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ARTICLE: Mystery at the Shelter Stone

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 UKC Articles 21 Apr 2021
The Shelter Stone bivouac. August 2015.

Tony Marr recalls a terrifying encounter with a mysterious presence at the Shelter Stone in 1977...

We have all heard of strange events that defy rational explanation. Well, one such event actually happened to me and two close friends during a bivouac in the Cairngorm Mountains of Scotland in August 1977. Despite this mysterious incident occurring more than four decades ago, the story, until now, has only been shared with family and close friends. However, over the last few years I have been encouraged to record and share my story with a larger audience, some of whom may hopefully find it as mystifying and intriguing as I still do.  



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 C Witter 21 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Great story!

It reminds me of two things:

- Sleepily stepping out to take a leak on Rannoch Moor in the middle of the night. As my eyes began to focus, I realised the moor was covered in strange lumps of grass, catching the light of the moon... Just as I began to be alarmed, they suddenly metamorphosed into a large herd of deer

- Making the long and involving descent from Diedros Magicos on the Puig, it began to get dark and we put headlamps on. As we finally began to approach the gully, I suddenly noticed four headtorches pointed back at us. "iHola! Hello!" Silence - but the torch beams remained trained on us. "iBuenas noches!" Still nothing. It was uncanny. I was starting to feel paranoid and irritated. Was it the MRT? Someone playing funny buggers, trying to scare us? I took a few steps further and... the lights suddenly metamorphosed into the eyes of a mother deer and her fawn. The lights we were seeing were actually our own, reflected in their startled gaze. We laughed it off, but it was disquieting to encounter many more reflecting eyes looking back at us along the bottom of the cliff, as we retrieved our sacs.

Perhaps... you were visited by a small herd of deer? I've a feeling they're somehow attracted to cliffs - perhaps in search of odd plants, water or minerals?

Post edited at 15:50
1
In reply to C Witter:

Very much my thoughts, only rational explanation deer.

In reply to UKC Articles:

What a great story Tony! I've always found the Shelterstone spooky enough, without mystery footsteps.

Maybe it was pranksters? https://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/2013/04/scotlands_yeti_-_historic_hoax_e...

 Mick Ward 21 Apr 2021
In reply to C Witter:

'It began to get dark...' lucky you! Despite over 100 years of climbing experience between the two of us, we hadn't finished abbing off Diedros Magicos before darkness set in. (Somehow we'd failed to work out that, if we started three hours late (yup!) it really didn't matter how fast we climbed.) Anyway, in our case, the rather lovely lights were from the eyes of goats, it was a warm night and we were having fun.

But back to Tony's great article. Who knows the cause? A while back, there was a discussion of such events on Jim Perrin's Facebook page. A guy (sorry, can't remember who) was writing a book about 'Mountain Panic'. It seems that there have been many cases of really spooky, terrifying experiences on British hills, with no obvious cause. Many - but not all - have been in Scotland. Some really hard characters, e.g. ghillies, have run for their lives in abject terror - thus the term, Mountain Panic.

As I recall, on Jim's Facebook page, several people admitted to such experiences.  It would be most interesting if others on UKC replicated this.

Mick

 Mick Ward 21 Apr 2021
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

That's a great story! From memory, the FB tales went wider than Ben Macdhui. But still, it's a great story.

I can remember encountering my one and only Brocken Spectre, near the summit of Slieve Binnian, in the Mournes. I was about 15, on my own. I distinctly remember moving. It also moved. And I thought, "Thank f*ck!"

Mick

 Lankyman 21 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Most of my abject terror on the Scottish hills has come in six-legged flying form. You can run, but you can't hide ...

 Louise O 21 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

I've been climbing and mountaineering for 40 years.  In that time I’ve experienced all weathers been out both in the day and night, seen a Brocken spectre and been surrounded by red deer in the middle of the night whilst out alone doing night photography and only once in all the time has something given me a bad case of the yips!

