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ARTICLE: Women's Climbing in Iran: Boundaries, Bans and a Brighter Future

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 UKC Articles 24 Mar 2021

Some women choose to wear hijab while climbing outdoors. 'You have to pick your battles.'

Reports of a violent confrontation and a temporary ban imposed on female climbers at a popular climbing and canyoning area in Iran raised eyebrows and voices on social media earlier this month. A video showed an individual attacking a group of canyoners in the recreational area of Dorcheh, near to the city of Isfahan and a pilgrimage site, who was angered by the participation of women. Following the confrontation, Isfahan's mountaineering board banned women from local recreational sites in the interim as a precautionary measure, including Koohe Sefid sport crag, and encouraged female climbers to stick to indoor facilities instead until the situation is resolved.

In 2016, three Iranian women spoke to UKClimbing.com about their experiences of climbing in their country for an article titled 'Pushing Boundaries'. Voices were beginning to be heard and listened to, discussions were had, doors were tentatively opened. This latest incident in Dorcheh, five years on, would suggest otherwise and raises important questions: what's the state of women's climbing in Iran now? Are boundaries being pushed too far for some people's liking? To onlookers, the ban gives the impression that doors are slamming shut in the face of Iranian women once again, both in terms of the aggressor's attitude and the unilateral ban imposed by authorities.

*Please refrain from discussing political issues in this thread due to the sensitive nature of the situation.*


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 Si Witcher 24 Mar 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

> *Please refrain from discussing political issues in this thread due to the sensitive nature of the situation.*

Good luck with that. Thanks for the article though. Wouldn't it be safer to disable comments completely?

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 Durbs 24 Mar 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Great article - a very interesting read.

Hopefully it's a case of "slow and steady pace", I don't think in Iran we're likely to see a sudden culture shift, but as the newer generations come through, hopefully conservative opinions are shifted further to the background - although sadly the state leaders will likely continue to panda to the conservative masses whilst they can.

 Michael Gordon 24 Mar 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

It's very difficult when a country's religious, social, economic and political culture propagates what many other cultures would see as the oppression of women.  

 Ciro 24 Mar 2021
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> It's very difficult when a country's religious, social, economic and political culture propagates what many other cultures would see as the oppression of women.  

Are you sure you didn't mean "propagates what many other cultures would see as even more oppression of women that their own."?

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 Michael Gordon 24 Mar 2021
In reply to Ciro:

Quite sure, yes.

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 TobyA 24 Mar 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Kudos to the writer for being brave enough to use the term "liminal spaces" in a UKC article! 😀 Best wishes to the women climbers of Iran.

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 65 24 Mar 2021
In reply to Durbs:

> Great article - a very interesting read.

> Hopefully it's a case of "slow and steady pace", I don't think in Iran we're likely to see a sudden culture shift, but as the newer generations come through, hopefully conservative opinions are shifted further to the background - although sadly the state leaders will likely continue to panda to the conservative masses whilst they can.

The conservative masses likely comprise a much smaller and older demographic than you may imagine. Ishfahan however is a particularly conservative city, I suspect this would be much less likely to happen around Shiraz for example. I do hope that the progress made during the Obama/Rouhani years can be recovered. 

Well done on a very good and important article Natalie.

Removed User 25 Mar 2021
In reply to 65:

> The conservative masses likely comprise a much smaller and older demographic than you may imagine. Ishfahan however is a particularly conservative city, I suspect this would be much less likely to happen around Shiraz for example. I do hope that the progress made during the Obama/Rouhani years can be recovered. 

> Well done on a very good and important article Natalie.

Good insight there.

I've had a bit to do with climbing in Iran and what I've seen has been perhaps surprisingly free to many who've swallowed the rhetoric on the country. The religious bigotry seen in this incident doesn't reflect the whole (which I think Natalie makes clear and big kudos for getting this out there).

Several years back an international women's climbing meet was arranged, ice climbing, as Iranian women are among the worlds best, held in a place north of Tehran and fully backed by the national federation. The negative was the way foreign athletes (we won't name names) and their sponsors carried on (despite those same sponsors supporting Iranian athletes). For all the invitations and hospitality extended by the local women EVERY big name foreign climber pulled out. In my view pathetic from a sponsors position but arguably no better for the athletes who still wouldn't go on their own initiative (note Iran has some very good ice, is very cheap and the locals were taking care of everything).

