UKC

I don't know if these petitions make any difference, but here's a link if you fancy signing it https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/580772?fbclid=IwAR2PRdBZhV7QGsZLCj...

Signed 

Thanks. Signed and shared!

"Mandatory printing of car registration numbers on all Drive Thru packaging."

I already signed this one, more as a kind of gesture of solidarity because the amount of littering lately is doing many of our heads in, than in the expectation that it might do any good. 

Have to admit though, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.  For one thing, it seems to rest on the assumption that printing something on all the packaging, let alone the correct car registration number, is easily done and I'm not entirely sure that's the case.

It also seems to rest on the assumption that people who just lob their litter out of the car window would actually care about it having their reg. number on, but why would they?  It seems like an attempt to shame the shameless by making the litter almost, but not quite, identifiable.  If they're paying for their takeaway by card printing those numbers on the packaging would give them more of an incentive not to leave it lying about the place.  (Not a serious suggestion.)

I think if you wanted a straightforward bit of legislation to tackle rubbish being chucked out of cars it'd make more sense to make it an offence for the 'registered keeper' to allow litter to be chucked out of their vehicle.  (Or to fail to identify the actual miscreant, a bit like how speed camera tickets are enforced.)

That way there would be no need to positively identify the occupants of the vehicle responsible for littering at the time - video footage of litter being chucked out of the window (eg: dashcam footage from another vehicle), or a McDonalds wrapper with the reg number printed on it fished out of a roadside hedge, would be sufficient evidence for a fixed penalty notice.

Would it look anything like this bit of legislation? https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2018/9780111163818

The litter along the side of the Tumble, a classic road climb in Abergavenny, often reaches horrendous levels. Much of it is Mcdonald's packaging and, to their credit, when I emailed them about it they organized s litter pick and tidied it up. 

Ha.  Didn't even cross my mind to check to see if it was already a thing.  For three years already!  Well in that case, I guess this petition makes more sense than I thought.

Still needs to actually be enforced though.  Any idea how that's going?  Have there been many fines dished out yet?  It seems like win/win for the district councils if they can use the money to finance dealing with the litter and fly-tipping better.

Perhaps a bit of PR to let numpties like me and (more the the point) the litter chuckers know about it would be called for.  And maybe set something up for people to upload bits of dashcam footage to dob them in.  Maybe something national that can then forward things to the appropriate local authority?

You're full of good ideas today 😉

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/council-urge-drivers-turn-...

Years ago I was driving and saw a shopping bag chucked out of a car behind me. I pulled in and let it go past - got the reg - and went back to pick up a half-eaten cooked chicken from a local supermarket. Took it down to the local cop shop and gave a statement. Would I be prepared to attend court if they contested it - sure. As I wasn't asked to appear I can only assume the driver got to pay the (£80?) fine. Nail the ignorant b@stards.

I don't know that one but I feel your pain. There are so many roads, paths, beautiful places etc that I've known for 40 years, that in just the last few years have become covered in litter. Without exaggerating, it's depressing, it's part of the depressive illness I'm being treated for. There's times I've looked at the state of these places and cried. 

I often am.  I've also invented some brilliant things that have already existed for years.

Unfortunately for North Ayrshire Council, the legislation you linked to only applies in England so it's no help to them.

Closer to home I just had a look at the websites of a few different district councils covering bits of the Peak District and couldn't find anything encouraging people to dob in people chucking litter out of car windows.  (Or indicating that there's maybe more point in doing so than there was a few years ago, since there's no longer any need to identify the driver to issue a FPN.)

Same for North Ayrshire funnily enough (unless I'm being very dim - which, in general, clearly I am): if you hadn't seen that news story I don't think anything on their own website would encourage you to send them your dashcam footage.

So maybe I still have at least the germ of a good idea that hasn't already been implemented here - some publicity to let people know that they're more likely to get fined for chucking rubbish out of their car than they might think, and a national organisation* (maybe just a website) where you can make a simple statement, submit dashcam footage etc. to have it forwarded on to the appropriate local authority for enforcement to help to make it so. 