In the summer of 1986 myself and three friends were on our way to the Hutchinson Memorial hut having climbed Caringorm and had descended into Glen Avon passing close to the Shelterstone crag.  The cloud was low and we descended out of the cloud base with the slopes on either side lost in the mists.   Despite the weather the four of us had been in good spirits, but as we walked along the side of the valley our conversation tailed off.  We began glancing up to the right into the cloud swathed slopes that lead up and up onto the Cairngorm plateau and Ben Macdui.  I remember having the distinct impression that something was up there above us on the slopes hidden in the cloud. Feeling foolish for feeling scared I asked my friends how they felt and to a man they all described an identical feeling we were being observed by something up in the fog laden tundra.  By the time we had passed Loch Etchachan and were descending to the bothy our normal spirits resumed.  The bothy was in use so we camped near it, I remember a reindeer was frequenting the area at the time and having it padding about the tent in the night didn’t bother me in the slightest, but the feeling I had of something lurking up in the mists has stayed with me for over 30 years.

Post edited at 20:55
 Dave the Rave 21 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Nicely written. That should keep some folk away👍

1
 DerwentDiluted 21 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Nice article, reminds me of a near identical experience when 3 of us bivvied on a dry galcier, under a Rognon, up above Zermatt. Almost the exact same sound of foot steps circling us at about 15ft distance. No idea what it was but 2 of us heard it. The hairs on the back of my neck stand up just typing this. Almost certainly a Chamois or ibex, but sounded bipedal. I read somewhere that Mountain Terror might be caused by low frequency sound.

Post edited at 21:28
 crayefish 22 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Hmmm... thought that would be more interesting than it was, though it was well written.  Footsteps in the night... in Scotland.  Try hearing noises at night when you're camping in bear territory!

As for the Big Grey Man, just sounds like it's describing half the population of the highlands 😅

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 DaveHK 22 Apr 2021
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

> I read somewhere that Mountain Terror might be caused by low frequency sound.

That's proposed as an explanation for lots of 'supernatural' experiences.

 C Witter 22 Apr 2021
In reply to Mick Ward:

> 'It began to get dark...' lucky you! Despite over 100 years of climbing experience between the two of us, we hadn't finished abbing off Diedros Magicos before darkness set in. (Somehow we'd failed to work out that, if we started three hours late (yup!) it really didn't matter how fast we climbed.) Anyway, in our case, the rather lovely lights were from the eyes of goats, it was a warm night and we were having fun.

It's a big day out, that's for sure! We also set off an hour or so later than we'd intended, but we carried on to the top of Espolon Central and walked off instead of abbing. The tense moment was making sure we found the descent before it went dark... and then realising we would arrive too late for the Finestrat pizzeria - which was a major blow! It meant everyone was subjected to my cooking for another night... (talking of mountain terrors!) But, you can't feel anything but joy in a place as beautiful as the Puig.
 

 Doug 22 Apr 2021
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

I remember sheltering from the rain above Arolla & hearing some very odd noises seemingly coming out of the rocks & a little worrying in the mist. A little later we came across a vent which was making the same noises, we later found out it was part of a hydro scheme. Maybe a similar explanation above Zermatt ?

 Dave Garnett 22 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

I've also experienced lying in wide wake in a tent at night while massive stealthy footsteps approached, stopped, came really close, stopped and then slowly receded.

But then I was in Namibia and in the morning the tent was circled by elephant footprints.

 Ian Parsons 22 Apr 2021
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Did your diet at the time include buns?

 Ian Parsons 22 Apr 2021
In reply to crayefish:

>Try hearing noises at night when you're camping in bear territory!

I think the point is that in bear territory you'll know that it's probably .... a bear. Exciting and possibly threatening, maybe - but not unexpected. In Scotland there isn't supposed to be anything that big - and the nearest contenders tend to go 'clippety-clop' on rocky ground!

 fmck 22 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

One year in October the forecast was superb. I decided to do a summit camp on Craiglee in the Galloway hills. While driving there it came over the car radio that the Galloway forest was going to be made a dark sky park. Excellent I thought this should be a good clear night and Craiglee was very central.

