt the way forward.  I believe they should be given easier planning permissions in exchange for cheaper parking fees, Say a £5 cap.  Enough to make it very much worthwhile for them otherwise, whats the point.  But i believe the charge should include a percentage (Another £5) to be given back to the LDNP to fund projects like better public transport, free & subsidized parking for locals, annual parking passes for people like climbers who would visit regular and get the money worth out of say £50 pass.

A visitor to the lakes who has spent ££££ on accommodation, ££££ on travel and wants to get around the Lakes in comfort should not begrudge paying £10 to park their car.

The LDNP is a jewel in the crown on a par with London and should milk visitors for every single penny to benefit the local community, the workers and the infrastructure.  Imagine a fund so large that they could start helping local young adults to get first properties in the LDNP and keep out all the 2nd homers.

The thing that saddens me about all this is that there is no "plan for the future". I think we can all agree that the standard of parking in the Lakes is shocking and we need to do something about getting all the badly parked cars off the verges. The depressing thing is the only solution offered is to tarmac some farmers fields, charge £8 and job done. Where's the plan for a comprehensive public transport network? Who trying to get park and ride set up? You look at the European alpine areas and you can often grab a bus from your campsite to your destination, is anyone looking into that?

The issue is too many cars in the Lake district and the answer to the issue in reduce the number of cars. No-one seem to be asking how we do that. I've been trying to plan a weekend to the Lakes without using a car and it is remarkably tricky. That needs to change.

Its a dangerous route to go down. Would you be happy being made to pay double for public transport when in London to help local young adults there get a foot on the housing ladder there? What about the car park for Furness General hospital, while housing might be cheap in Barrow the town is very deprived and could really do with milking outsiders for every penny to get some regeneration going

Thats Londons issue to deal with.  In my eyes that ship has sailed but if they want to do that, good luck to them.  It would be my choice to avoid it or not.

People living in Barrow need as much help as they can get.  Forget about raising a few quid from parking, i would raise income tax and give it to them to try to appease their suffering.  

In reality, Barrow has not got much going for it so raising funds based on milking outsiders isnt going to be very successful.  There are parts of the LDNP which will be absolutely overun this year and with a bit of creativity they could help the region out massively.  Regardless of taking their money or not, they are coming and they will make it feel horrible if something isnt done about it.

Do you not think that this ends in a dysfunctional society with every local area attempting to monopolize the infrastructure and features that happen to be in their area to benefit themselves at the expense of all others? Lancashire could decide to charge non-residents for using its section of the M6, after all people driving from the South to Scotland contribute nothing but air pollution to Lancashire. There is a power station less than 2 miles from my house, should the town council demand that local residents get power for free but those who don't have to have this eyesore on their doorstep pay extra to compensate for this?

Basically, I'm not disagreeing that something should be done about parking in the Lakes, not that I know what the answer is, but I cannot see the justification in taxing visitors to pay for housing for people who happen to be born, or have chosen to live, (not sure on your definition of local) in the area.

Would it make a difference how the person came to own the land. Say I owned it from money I had earned and saved,  rather than some hereditary land owner,  and was sat up there in my flat cap with my red nose and imbecilic grin, taking the £8 to feed my family, would that be different?

 

Is 'A' different from 'B'? Well, yes, of course it's different.

Do I resent a family farmer running a campsite and casual carpark? No, not really. Unless he's setting his dogs on me. Might even be happy to buy an ice cream off him and shoot the sh*t. Do I resent the Duke of Westminster? Of course I do - it's a different league. Do I think, in general, people should be able to privately own vast tracts of land? No. Do I think this is intricately connected to growing social inequality and ecosystem destruction? Yes.

I agree the tax for housing idea is problematic but I see no issue with a tourist tax added to accommodation fees (a la the continental taxe de sejour or the like) used to improve public transport etc.

I too would like to know whether you can get locked in - and what time it opens in the morning?

This is interesting. Would you think Climbing Clubs should collect a tax per bed night, which would be the direct opposite of what happens at the moment where Climbing Clubs claim SBR to avoid Tax to subsidise the members, though admittedly this goes to central and not local funds.

An issue for me is if I get in on a bus in the ELD it costs circa £5 to £8 a trip, whilst frequently, but not all, well heeled pensioners hop on for free, some use it as a free taxi back from the ODG.

I've no idea, I'm an engineer, not a public funding policy expert! My only point was that the taxe de sejour works on the continent and that it could be used in an area like the Lake District. There are enough hotels, posh house lets, air bnbs, etc rented in a calendar year to drum up a decent pot I would imagine?

Re houses, I do think something could be done re reducing second home ownership and providing affordable housing for locals but again, not my area of expertise. 

