UKC

Happily already had a few outings designing interesting walks round bagging a few Ethels.  Had a lovely frosty sunny start this morning, and two things of note

• First Ethel not on a right of way and not on Open Access land: Durham Edge (Abney Moor) (http://streetmap.co.uk/map?X=418070&Y=379421&A=Y&Z=115); the Ethels app says: "There is NO ACCESS to the actual summit and its trig pillar, which are on private land".  Why on earth would you put something onto a list that isn't publicly accessible.  Haven't people learnt with Outlying Wainwright High Knott/Williamson's Monument?
• First Ethel you could pretty much drive a car up to: Sir William Hill (Eyam Moor) (http://streetmap.co.uk/map?X=421600&Y=377923&A=Y&Z=115)

Map of Ethels here (if you're intestered): http://pnfs.org.uk/ethels

I had no idea what Ethels were before this thread or even that such a thing existed and having now googled it I'm still not sure what the criteria are for inclusion in the list.

However, what I can say is that not being on a right of way or on access land doesn't stop you climbing them.

Fences may make it more difficult and angry people shouting at you, even pointing a shotgun at you, might temporarily put you off but where there's a will there's a way. Even if you have to watch for unexploded ordnance

Could be that the whole point of Ethels is about access.

Done 37/95 with more planned for later this week.

I hadn't heard of them, but a quick search gives the criteria:

"Peak District Ethels list has 95 hills, tors, edges and trigs. It includes every hill over 400 m in the Peak District."

So Abney Moor seems to obviously fit the bill. Looking at the map (https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/SK1879) it seems 100m or so from the access land. A 'sporting' tresspass I would say. But there's a long tradition of hill lists including tops with no legal access. Plenty of the Pedwars (400 m tops) in Wales must fit the bill, and lots of county tops too. I've tresspassed to the tops of Wiltshire (a ploughed field), Hampshire (ditto) and Berkshire (sheep field) multiple times. Sometimes there's a lack of legal access but the land owner doesn't seem to care if you're responsible. If that's not the case, pick a misty day or go at night!

Ethel Haythornthwaite, after whom the list is named, was a campaigner for more access, so maybe the CPRE see them as part of a continuing push for that?

That said, it's an odd list. It claims to include all the summits over 400m, but misses out at least eight 400m tops with over 30m of drop, some of them nice hills. It misses out some very prominent hills like Grafton and Narrowdale Hills near Dovedale, the Castleton Back Tor, or Alderman's Rocks in the Chew. It includes a few odd things like Merryton Low (trig point virtually next to the road); Harthill Moor (trig point in field with lots of stone walls to climb) instead of the nearby Anthony Hill (higher, much more pointed and reached through scrubby woodland so no access problem); and Sough Top (in a ploughed field) instead of nearby Chelmorton Low (open access).

As Iain says, it's an odd list. As well as the 400m and above aspect there are also plenty of lower hills - if I've added up correctly there are 27 sub-400m hills in the Wiki version of the list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ethels

including two sub-300m. As someone who was brought up on the southeastern edge of the area, within walking distance of Crich Stand (which I never heard called Crich Beacon as the Hill Bagging database now has it), I'm puzzled as to why both it and Alport Height aren't Ethels. The Crich Stand trig is 287m, higher than the lowest Ethel, and Alport Height is above 300m. I'm assuming it's because they're deemed not to be in the Peak District, but that's very debatable - Crich Stand is, after all, a significant local landmark across much of Amber Valley and is a strong contender for "last hill in the Pennines" - I was brought up to believe its main rival was the lower and less notable Chevin down near Milford.

Hi Dave,

I thought Alport Height was an odd omission too. Originally I assumed it was because it isn't in the National Park, but then noticed that Grin Low outside Buxton is included and that isn't in the National Park either. 

The southern boundary seems a bit arbitrary - there would be a certain logic in stopping at Cromford, but Bolehill above Black Rocks is in, so even if east of the A6 was excluded (ie no Crich) then Alport Height feels like it should still be in.

When I was a teenager our village cricket team tended to be in the same division as Belper Meadows, who plays halfway up Alport Height, above Alderwasley, and it always felt like hill country, often windy and a bit bleak. We once went on a run of eight straight wins then travelled to Belper Meadows - who we expected to beat - and after we lost in some disarray the drive home to the local lowlands was subdued and gloomy - I can remember it even 40-plus years on.

I do remember Alport Height as bleak, but that might be because I've only been there in January. Failed to solo the Alport Stone (in trainers), must go back sometime with rock boots on a better day.

I remember first seeing the Stone on a family Saturday or Sunday afternoon outing around 50 years ago (the curious local notion of "going for a drive into Derbyshire" - we lived in Derbyshire already) and thinking it looked very hard. There's a line of steps chiselled into one of the faces as I recall - those didn't make it look any easier, though.

PS - Iain I was up Stuc today and paid Ken a visit. It was too cold to hang around for lunch with him, though.

I would tend to agree with you.  I've done the Wainwright Outlying Fells and there are a couple of those which don't have access which I didn't have trouble with (and I seem to recall trying to find someone to ask at the nearest farm), but I did get spoken to by the farmer re High Knott/Williamson's Monument.  As far as Durham Edge (Abney Moor) goes, from within the access land, as you say, the trig point was within about 100m and almost visible.  There would have been 2 walls to climb, and some barbed wire to negotiate, so it wasn't appealing.  It was close enough for me (and this is from someone who has thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail, and was hellbent on seeing every white blaze, and still remembers the few he missed near Pond Mountain, and went back after the finish to do them, but they'd been relo'd out by the time he got back ....).  And I'm using the list of Ethels as a pretext to design interesting walks into areas that I typically wouldn't otherwise venture much into, and am enjoying some new ground, exploring and unexpected gems.  Am enjoying reading others' comments on this thread about height qualifications, which all adds to the mix.  I understand the validity of those points, and they're interesting and informing and add to the colour.

That's where these lists really excel. There's a certain mindset that thinks hill-bagging is ridiculous because it's so prescriptive. But a while ago, over many years, I climbed all the Welsh Hewitts. It was great. I ended up visiting a lot of beautiful and quiet hills and valleys that otherwise would have passed me by. The same was true when living in Oxfordshire - the Wessex Downs, Chilterns and Cotswolds may not be high, but if you take the time to study the maps you find some interesting places to walk through.

I'll always want to return to the mountains of Snowdonia, but there's plenty of enjoyment in the small hills too.