Once camped next to the trig point and camera set up I enjoyed the amazing clear night. I watched the odd shooting star and flights coming up from the South before turning NW over the Atlantic. It was such a still night that I took a picture of a lit tee light candle on the trig point! Now the odd satellite would pass over and I was really enjoying the display when another Satellite was  approaching in the direction of the hill. Suddenly I realized there were 3 in a triangle pattern. No sound like distant rumble of a high altitude plane. In fact I had no idea of its altitude. I was now  beginning to get SH*T scared as I had no idea what this was and it was approaching. As stupid as it might sound I knocked out all the lights and sat in the doorway of the tent. It then made a big curve in the direction ENE and disappeared. No idea what it was. I thought maybe formation military planes but no noise whatever! Satellites ? but they wont change direction like that.   

 Dave Hewitt 22 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

In the early days of The Angry Corrie almost 30 years ago there was a piece by a researcher named Andy Roberts who had done some interesting analysis of the various Macdui/Grey Man stories. He wasn't debunking them, but he did point out that it was quite a collection of all-sorts - people hearing things, semi-seeing things, feeling uneasy etc - with no coherent theme apart from the location, and even that was quite spread out given that Macdui is a big hill. The stories in the main account here and also from Louise in the comments are certainly interesting, anyway.

I've been on Macdui quite a few times over the years (less so recently) and have never seen/heard anything or felt uneasy, despite once camping in cloud on the Carn a' Mhaim col.

TAC also covered the "sudden unease" side of things on hills generally - that seems to be quite a widespread phenomenon. There are theories that certain types of land form, angle of slope etc, lend themselves to such things, particularly in certain weather/light conditions.

 Lankyman 22 Apr 2021
In reply to fmck:

You may have been seeing a stealth fighter or bomber? Something like an F-117 Nighthawk. They've probably accounted for most of the UFO sightings around Area 51.

 Dave Hewitt 22 Apr 2021
In reply to fmck:

My better half is from Coniston and around a decade ago we were there visiting her mother in a spell of cold/clear weather when aurora sightings were possible - we'd signed up to the Lancaster Uni alert system and this was making encouraging noises. So mid-evening, after dark, the three of us walked up the fell gate road to the first of the sharp bends, from where there was a good view north. We'd been there a minute or two when a strange light, green from memory, appeared along towards Yewdale, below the level we were at and moving steadily towards us. There were then a couple of other lights seen, also heading our way. There was no noise at all and it was very puzzling - until after another minute or so there was a faint engine sound and we realised that the lights came from planes - it was a line of three Herculeses (Herculii?) on some kind of low-level night-flying exercise along the valley, and with the breeze not coming from that direction we couldn't hear them until they were pretty close.

It was a relief to realise what they were - probably because we'd been on the lookout for aurora, and what we were seeing didn't at all fit, it had felt a bit spooky for that minute or so before we suddenly twigged. And even once we knew it was planes, to see them pass steadily below us like that in the dark was rather eerie and beautiful.

 Rick Graham 22 Apr 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Usually fly past on a wednesday.

IIRC when I lived in Coniston .

 Dave Hewitt 22 Apr 2021
In reply to Rick Graham:

> Usually fly past on a wednesday.

> IIRC when I lived in Coniston .

I can't remember which particular trip it was - there were loads - but most were Thursday-Sunday so this instance was probably one of Thurs/Fri/Sat - although it could have been a Wed had we changed routine for some reason. The better half's mum, sadly no longer around, knew of local night-flying (possibly because she was in the mountain rescue team), but I don't think she'd seen a line of three of them so low over the village after dark like that before.

Incidentally, another friend in Coniston MRT tells of having been up the Old Man at night on a rescue and seeing puzzling lights far to the west - and eventually realising it was motorbikes on the Isle of Man practicing for the TT races.

 Mark Bull 22 Apr 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

The Hercules use a system called SKE (station keeping equipment) to automatically fly in formation. 

