UKC

'morning all,

I'm about to buy a new sleeping bag; after days reading online reviews, including on UKC, I've got to decide. I need something I haven't thought of to tip the balance one way or another regarding these three.

Mountain Hardwear Lamina 0

Marmot Trestles 15

Kelty Cosmic 20

My intended (most extreme) use is bivvying summer alpine (planned, rather than emergency) and Scottish winter camping. I trimmed my list considering performance, weight, use when damp, bulk, roominess and of course, price.

I'll be sleeping on an Exped Flexmat Plus and either under the stars, in a Snugpak hooped bivy bag or in a tent.

The bags are broadly similar in weight and temperature performance, less so in roominess.

I'd like to hear opinions from actual users of these bags in similar conditions: can anyone help?

Wishing you all a great weekend.

j

In reply to MisterPiggy:

I have the Lamina 0 but the older version that looks like this: https://bestsleepingbagz.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/mountain-hardwear-lamina-....

I can't say anything compared to the others on the list but it is massive. I can't imagine carrying it in anything other than a car. I have also been cold in it in the UK, so I think it's 'comfort' rating of -18°C is dubious.   

In reply to MisterPiggy:

I'm afraid I have no experience of these particular bags ( so feel to ignore what I say ) but I have done lots of bivvying in the European Alps at a whole range of altitudes and temperatures. Looking at the statistics for those bags I would suggest they are all very heavy and bulky for alpine bivvy use unless your bivvy is a very short distance from a cable car. ( Of course, I could just be weak and feeble! ) The bags I use for summer alpine are down and weigh approximately a third of the weight of any of those bags. 

I can't really comment on Scottish winter camping apart from suggesting they would be great for valley / close to car camping but too heavy and bulky for carrying far IMHO.

Hopefully some more people who have used these bags will come along and add their wisdom...

    

    

In reply to MisterPiggy:

Most comfort ratings are misleading.

In reply to MisterPiggy:  I'd comment that the bag you want for summer alpine bivvying  (down 2 season) is a lot lighter than what you'll need to Scottish winter camping (whatever fill 4 season).

In reply to MisterPiggy:

I would think you would be steaming in the lamina 0 for summer alpine plus it's about half the volume of a 45L pack ? Way too big for carrying any distance, certainly for me 

Ideal for Scottish winter or just cold damp British winter conditions full stop 

A high quality down bag would be better for the summer alpine I would think, 400g of down fill will get you an 800g ISH total weight with a great pack size and good down to about -2 in my experience, tho I do sleep reasonably warm

In reply to MisterPiggy:

I have no experience of the bags you mention but I can wholeheartedly recommend Phd bags for quality, warmth, compact stored size, and lightness. They offer a bespoke service when you order to fit the dimensions/roominess you require, as well as a choice of zip length and side etc.

https://www.phdesigns.co.uk/sleeping-bags

They may seem expensive when compared with other bags, but are well worth the extra. 

In reply to Root1:

Can you expand on how and why you think that is?

In reply to MisterPiggy:

Warm thanks to everyone who posted an opinion - all valued.

I've managed to source a second hand, light, warm down sack for alpine use. (An elderly Valandre)

For UK use, I'm plumping for the Kelty. Many moons ago I camped often in -15°c in the Cairngorms using a synthetic Vango bag with a silk liner and Meraklon long johns; the Kelty is lighter and warmer, so I reckon I'll be fine.

I've still got the Karrimor 70l bag I used back then - though these days, I don't stuff it to the gills.

Again, thanks for the opinions,

j 😀

In reply to MisterPiggy:

I haven't got any of these bags, but I feel compelled to comment. IMHO you are better off buying a bag that's not as warm and bulky that you think you might need. Then take some merino long johns and balaclava, plus some dry socks to wear in your bag. Minimal extra weight and will probably keep you warm enough.

In reply to TobyA:

Manufacturers want to sell bags so there is competition to say their bags are warmest as a result there is pressure to quote unrealistic figures.. 

Western Mountaineerings figures are probably the most realistic. Their Puma is bag is quoted at -23c. A PHD bag with virtually identical specs quotes at -40c so somebody's wrong! That's just one example.

In reply to Root1:

It depends if the stated values are to EN13537/ISO 23537 or not. If they are to EN13537/ ISO 23537, they are directly comparable, even if the testing methodology is slightly flawed in some brands opinion*, so you won't get a massive difference.

If it's the brands making up numbers then it IS all guesswork, especially at the low temps stated as the standard is pretty poor at low temps and doesn't cover below -24 degC. However, WM's stated ratings are higher than the EN standard ratings, which is interesting as they are effectively underselling their product. The EN ratings are found in their FAQ section.

*Hence ME have a "Good Night's Sleep" rating that accounts for where they believe the test falls down (probably most nitably in face fabrics/wind speed). All well explained here: https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/blogs/product-development/temperature-...

In reply to Root1:

Interesting that your examples are a US company (not sure if you can even buy them in the UK?) so I don't know what rating system they use, and then the one European manufacturer of high quality brands that I can think of that DON'T use ISO 23537 (what used to be known as  EN 13537). I'm yet to review a bag rated that way that doesn't pretty well work to the comfort limit (for me) - whether that's superlight 0 rated bags or winter bags rated to -8 or -12. The only place it doesn't seem to work is below about -20 due to the mannequin design I think. The one bag I've reviewed for that sort of temperatures was (as Mountain Equipment believed from their own testing) actually warmer than the EN 13537 rating: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/camping/sleeping_bags/mountain_equipment_sn...

PHD has very hardcore devotee fans, but it's a shame they don't test with ISO 23537 as it makes it very hard to compare their bags with those made by other firms. When they say "-40" I'm not totally clear what that means.