My general issue is that there is no "big thinking" being done to get us towards a future we would like to see*, just sticking plasters being used to solve "easy" issues.

*Maybe it's just me but affordable housing for locals, jobs in the area that aren't predominantly low paid tourist service industry jobs, a comprehensive interconnected eclectic bus service, park and ride car parks on the edge of the national park bring people in by bus etc.

I'd agree with all that. The problems with the lakes in particular is groups like 'Friends of the Lake District', whose sole aim seems to be to sabotage any attempt to improve transport and infrastructure or provide non-tourist jobs or affordable housing for local people.

I've done several short backpacks through the Lakes using combined rail/bus link ups. Mind you, it was handy living in Lancaster within walking distance of the rail and bus stations. Did Ravenglass by train then walk to Keswick and 555 bus back. Similar trips starting from Ambleside and Staveley.

I'm contemplating creating some concealed resupply dumps in high places before the summer rush to make a backpacking trip more enjoyable..

do you think I should booby trap them against freeloading robbers?

Put everything into tupperware to prevent mice access. Planting a turd inside may deter human thieves?

Assuming you are serious.... please don't. It's just litter. I would remove it if I came across it. A few days of dehydrated meals hardly weigh much compared to sleeping kit.

it would not be litter as I would leave nothing behind me.  I do take your point though.  I went on a ten mile road walk yesterday and saw large items of litter every few inches, from bottles to plastic sacks, pieces of agricultural plastic (Eden Valley) - I saw enough of what people left here last summer to know about litter.

You would not find what I hide anyway. When I say concealed I mean that.  I am thinking of planning this way now because of less access to a car, the expense of parking and the price of buses and campsites.

Loads of large Free car parks !  Problem sorted  , nobody owns the lake district , they just think they do ! 

I think there is a valid argument for making some Lakeland valleys park and ride only between Easter and October. But it would have to have very cheap bus fares (£1 a go sort of thing).

Wasdale would be the easiest one to sort out first due to the low number of residents and cal-de-sac nature of it.

There's a bizarre contradiction at the moment in the lakes regarding use of cars. Portinscale is shortly going to be getting a dedicated car park to reduce pressure on the rest of the village with the aim of park n ride to Catbells. Nearby Whinlatter forest, which does an excellent job of concentrating visitors away from other areas, is not allowed to expand car parking despite almost unlimited tree cover hiding it's visual impact. 

I enjoy doing linear routes in the lakes but the bus fares are eye wateringly high. As soon as there are two of you there little incentive not to use two cars.

It would be great to see a Chamonix style transport scheme set up which would reduce the need for so many car journeys on the main routes.

It would also help if the powers that be understood the meaning of national in NP, ie for and belonging to the nation, ie us not just them.

Also there are lots of quiet roads where parking on verges or laybys would be quite appropriate , except that the powers that be would rather spend our cash on putting boulders in the way of parking so we have little alternative but use the metered car parks .

It does help to pay their wages and feed their egos. 

Self serving empire building burocrats as I wrote in my complaint email to the LDNP planning application for the walna scar parking.

Well yes, a bit of quiet diplomacy like that often works wonders, I find!  

Not my style

I know this will attract dislikes but I think it's time to consider limiting numbers in certain locations, I really feel for the people who have to live and work in the honey pot valleys and the routes to and from them, I know some of them rely wholly on the tourist industry but the infrastructure in Wasdale Head etc just can't cope with the amount of visitors, if you have ever had the displeasure to be in the valley at peak 3 peak season you will fully understand what i mean.

I have been saying this for years, it needs a park and ride or similar or subsidised transport system, trouble is nobody wants a 1000 cars parked in a field next to them and somebody has to fund it.

Another linear route fan here, we often use the 555 to get to central/northern lakes and run back but I agree, the fares are fearsome, it's good value if you are buying the roamer day ticket and hopping on and off but as a single for two people its pretty steep

Yottenfews car park would work well for Wasdale, easily over 1000 spaces and google maps satellite view suggests that Sellafield employees barely use it at the weekend (assuming that photo is from a weekend), easy access from the A595 and even a helipad if that's your preferred travel method

Why would you want to be at Wasdale Head at peak 3 peak season? Not a great idea, certainly not during the weekend.

Go somewhere else, go another time. I know we all want to be on a particular hill/crag like now (because that's the route I want to do etc), but with the numbers in the Lakes, that just isn't always possible unless you're prepared to accept too many people, slow roads, etc.

There is enough room in the Lakes for the current number of visitors, the problem is that too many of them want to be in a particular place/area at a particular time.

If some way could be found to spread people out, then most of these overcrowding issues would disappear.