 Toccata 23 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

I’ve spent hundreds of nights alone in tents, bothies and howffs in the Highlands and have no experience of uneasiness (invariably quite the opposite). However footsteps are not uncommon and are usually the slow, careful stepping of deer in the dark. One slip could break a leg so they are very slow at moving in the dark.

Jock Nimlin, as a 17 year old, wrote a wonderful diary entry when camping alone on Goat Fell. He described dark-induced fear as an evolved safety response to keep us from wandering out. Amazingly perceptive for the time it was written.

 fmck 23 Apr 2021
In reply to Mark Bull:

It certainly wasn't 3 Hercules. I've heard them plenty of times. A couple of facts. that night was so still I took a picture of a tee light candle on the trig point. A rare situation for such a still moment on a summit. Passing high altitude aircraft passing over before turning out over the Atlantic were quite a presence unusually due to the stillness of the night.

This three light triangle formation made absolutely not a single decibel of sound. 

It was almost overhead before turning. Certain it was now over the Galloway forest. I couldn't judge altitude but it appeared similar to satellites crossing the sky. I wouldn't think this was a single vehicle because given the spacing and assuming its very high would make it huge.

It has made me wonder for a number of years and I do believe there was a explanation for it other than little green men visiting us. But there are a number of factors that cant seem to add up. 

 fmck 23 Apr 2021
In reply to Toccata:

I remember having this fear of what people used to call "benightment" Weird how people used to just stop and wait for day light. 

1
 JM 23 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Great story, which brought back a memory of sleeping under the shelter stone. However, I can only relate to the change in weather part, having had no encounter with the Big Grey Man, only the big ginger one snoring next to me! We arrived in the afternoon on a mild July afternoon and set off up Steeple. However, we were very slow on the first 2 pitches and had to ab off. Sleeping under the Shelter Stone there were no signs of the weather change that was occurring over night apart from the sound of the wind. In the morning we emerged to snow and hoar frost covering everything and made a hasty retreat back to the car! 

 kwoods 23 Apr 2021
In reply to fmck:

> I remember having this fear of what people used to call "benightment" Weird how people used to just stop and wait for day light. 

Ha, yeah I thought that too. Why on earth would you just stop? The other one is being just under the top of a winter route (or rock...!?) and abbing off because it just got dark.

I've persistently found over hundreds of nights in the hills there's that deep seated gnawing at sunset that I've never been able to fully get rid of. Sometimes it doesn't appear at all but even recently I've really noticed it. Like a deep down fear of the night. Then, once darkness actually arrives I always find it a really relaxing time and enjoy being on the hills after dark. 

 Dave Hewitt 23 Apr 2021
In reply to kwoods:

> I've persistently found over hundreds of nights in the hills there's that deep seated gnawing at sunset that I've never been able to fully get rid of. Sometimes it doesn't appear at all but even recently I've really noticed it. Like a deep down fear of the night. Then, once darkness actually arrives I always find it a really relaxing time and enjoy being on the hills after dark. 

It might be partly to do with the senses other than sight becoming heightened after dark because sight doesn't work so well. I wonder if there are also deep-rooted sociological-type reasons for feeling anxious after (or at least at) nightfall, an awareness that if something were to go wrong - injury, illness etc - then it would have more serious consequences than in daylight. That in turn probably makes things less likely to go wrong, in terms of injury/mishap at least, as one concentrates more on the small details. In that respect it's perhaps similar to the winter vs summer thing - people who don't climb hills in winter tend to assume it's more dangerous than in summer, but it's arguably less so because of increased care being taken. Another example is solo vs accompanied - again there's a heightened level of concentration when alone, eg in terms of navigation, that is often absent when wandering along chatting with a chum.

Certainly like you I often have a strange sense of general worry during the actual nightfall period on a hill, but then "settle into it" and become more at ease once darkness has properly descended.

 fmck 23 Apr 2021
In reply to kwoods:

> Ha, yeah I thought that too. Why on earth would you just stop? The other one is being just under the top of a winter route (or rock...!?) and abbing off because it just got dark.

