UKC

Hi. I am sure this has been asked before so apologies in advance but what is the best thing to use for lubricating carabiners and friends etc. Wd40, gt85 or something else. Cheers 

Cam lube. This stuff is brill. Only need a tiny bit. 

https://www.dicksclimbing.com/products/metolius-cam-lube?variant=3205474490...

I've used dry chain lube on cams in the past with great success, and suspect it's be equally appropriate for krabs.

I use gt85, excellent stuff.

I use something like GT85 personally, although there are specific products available. It's worth giving them a good clean first.

I don't generally lubricate carabiners except when they've been cleaned after a dunking in seawater.  Then a tiny spray of GT85, wiping off the excess.  Ditto cams.

WD40 is not actually a lubricant it was designed to repel/disperse water (back when cars had spark plugs on front or side of engine going back to a distributor cap). After a long while WD40 will dry and dust or grit if still in there will clag up. I revived some grinding gate twist lock krabs many years ago and at first it was brilliant but a month later they were worse than before. Avoid WD40 for this job.

Instead, clean with boiling water, fully dry out over several days then lubricate with GT85 which is an oil lubricant (with PTFE too)

Good call. I think it might be on DMM's knowledge website not to use WD40 as a lubricant.

Just because WD stands for Water Displacement it does not mean that WD40 is not a lubricant.  Details of its lubrication properties can be found on WD40 product sheets as well as the effects on various materials of a prolonged soak in the stuff .

Water itself is a lubricant, of course, but not a very good one; but this is a point which will not be lost on you if you try, say, Hairless Heart on a wet day.

If you're curious, spray some GT85 and WD40 onto a hard, non-porous surface and see what's left after a week.  It's also interesting to do the same with dry, 'damp' and wet lube as well as 3in1 and penetrating oil.

WD40 is safe around climbing gear, its been tested and it does lubricate although it can attract dirt. WC used to recommend it to lube their cams. Whilst finish line dry is some what of a less known quantity if it does come in to contact with textiles before the solvent has dried off, I do think it works better and attracts less dirt.

I dislike the Metolius cam lube I find the wax gunks everything up.

Seems it was used to protect the skin of Atlas missiles from corrosion and yes, it stands for Water Displacement 40th formula.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

I note that it is advised that WD40 shouldn't be used on locks because it not only displaces water but also displaces lubricants and as you say the WD40 itself will disappear over time leaving you worse off than when you started.

https://www.vehicle-accessories.net/about-us/why-shouldnt-you-use-wd-40-in-...

The above web page recommends a PTFE lubricant which I guess is a sensible choce.

That's odd as I found the complete opposite. If you only use a little drop, work it in and wipe off excess with kitchen roll I find there's no gunk at all and cams stay smooth for good length of time after. 

horses for courses. i also dislike the wax stuff on bicycle chains for the same reasons. Perhaps I was using too much? I don't get on with it in anycase!

This used to be on WC website 

"Stuck Cams - Most sticking and Friend not working can be solved by the use of WD40 - this is a fantastic material as it works to free up stuck cams but will not damage Nylon or Dyneema on the slings.
Note: It is essential maintenance to give your units a 'once-over' with WD40 every 6 months or so even if it seem they do not need it. This will dislodge grit and dirt and help prolong the life of the unit."

I found it also works on biners, anything really. Although its not my first choice of lubricant either. I definitely can believe on somethings that's greased it could remove it and only leave a small amount of lube.

From WD40's website 

"A QUESTION OF LUBRICATION

Myth: WD-40® Multi-Use Product is not really a lubricant.

Fact: While the “W-D” in WD-40® stands for Water Displacement, WD-40® Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal."

I use WD40 on my ice screws to over summer them. There is always some left on them at the start of next winter. It doesn't completely dry out.

I'd never heard of GT -85 before this thread.

Chemically,  what's the difference between, say, WD-40 and GT-85? Why is one favoured over the other for cams? And why, for example, wouldn't a silicone lubricant be better than either in this context?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here; rather, trying to arrive at facts rather than anecdotes.

Edit: and for that matter, what is 'Metolius Cam Lube' chemically composed of?

I’d be astonished if that ‘cam lube’ isn’t Finish Line Teflon lube (with a different sticker and a couple of quid added to the price) https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/maintenance/lubes-cleaners/finish-line-te...