Part of the problem is that too many visitors have too little knowledge of places to go, or too little ability of how to find alternatives (or have never been shown how to find these alternatives). The result is that loads of people end up at the honeypot locations. Meanwhile other lovely locations can be stunningly empty.

One question that I think people should ask themselves is "would I rather be at the most dramatic/best locations with overcrowding or would I rather be at a slightly less dramatic/good/whatever location but with solitude or just a few others?"

We were in the N Lakes for a week last August and totally avoided the crowds (except at Booths in Keswick) by a bit of judicious use of a map and avoiding honeypot areas in peak hours. Even places like Borrowdale were pretty empty to drive along at 7 in the evening.

Sorry, Michael but the selfish side of me would rather the hordes stay in the honeypots. I'd prefer the lesser known places to stay that way not be pointed out to then be trashed in their turn.  It was pretty evident last year that many previously quiet places had been 'discovered' and were being marred by increased visiting. It's almost a given now that more people equals problems of erosion, litter and antisocial behaviour. I don't do social media like Facebook so don't know if that's where a lot of crap campers are getting there info from. The folks who dragged all their sh1te up and dumped it at Angletarn last summer probably didn't get it from Wainwright or Ordnance  Survey.

Sorry, but Northern Fells are shocking and wet and boring and wet so please keep going somewhere else.

East Ridge of Bannerdale Crags for example,  total rubbish. 

Grasmere,  Hawkshead, Bowness,  these are the places to flock to. Much nicer....

Yeah ! flatten the hills and Tarmac it all over.  Problem solved.

Never heard of them! The only place to be on a Bank Holiday is Helvellyn or Catbells - never seen a soul up there.

I agree with you, I think I'm talking theoretically - with proper distribution the Lakes needn't be a crowded experience.

You're talking about what happens on a practical level because the "new" people that are the extra that tips crowding over the edge, are not coming to the Lakes with the same ethos, background and appreciation of what's there as us traditional visitors (or residents).

I caught the bus from the top of Dumail Raise to Keswick and the driver was going to charge me about £8 for the 5 mile trip. Luckily I only had £4.50 on me so he kindly let me on. This trip would cost roughly 70p by car! Threlkeld - Keswick is also extortionate, good job the path is reopen!

Who was that bugger The Westmoreland Gazette was after, went on gardening leave for years, then quietly retired, wasn't he head of the park. That skeleton needs dragging out of closet and dusting off. Never did find out what was going on there. Tittleshaw or something

Mrs Ridge though it would be a good idea to take the bus from Cockermouth to Keswick (and back) about 12 years ago. I remember having to turn out my pockets and empty my wallet then!

You end up there at that time because if that's when you get the perfect fortnight of warm dry weather you put up with the three peakers to climb on Scafell or Pillar, you can't be too picky about when you get to crags like those, you go when they're 'in' or you don't go at all.

Fair enough, but then you do it knowing that you'll have to accept the "unless you're prepared to accept too many people, slow roads, etc"

Because we grabbed a quick weekend away with good weather to recce some of the BG lines and another race in an out of the valley, I hadn't realised what an absolute s***show the 3 peaks has become.

It won't happen again, which is sad as my family are from West Cumbria so have childhood memories of being in Wasdale and the surrounding areas many times, but is off limits in summer now....

The buses can be good value if you want unlimited daily travel but not otherwise

3 peakers are the LAST people the lakes should be accommodating. you are writing off one of the nicest valleys in the lakes and arguably the best destination in England for mountain crags. 

No genuine visitor who actually wants to spend time in the aria (and possibly money too) should be put off because of some contrived challenge which clogs up the valley night and day. if its busy because of genuine visitors then that's one thing, 3 peakers are an unnecessary load on the system. 

No need to make a song and dance about it?

The thing with the three peakers is that their timings are quite predictable. They usually follow one of two overlapping 'shifts' as outlined here

https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/national-three-peaks-challenge/timing

They arrive from about 11pm onwards and are gone by 8 or 9am so if you travel outside those times you don't get snarled up in the traffic and they aren't on the hill at the normal times walkers and climbers will be.

When I've climbed on Scafell in 3 peaks season my only encounter with them is a few exhausted looking stragglers still limping down with their blistered feet as I'm walking in to the crag but it doesn't cause me any problem. Climbing on Pillar or Gable and you don't see them at all.

Crikey what a lot of fuss about 8 quid.

Get your hands in your pockets you cheapskates!

Or walk in from Torver.

what a stupid comment

money to burn?

Sounds a bit extreme to me , I was thinking more just some actual car parks free to use , I,e  what the people want  ! 

It is not about the money, it is a matter of principle.

DC