Got to laugh at that one. I had a mate who was telling me they got benighted on "Tower ridge" They actually got to the bottom of tower gap when they thought they were trapped by night fall. They abbed down to the terrace below opposite side from Glovers. Hacked a ledge and spent the night shaking with cold until sunrise. I asked why did you not just walk into Tower gully and escape. He replied "We did in the morning when I realised we could do that!

In reply to fmck:

> I remember having this fear of what people used to call "benightment" Weird how people used to just stop and wait for day light. 

Not so weird when you consider any sort of injury could mean death to our distant ancestors.

 Ridge 23 Apr 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> Not so weird when you consider any sort of injury could mean death to our distant ancestors.

That and the lack of LED headtorches pumping out several hundred lumens.

 willie todd 23 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Excellent and very spooky story Tony. My dad told me about the "Old grey man of Ben Macdui" when I was a kid so I've always been fascinated by similar tales. Your story reminded me of similar ones about the Tarf Hotel / Feith Uaine bothy which like all howffs and bothies can be a lonely and creepy place to spend the night by yourself.

 Lankyman 23 Apr 2021
In reply to willie todd:

When I was a kid, getting into camping for the first time, I used to think a sheep coughing at night sounded like someone having their throat cut. Not that I ever heard the real thing. Or did I ...... ?

 jkarran 23 Apr 2021
In reply to fmck:

> This three light triangle formation made absolutely not a single decibel of sound. 

Aircraft descending are often inaudible especially with a breeze on your back, even really quite close. Aircraft moving very fast up high can be a long way away from where in the sky your ears perceive them to be them. At 60k ft and high trans-sonic speed they're 10 miles from where they were by the time you hear them.

jk

 Michael Gordon 23 Apr 2021
In reply to kwoods:

> The other one is being just under the top of a winter route (or rock...!?) and abbing off because it just got dark.> 

Depends how hard the bit above you is.

 SFM 25 Apr 2021
In reply to fmck:

> This three light triangle formation made absolutely not a single decibel of sound. >

This comment triggered a memory of a conversation I once had. Basically he was someone who loved roaming. He was on the dole for a while so used it as an opportunity to wander about the West Coast of Scotland(mostly Argyll) and doss/camp on beaches. He once described seeing something similar that he couldn’t explain. He concluded that it must have been something military being tested and probably from RAF Machrihanish given his location. 

 CantClimbTom 25 Apr 2021
In reply to fmck:

> I remember having this fear of what people used to call "benightment" Weird how people used to just stop and wait for day light. 

Before the Petzl zoom (1981), head torches were terrible. Even with the zoom they burnt batteries fast and were a bit big/heavy so people might not pack one if they were confident wouldn't need. Small light led torches are a recent game-changer.

Still, rock climbing at night and mountain navigation in the dark needs *practice*. And not everyone does. In some cases people may still be at less risk getting a very uncomfortable night's kip. It gives you some good stories

 wercat 26 Apr 2021
In reply to kwoods:

I'm quite happy in the dark as long as there is starlight or moonlight.  When it's so dark I have to use a headtorch is when I don't like it.  It's a beacon shouting out "He's just HERE!" and I can't see what lurking is outside the beam.... 

Once it's off I'm on the same terms as everything else, except for people with thermal cameras or image intensifiers

must be a primitive instinct.  I always keep my torch off if I possibly can so I might be out there, just outside your beam ...  I prefer to move quietly,  and see rather than be seen...

Post edited at 22:18
2
 Ridge 27 Apr 2021
In reply to wercat:

> I'm quite happy in the dark as long as there is starlight or moonlight.  When it's so dark I have to use a headtorch is when I don't like it.  It's a beacon shouting out "He's just HERE!" and I can't see what lurking is outside the beam.... 

> Once it's off I'm on the same terms as everything else, except for people with thermal cameras or image intensifiers

> must be a primitive instinct.  I always keep my torch off if I possibly can so I might be out there, just outside your beam ...  I prefer to move quietly,  and see rather than be seen...