*(Because half the time while we're driving around we have no idea who that is, and the easier it is for those who don't have Lankyman's admirable determination to see that the ignorant b@stards get a fine, the more likely it is that people will actually do it.)

Chapeau!

Great idea. Signed. 

Personally I'd have snipers positioned near litter hotspots but this would be a start.

I'll sign to show support, but frankly I think it's unworkable.

What I'd like to see is a barcode on every item that identifies the shop where it was bought. If it's found as litter the shop gets fined. You can bet the fast food joints would come up with some pretty good litter reduction strategies off their own back if it started costing them.

Or more likely, no fine was ever issued. 

Really - why? Presumably, if you see something criminal or antisocial going on you won't bother to trouble yourself.

No, I would report it, as I do many times with fly tipping round our way. It's just that I have low confidence that these things are followed through because the resources to do so just aren't there. 

Signed. 

It really is a clever idea.

I wonder if councils could start estimating the amount of litter dropped from each fast food company and just bill them for the cost of cleaning it up. It would mean that councils wouldn't have to limit the amount of cleaning up they do due to budget constraints ( certainly an issue in Scotland) because McDonald's et al would be paying for it.

Signed although I think you'd need a separate one for Scotland.

I don't know if this is correct or still the case but a few years ago a mate if mine captured some very dangerous driving on his dash cam. He spoke to the police who said they would like it but also said they would have to pass his details to the driver because you have a right to know who is accusing you.

Living in a rough part of Bradford he decided not to submit it. 

The obvious problem is people will claim they disposed of their litter correctly but persons unknown removed it from the bin and threw it on the ground just to cause trouble. Impossible to gain a conviction. Better option is windfall tax proportionate to litter removal on all the get fat fast food outlets.

I'd say give them the FPN anyway, and if they think it's unjust as with any FPN they can choose to contest it in court at the risk of an increased fine if they're found guilty anyway. 

If they're bullshitting but think it's worth perjuring themselves in court and risking getting done for perverting the course of justice to dodge a fine well, erm, good luck to them.  (I don't really wish them good luck.)

Maybe that too, but I'd still like to see at least a few of the scrotes leaving the litter being made to put their hands in their pockets to contribute towards the cost of clearing it up.

fast food outlets can already be fined for litter from their establishment £2500, if it can be proved that litter within 100m is theirs, its why mcd's do the litter pick round their outlets,  they don't do it cos they care i'm sure the rest of folk can be fined and get a 100 quid penalty . i've seen crows pull stuff out of bins so you don't even need a person to do it for you to get in trouble. cant remember off top of my head which part of ea 1995 its the Street Litter Notice Controls i'm sure its there as it was covered in my waste management degree stuff, few years back now but it could have been axed in the new environment bill post brexit. ill try find it if you need it.

Maybe the question is do 'drive thro's' really need to exist at all?

Yep. A good proportion of the litter in my street is from the sub-contracted bin men who just abandon anything that falls out of the bins in the road.

Or have the UK cops copy the Turkish ones and upgrade their helicopters a bit.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40122/turkish-cops-now-have-their-own...

It is altogether better to carry with you a plastic bag and pick up litter when you find it. You will probably find that there is less mess in time. Many of us do this in the countryside but somehow find it unacceptable to do that in an urban environment. 

Excellent - so easy to do.

Now we just need DNA sampling of dogs linked to their chip registration so the turds of persistent offenders can be traced.

Double fines for bagged turds, triple for bagged turds in a bush or tree

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Ugh don't...spent a couple hours doing my bit on Sunday picking up rubbish in one of my local walking spots and the amount of dogs**t I retrieved hanging in trees was diabolical. The worst bit is if you aren't careful picking it off these paper thin s**t baggies just rip open. Could smell it through the facemask as well, just thinking about it is turning my stomach...