Try and track down XPL from Pro One. https://www.pro1industrial.com/xpl-101-penetrant-spray

Amazing stuff unlike any CLP I've experienced, especially for moisture displacement and protecting from future gunking up. There's some cool demos on youtube. Cams, biners etc are pretty low spec so you'll get away with most things (strawberry mango flavoured included).

WD40 is a solvent, that acts as a lubricant secondarily, but there are much better things available.

Ita not the standard finish line dry as that doesn’t have wax added.

I favour GT85 as it's my all purpose light bike lube so it's what lives in the shed, has some PTFE lubricant in it, it works well and is cheap as chips- especially on line.  Also lubes hair clippers 😀

Many of these products will do the job. But it's also worth thinking about would has least environmental impact. Ordinary oil at least has no unnecessary propellent. And GT 85 is great until we get the PTFE bit. PTFE based DWR was already a big environmental mistake. Having it in lube is unnecessary and harmful, https://theecologist.org/2009/may/13/behind-label-chain-lube 

WD40 is the dogs nuts for ice screws, snargs etc and only bettered by vaseline 

Good call. The XPL conforms to that, no PTFE or Chlorines, claims to be non-toxic and environmentally friendly (however they define that). They even claim vegetable based. It's been used in industry's where it's used by the gallon, sprayed on etc and has to meet that criteria for handling.

There's a DMM video on carabiner maintenance here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QP0z5rb8js&t=9s

They recommend 'Duck Oil'...

Get them clean in hot soapy water, get them moving, WD40, wipe clean. Adding graphite lock lube helps long run but is overkill. Pretty much any other light oil will also work. All oils dry out over time, no big deal. I've used grotty old engine oil offthe dipstick in a pinch to save a trip from neglected cams.

Jk

Used to use GT-85 on bike chains, until chap in LBS told me to stop using it on chains, as it washes out too much of the other lubricants - usually use the Muc Off lubes now.

Also used it on cams and crabs, but use the WD-40 silicone spray for most things at the moment - https://wd40.co.uk/product/high-performance-silicone-lubricant/

I've also used the Muc Off dry chain lube on cams, too, which works well.

I always take the items off the tape or hang and spray so any excess runs away from the tape. Wipe them down and let dry and then put back on the tape.

Interesting article. I've worked in the lubrication industry for a lubricant manufacturer for 25 years and there is definately an ongoing drive to remove environmentally damaging and harmful products from lubricants. When I started out cutting oils still had Phenols in.... the latest things to go are Formaldehyde release biocides in cutting oils and Sulphated Ash, Phosphate and Sulphur from engine oils. Vegetable derived base stocks, and biodegradeable synthetics are also much more prevelant.  Given that ~25% of the worlds energy (according to Castrol) is lost to friction, optimised lubrication is pretty environmentally critical.

As for my Cams, Krabs and Bike chain?  meh, I just spit on 'em.

3 in 1

I read that some manufacturers were wanting to remove the teflon from lubes as it added very little advantage, but had environmental consequences. However it was hard because of market expectations.

Our local bike shop (and Mrs D) swear by GT85.

Removal of teflon/PTFE must be to meet a green target because (in the right use cases) the stuff works well. You can get window lubricant which is not much more than PTFE in a volatile base. You wind down car windows and spray some in the track/groove the windows go up and down in. After it has dried you wind windows back up and they run so much more smoothly, so PTFE definitely works for lubricating. But it is **** for carabineers though (I tried it and it's a fail)

There are a lot of examples of brilliantly performing substances being removed for environmental reasons, 111 Trichloroethane being a perfect example, ubiquitous in industry as a solvent, banned under the Montreal Protocol as an Ozone depleting substance. 

Lubricating a Krab, or cam,  is really straightforward as lubrication problems go. Temperatures are ambient, RPM is zero, Movement under load is ~ zero. Use is intermittent and minimal. Movement of any one Krab gate might only be a few seconds each month. But. Water exposure is high, ingress of solid contaminant is likely and damaging, failure to function is undesireable. So, the secondary function of a lubricant becomes more significant - corrosion protection. Here, lubricant selection becomes less critical but cleaning and frequency of lubrication becomes more so. In a nutshell, if you use your rack weekly and lubricate annually think hard on your choice of lubricant, actually, no dont bother, it'll fail.  If you use weekly and clean and lubricate weekly, a quick squirt of WD40 - GT85- whatever will be fine. 

^^this.  I've just had a google for 'best lubricant for aluminium' and apparently it's lithium grease. WD40 do a spray version, has anyone tried it?