Not just me who's the weirdo creeping about in the dark, crouching to see things silhouetted against the skyline..

 wercat 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Ridge:

I get the same feeling in films when I see someone in a dark warehouse with a torch and there's a nutter somewhere - for god's sake switch off the torch!

Darkness is under appreciated, particularly if you like the night sky!

I take it the dislike is someone who is less happy in the dark - I was like that until I was about 15 then after a family argument I was so annoyed I bloody mindedly went round a wooded walk in a dene off Crawleyside in Stanhope without a torch - it scared me half to death for the first 15 minutes in the woods then I got to love it - just like getting over a terror of heights

Post edited at 08:49
 Michael Hood 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Ridge:

> Not just me who's the weirdo creeping about in the dark, crouching to see things silhouetted against the skyline...

Very appropriate for your username - I'm hoping that was deliberate rather than coincidental.

I'm also hoping that wercat's similarly appropriate previous post "I prefer to move quietly,  and see rather than be seen" is a deliberate pun on their username.

 wercat 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Michael Hood:

not only a pun, I really do like to be inconspicuous and out of the limelight - it's just my nature - "retiring" would have been the old word for it.  It was a trait noticed by all of my teachers from primary school onwards.

perhaps the explanation in the OP is not deer but just some people moving about their business in the dark?

Post edited at 09:33
 Michael Hood 27 Apr 2021
In reply to wercat:

As I'm sure you realise, there's usually a lot more light around in the "dark" than you think, especially once your eyes have got used to it.

Many, many years ago, I went up Masada in Israel with my wife. It's "traditional" to walk up it in time for the dawn & sunrise - simply because it's pretty spectacular overlooking the Dead Sea, etc.

Anyway, we set off whilst it's still dark and I persuade the Mrs that it's actually easier if we switch torches off and allow our eyes to become accustomed to the dark. After a bit, she can see what I mean and we're following the path quite happily upwards (this was before the "up" word became hateful in her eyes 😁 ) in the dark - not totally pitch black but no street lights etc, pretty much just starlight and the merest hint of the approaching day.

Unfortunately, below us were a large group of noisy Americans, happily shining their torches about all over the places but still having difficulty following the zig-zag path. Luckily, we managed to stay well ahead of them the whole way up just using our eyes; I don't think they even knew we were not that far above them.

Post edited at 13:03
 wercat 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Michael Hood:

yes, what you describe is one of the pleasures of life , and a lot less disconcerting than if you've been depending on a torch and it fails.  It's an essential life skill, like being comfortable in water or map reading.

 Lankyman 27 Apr 2021
In reply to wercat:

You've probably been in the caves up Shittlehope Burn (love that name)? I took a look around last year and enjoyed being underground alone if only briefly. In my youth I'd often solo cave and my senses would always be heightened to the point of imagining voices. It's very noticeable how running water can sound like a conversation where you can't quite catch the words. I was on a trip into the far reaches of Mossdale Caverns, scene of the infamous tragedy in 1967. We'd been in the cavern where the six victims are buried and turned back on the long trip out. At some point I realised I'd left my little kit bag somewhere and had to head back to look for it. Unlike other times I was not at all comfortable being alone. The cave felt threatening and sinister which, as it can flood to the roof, it is anyway. I was really glad to catch my mates up again and get the hell out pronto. One of my companions that day really took a shine to Mossdale and made a few solo trips. My imagination wouldn't make me comfortable doing that!

Clauso 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

Pete Livesey - I assume that it's he of Footless Crow etc.? - is mentioned as being one of the first to repeat the descent into Mossdale Caverns:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/what-lies-beneath-mossda...

 Lankyman 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Clauso:

> Pete Livesey - I assume that it's he of Footless Crow etc.? - is mentioned as being one of the first to repeat the descent into Mossdale Caverns

Yes, Livesey namedMossdale Trip (E6 6a) after that incident. 'Descent' isn't really the right word for Mossdale since there aren't any vertical pitches, just lots and lots of crawling down gently sloping triangular passages. That's how the guys came unstuck, being there when a massive summer storm broke on the moor. One of my caving friends missed the fatal trip over an argument. He was on the rescue attempt when they found the bodies and decided it was too dangerous to try and get them out. A few years later they were moved further into the cave and buried in a chamber.