In the end a group of unbranded, unfamous women who just liked climbing and paid their own way (and their husbands/boyfriends) went and had a great time. The federation certainly laid it on with an on-going 7 day feast, trips all over the Alborz, skiing for those who wanted it, staying in climbers homes and village guesthouses, sing, dancing and hanging out. For a group so let down by a scene and industry they thought for a moment supported them, they were admirably polite about it. Made me think twice about this supposed international climbing 'community' though, I choose my purchases differently now because of it (noting how some of these brands a decade ago also wouldn't back climbers in China - until there was a dollar to be made from it).

Good work Natalie and UKC (who have reported on Iranian women's climbing before). Maybe one day the equivalent of the Freedom Climbers can happen for climbers in Iran.

Hope that doesn't contravene the 'no politics' rule.

 Michael Gordon 25 Mar 2021
In reply to Removed Userwaitout:

I suspect many of the other athletes would have liked to have gone but were understandably put off by the political situation.

Post edited at 07:47
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 65 25 Mar 2021
In reply to Michael Gordon:

With few exceptions, that's my age too. A sorry state of affairs nevertheless.

Waitout: thanks for all that, it fills in some gaps and confirms some of what I'd heard. Great that the Iranians made the best of it but I'd expect no less.

 tehmarks 25 Mar 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Great article Natalie, thank you.

I do strongly believe that things in the middle east and elsewhere in much of the less-free world are moving in a very positive direction, and I really believe that we should not judge on the present state of affairs so much as we should judge on the trend. 50 years ago we were not the bastion of freedom ourselves (the treatment of Mr. Turing and thousands of unknown gay men attests to that), nor 100, nor even more recently; I think it’s important that we recognise that not everywhere in the world is at where we currently are, and we allow them the space to prove they are heading in the right direction. You can’t drag entire societies against their collective will into the ‘western ideal’. We just have to trust that they will get there – and influence by example, and by moral pressure, when they are lagging behind. Shouting loudly and judgementally from afar does absolutely nothing useful and is best left to those with a direct stake in things. We should celebrate every move they do make in the right direction and have faith that eventually they will arrive at a society that is equitable and fair for all.

As alien as it may seem to many of us in the west, the culture in these lands is deeply ingrained and will not change quickly. It will take a while for that balance to alter, particularly as the younger generations gain influence.

And, as an aside and on a personal level rather than a political level, out of all of the places that I have visited for fun or for work, the people of the middle east are the most friendly and welcoming I have ever met. Almost unfailingly so.

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 65 25 Mar 2021
In reply to 65:

> With few exceptions, that's my age too. A sorry state of affairs nevertheless.

Just noticed an autocorrect blooper: that was meant to say, "that's my take too."

Removed User 25 Mar 2021
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> I suspect many of the other athletes would have liked to have gone but were understandably put off by the political situation.

Yes I think so, but this was during the Obama/Kerry times when things were good. The athletes were interested but industry had their ear. They all said yes initially, then one by one backed out... None of the amateur climbers did.

Removed User 25 Mar 2021
In reply to 65:

> Waitout: thanks for all that, it fills in some gaps and confirms some of what I'd heard. Great that the Iranians made the best of it but I'd expect no less.

Yes. I see even now that climbers from Eastern Europe and Asia still go to Iran as a fairly normal thing, not all places have the negative view some countries do. And yes, without fail the people I know who've been there are stunned by the reception & hospitality. From my own trips there, it's the defining element. Then of course there's the big walls, alpine mixed, ice, desert crags....

Removed User 25 Mar 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

Very good points. Iran is a perfect example of 'good people/bad leaders' (which is too simplistic but makes the point) where the difference between the bullshit and bluster of an  XYZ-ocracy runs separate to a lot of the populations lives. Yet many outsiders choose to buy into this bullshit rather than the real day to day.

Something great to see is the way food is spear heading the way Iran is shown (and often Americans going there). Youtube etc has heaps of film about eating in Iran that shows it (I think) realistically. It's not the war torn dust bowl some think it is at all.

