UKC

The BMC have released a new set of codes and a video as part of their Respect the Rock campaign called Respect the Wild. As restrictions ease and our desire for outdoor travel and adventure reaches its peak, human impact on sensitive outdoor spaces must be minimised. Here's how to enjoy the outdoors responsibly.

"Code for wild van camping

Use campsites whenever available."

In other news:

Code for wild swimming, use swimming pools whenever possible.

Code for foraging, use supermarkets whenever possible.

"remember, light and sound travel alot further at night"

Someone should tell physics...

Preaching to the choir here.... This would be a good article on The Daily Mail or The Sun etc!

Whilst I'd love to agree, the following thread - coupled with my own experiences - suggest that whilst climbers are by no means the worst, they could also do a lot better.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/a_plea_if_you_need_to_poo_or_pe...

Last year I spent a lot of time visiting Horseshoe, doing a butterfly transect which meant I was there week in, week out. I was both amazed and appalled by the amount of disrespect I saw for the site: lots of tents, lots of fire pits, lots of rubbish and lots and lots of poo. It was the overt nature of each which amazed me, as there was no attempt at discretion of any kind. This went for tents, which were often left up all day, but the one which really got to me was where people were pooing. It's one thing shitting in the woods, but it's another shitting in the middle of a footpath, which is something I've come across on more than one occasion. 

Given that Horseshoe is a site that is quite specifically used by climbers there's no one else to blame but ourselves, so a campaign such as this is hopefully a timely reminder of best practise.

Agreed.

That's the main issue, that the very people that need this message are those most unlikely to hear it.

As a full time ML, I am dreading this summer, as I used to work out of my van, and can make at least 4 nights without needing a commercial campsite. Now, with the expected influx vs. the uncertainty of what will be open, I doubt I will be able to get on anywhere even if I want to.

.....And when I am roadside, I will understandably be tarred (and feathered) along with everyone else I suspect

As if losing my livlihood hasn't been hard enough

Would any of the dislikers like to try using their words to explain why self contained van parkup should be seen as a last resort, and not a choice for peace and quiet/money saving/convenience?

I expect Priti Patel to be against the freedoms of the traveller lifestyle, less so the climbing community with its long tradition of living frugally to spend time immersed in the outdoors.

Don’t do dislikes, but I’ll have a go at explaining anyway.

Wild swimmers don’t shit in the water. 
Foragers don’t shit in the woods (unless they’re 300kg and furry).

Sadly, after last summer, responsible campers are going to pay the price for the irresponsible behaviour of others. 

We don't ask people to only drink alcohol as a last resort because some people are anti social when they drink, and we don't ask people to only drive as a last resort because some people drive irresponsibility fast.

Why should van parking be different?

As an organisation which claims to be "the representative body that exists to protect the freedoms and promote the interests of climbers, hill walkers and mountaineers, including ski-mountaineers.", the BMC should be loudly condemning irresponsible behaviour while championing the right to park up responsibly IMO.

This well thought-out initiative has made a difference  - a properly researched intervention that's being properly monitored as well......not sure I'd want the monitoring job though! https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/park-authority/how-we-perform/shhh-hap...

You think? Or perhaps you're applying a more circumscribed definition of wild swimming than you consider for wild van campers? I've heard horror stories of what swimmers encounter at beaches. 

Not great analogies to be honest. Alcohol is carefully controlled and licensed in terms of sales, age of use, drink-driving. Driving, again is a highly controlled activity (insurance,licenses speed limits, parking restrictions, car taxes) 
Vans are not like wild camping, they are much more restricted in terms of where they can go (roadside). 
wild swimming analogy vs van camping, again  I’d have thought wild camping is a nearer equivalent. Same with foraging. Vans have a greater impact than your posts imply. Presumably you’re a van owner so I’d say hang on until next year, use a bit more discretion while people are holidaying nearer to home and you and the other responsible van owners will get less hassle as well as avoiding any over reacting backlash against vans. When people can go on foreign holidays again it’ll settle down to a more normal pattern. Things are incredibly busy in the national parks and popular spots right now. 
nothing against vans really to be honest but I think we can do things to get through this next year without causing unnecessary antagonism, another year and the message will be a different one I’m sure. 

Why should van parking be different?
 

To be clear, I’m sympathetic. Some of my best friends are van campers! But it’s not unusual for the responsible to be penalised along with the guilty - that’s how speed humps happen. 
Maybe the BMC are playing a long game. You mentioned Priti Patel, who’d probably love an excuse to kick scruffy climbers. 

It's really interesting how often there are a number of large vans now parked in the Horseshoe parking area. 1) They are considerably longer and a fair bit wider than most cars which I'm sure leads to there being one or two less parking spots available if everyone was in a car but 2) the fact they are often there overnight makes them really stand out. People seem to be parked up there for a number of days, which makes them more noticeable.

Rob - it's a real shame what you saw at Horseshoe and I'm not trying to cast doubt on it in any way but I was a moderately frequent visitor to HQ last summer and have been once this winter also, and my impression has been different. I've seen virtually no litter in Horseshoe compared to crags that climbers share with lots of people out for a walk. So Curbar and Baslow are obvious and nearby counter examples to HQ where I've often needed to pick up cans, bottles, and other litter. I have seen the odd tent in Horseshoe and would agree taking it down during the day seems like a sensible idea, but I've seen lots more vans in car park where people seem to be camping.

Some good advice there, though I'd would like to see the word 'wild' removed from the advice about van camping.

Recently the NC500 site have added some guidance on their site and it would be good to see this article added there too.

As said above those who really need to read and take heed of this will probably never see it, and it is concerning that those of us who have occasionally or regularly pull up for the night in a car or van and caused no disturbance could easily suffer through the actions of others.

 However, anything that might help the situation is welcome.

Dave

As a recent convert to the portapotty (<£60) I can’t understand how or why anyone could stay in a van without one. If there’s no room in the van then a pop up toilet tent (<£30) is all you need for privacy. Impractical for wild camping but there are lots of carry out options. Before balking at the price think of what you’re saving on campsite fees, let alone the cost of your van and climbing/outdoor equipment. Before balking at the chemicals, what do you think happens to what you flush down the toilet?

There are too many people in the same places at the same time for wild pooing to be an environmentally acceptable solution in most areas of the UK.

I agree with others that this is not preaching to the choir.  I’ve encountered far too many piles of poo decorated with toilet paper (what’s that about?) in climbing areas the last few years that can only have been left there by climbers.  We do need to get our own house in order.

Completely agree. We bought one last summer so that we didn't have to use the site toilets. Our van is only small but even so its not a problem having the loo and a little tardis tent with you. 

IIRC when we went to NZ a couple of years ago, all the hire "vans" many of which were really only people carriers all had to have a loo otherwise they couldn't freecamp.