Post edited at 15:16
 Hutson 27 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Interesting to read others' views on sunset/the dark. I'm going to admit to being afraid of the dark. I blame it on being born and brought up in a big city where there are always street lights. When walking home alone in the dark in town it's not the actual dark I'm afraid of, it's being mugged or worse on quieter streets, but I am really creeped out by proper dark in countryside. If we've an unlit walk back to a campsite from the pub in the dark I will often try to finish up while there's a bit of light left.

The worst thing is all the advice is about identifying exactly what it is you're afraid of and the problem is, I just can't. Woods are the creepiest. The fear feels primal. 

I would like to get over this because I know it's not rational. Last week I wanted to try to spot some Lyrid meteors and me and a couple of others bivvied at a very basic site in the countryside to watch them. We were the only ones there (midweek) which was brilliant but also a bit weird (the loos were in the little woods). Out in the field I was ok because the moon was so bright and we'd kept our headtorches off to see the stars better. It didn't really get dark all night. Even so I barely slept (first time in a bivvy didn't help this) and every so often I would peer through the mesh at the moonlit field and think 'imagine if you saw *something*'. I don't think I could have done it on my own.

Obviously articles like this really don't help me but I still can't help but read them...

 wercat 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Hutson:

I don;t know whether it is different if you grew up in the Pennines with some woods just over the road and the sound of wild animals screaming in the night?

I used to get freaked out by things moving in the undergrowth in woods in the daylight until I realised it was quite often just blackbirds which are one of my favourite creatures.

 JimR 27 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

I'm usually comfortable in the dark, I used to run solo at night in the countryside and never had any scares. I carried a headtorch but usually the ambient light from the moon or stars was generally sufficient unless going through wooded areas. Hear lots of wildlife and saw a large cat puma/panther once which ran away. However I've had several spooky experiences, once walking down a country  path with 3 mates to the pub (path we'd known for years, played there as kids, walked to and from school along it, ran along it etc etc ) suddenly all 4 of us took to our heels without a word and ran as if the very devil was chasing us .. after we got across a bridge we stopped and we all had felt a feeling of utter evil at the same time and none of us could explain anything more than that. Another place was a house my daughter rented in Ireland where everyone was terrified of a particular room and the landing outside, not just us but other visitors would broach the subject is a roundabout fashion. Daughter moved as soon as she could .. and there were quite a few other spooky things that happened there. So I'm keeping an open mind although nae doot there's a logical explanation for most apparently supernatural events.

 Dave Hewitt 27 Apr 2021
In reply to JimR:

> I've had several spooky experiences, once walking down a country  path with 3 mates to the pub (path we'd known for years, played there as kids, walked to and from school along it, ran along it etc etc ) suddenly all 4 of us took to our heels without a word and ran as if the very devil was chasing us

That kind of collective spooking seems to happen a fair bit. I've not experienced it myself, but I've heard a few stories and I know someone - used to being on the hill and local to the area - who was out on a search with colleagues in the Lakes when they all suddenly got freaked by something and scarpered en masse. I suppose it could be that there's a kind of heightened awareness thing going on and one person acts as a trigger for the others, but it's a strange business whatever it is.

 Welsh Kate 27 Apr 2021
In reply to UKC Articles:

Kind of glad I didn't know about this before I camped near the Shelter Stone a few years ago!

Camping solo in the Brecon Beacons during the Eyjafjallajökull no-fly period, I was woken some time in the early hours by something moving around outside my tent. It clearly wasn't human and didn't sound like sheep either. Pretty scared, I stuck my head inside the sleeping bag and went back to sleep. At dawn I stuck my head out to watch the sun rising over Pen y Fan and Corn Du to find a herd of wild ponies grazing near my tent. They certainly didn't sound like ponies in the dead of night to a solo camper!


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