Of course the country isn't perfect - every Iranian will concur with that - but it's more open and tolerant than some other places.

 Michael Gordon 26 Mar 2021
In reply to Removed Userwaitout:

I imagine many are put off by the Ratcliffe situation. If it can happen to one innocent woman then in theory it could happen to any of us.

 seankenny 26 Mar 2021
In reply to Removed Userwaitout:

>  And yes, without fail the people I know who've been there are stunned by the reception & hospitality. From my own trips there, it's the defining element. Then of course there's the big walls, alpine mixed, ice, desert crags....

Iran is a great country to visit and pretty modern in many respects. I would definitely like to hear more about Iranian rock climbing if you have any info to share!

 65 26 Mar 2021
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> I imagine many are put off by the Ratcliffe situation. If it can happen to one innocent woman then in theory it could happen to any of us.

Not really. Nazanin Z-R holds dual UK and Iranian nationality, but Iran doesn't recognise this so to all intents and purposes she is Iranian when in Iran. This holds for all dual nationals, not just her. It would be a different kettle of diplomatic fish with a foreign national. I am sure that many people here are least might be put off by this case though, assuming they could get a visa in the first place.

 Frank R. 26 Mar 2021

So, is there any way we can support their climbing, without being the proverbial elephant in a glass house and endangering their own negotiations on the very local and other levels? Since from my (even if short) experience in Iran, the Iranians know their current situation the best. Is there anything that can be helped from our side? More invites to intl. climbing meets, or would that be contra productive for what they try to do locally? What do they think about it?

Post edited at 22:06
Removed User 26 Mar 2021
In reply to Michael Gordon:

To add to 65's point; yes people may - if that's as far as they were willing to look into going there got and is borderline confirmation bias. Searches elsewhere bring up loads of travelogues and reports of normal tourists going there without issue. The normal visitor has no more reason to be detained than a visitor to the US has of being shot or a tourist to the UK being glassed in a pub.

Removed User 26 Mar 2021
In reply to Frank R.:

> So, is there any way we can support their climbing, without being the proverbial elephant in a glass house and endangering their own negotiations on the very local and other levels? Since from my (even if short) experience in Iran, the Iranians know their current situation the best. Is there anything that can be helped from our side? More invites to intl. climbing meets, or would that be contra productive for what they try to do locally? What do they think about it?

To my mind (and I won't speak for Iranians themselves, just a cheerleader), but I think this is about the only good thing social media is for. Iranians are quite prolific on some platforms (instagram last I looked) and their own.

Invites don't seem to be a problem as they have a solid presence in ice and bouldering, but more can't hurt of course.

I really do think the 'Freedom Climbers' thing is a sort of blueprint; climbers going abroad and making a point to connect. Iranian climbers have a presence anywhere anyone else does and those I know are more than willing to discuss these things. Personally I've made friends in basecamps that lead to meeting up in Iran later.

Perhaps too wishful thinking but it would be nice to see companies fill the gap where those who have the problem make one. Henry Rollins talks about infiltrating the place with flash drives filled with Ramones and Hawkwind albums, imagine doing that with small brand climbing gear where the big corporate brands won't. There was a time when climbing had that streak through it.

Simply piercing the membrane of disinformation about the place foisted by the monoculture of media is half of it. Climbers are no more their government than Honnold is.

Removed User 26 Mar 2021
In reply to seankenny:

> Iran is a great country to visit and pretty modern in many respects. I would definitely like to hear more about Iranian rock climbing if you have any info to share!

As a woeful rock climber (are you drunk? type stuff) I don't know much about cragging there, but have been to walls in the Alborz (Azad Kuh) that are amazing. I'll dig about and email you, and there's a few websites too.

 Michael Gordon 27 Mar 2021
In reply to Removed Userwaitout:

> Searches elsewhere bring up loads of travelogues and reports of normal tourists going there without issue.

I don't doubt it, but the perceived risk is still there.

"The normal visitor has no more reason to be detained than a visitor to the US has of being shot or a tourist to the UK being glassed in a pub."

The difference is that it isn't some random individual but the country's authorities. It's harder to mitigate against.

Post edited at 09:07

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