UKC

A question of torque

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 Rip van Winkle 24 Jan 2022

I had to fix a puncture at the roadside recently. My wheels have through-axles, and the bike's handbook specifies the correct torque - it's different for front and rear. I only carry a multitool for such emergencies, and while you can judge "very tight" "quite tight" or "not very tight", you obviously can only do the best you can at the time. My question is, how important is it to reset to the correct torque as soon as possible? I can do it at home the same day, but what if you're on a multi-day trip? Should you find a mechanic with a torque wrench urgently, or can you forget about it for a few days without any lasting damage?

 fire_munki 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

Had thru axels for ages and never worried about the torque on them, even now with a torque wrench at home I don't think I've ever used it on axels.

 nniff 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

If you're worried, get one of these 

www.sigmasports.com/item/Silca/T-Ratchet-and-Ti-Torque-Kit/EMBL

Weighs about the same as one of those at multitools

or a preset torque wrench for a lot less:

www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/tools-for-your-shop/bontrager-preset-5-nm-torque-wrench/p/08370/

I'd only really worry about it on compressed carbon components (which don't get undone that often any way)  - stem clamp/steerer and seat post/tube.  A Mark 1 Calibrated Thumb should be fine

 gethin_allen 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

IIRC the max recommended torque for through axles (13 Nm for RS maxle) which is fairly high if you are just using a normal (not silly long) Allen key. So, considering the items being used are all aluminium I'd say as long as long as you are not being silly you should be fine. If you are concerned there are a few cheaper alternatives the the Silka wrenches but many of them operate around the 3-6 Nm range as that's the range for squishing carbon seat posts and handlebars.

cb294 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

Never used a torque wrench on my bike, not even for carbon stems and handlebars.

The main point of the torque recommendation for your axle is to prevent overtightening, so if you want to claim warranty after you managed to rip out the threads in your fork they can ask whether you used a torque wrench....

Just tighten to the point that there is no play, and give it good hand tighteneing using standard length allen keys (I assume that this is the system in question) or your multitool, and you will be fine.

Common sense will do in the other direction as well, you would know when it is too loose and your wheel is in danger of falling out!

CB

 Marek 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

One thing to remember is that the correlation between 'torque' (what you can actually measure/control) and 'clamping force' (what actually matters for everything other than bolt strength) are only reasonably well correlated under ideal (new in lab/factory) conditions. Once you get any dirt, corrosion or pitting in the thread or the thread aren't optimally lubricated (aka in the real world), then that correlation goes out of the door*, so worrying about whether you've exerted 10 or 12 Nm when doing up a through-axle (or whatever) is pointless. As other have said, just going with "quite tight" with a multi-tool is as good as using a 1% tolerance torque wrench.

* In proper engineering, when you really need to worry about clamping force you use 'preload clamping force washers' (various names) which visually change with clamping force and don't care about nut torque.

 GrahamD 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

A slight aside, I know, but is requiring a toolset to remove a bike wheel REALLY progress?

 Alkis 24 Jan 2022
In reply to GrahamD:

Not really. However, that's not what all through axles are like either. My Giant came with handles that are basically hex keys you either leave on permanently or chuck in your saddle bag. My mate's Trek has axles with a permanent handle, if you pull it out it rotates freely to align where you want, if you leave it in it's engaged and can unscrew the wheel, and the other side of the axle is just a hex slot.

 PaulW 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

Don't worry about it. Unless you calibrate your torque wrench it won't be "accurate" anyway. 

Quite tight, very tight and b****y tight are all you need.

 Basemetal 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

One thing about using a torque wrench when you can (at home etc) is that you get a bit of feel for the ballpark tightness for the regular bolts you work with.

 Dax H 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

Just give it a good nip and leave it at that.

Last time i used a torque wrench it was to tighten a piston nut to 800 lb-ft or just over 1000 NM. I can't get my head round things like 13 NM

Post edited at 17:01
 dovebiker 24 Jan 2022

Ex bike mechanic - they are shoulder-screws so whether they are lightly nipped-up or at the recommended 12 Nm doesn’t make any difference - you’d have to really strong-arm a through axle to do any damage - most likely round the hex. If you’re worried, just check them daily with your mini-tool.

 Enty 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

I wouldn't bother with the through axles as they're big and meaty.

Always use one on small stuff though. Biggest pita going when a client threads his handlebar clamp / stem bolts / seat clamp and you have to drive them down to the shop when you should be riding.

E

 ianstevens 24 Jan 2022
In reply to cb294:

> Never used a torque wrench on my bike, not even for carbon stems and handlebars.

Please go and buy a torque wrench before you overstress the components, they’ll thank you for it.

> The main point of the torque recommendation for your axle is to prevent overtightening, so if you want to claim warranty after you managed to rip out the threads in your fork they can ask whether you used a torque wrench....

No, it’s so you don’t trash your (carbon) frame. Manufacturers are trying to help you here, not swindle you of all your money.

 Dark-Cloud 25 Jan 2022
In reply to Rip van Winkle:

I have never put a torque wrench near my thru axles, i store my bike front wheel out so have to put the axle back in every time i ride it, the thought has never crossed my mind, i just use a long allen key and nip it. The only thing i put my torque wrench on is stem bolts, seat post clamp bolts etc.

cb294 25 Jan 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

If you have the common sense to generally not overtighten bolts, are aware that this can be a problem, and do not have ten left thumbs you do not really need a torque wrench.

To claim that this is for wiggling out of warranty was obviously done with my troll hat half on.

CB

 gethin_allen 25 Jan 2022
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

"...  i just use a long allen key and nip it. The only thing i put my torque wrench on is stem bolts, seat post clamp bolts etc."

Why the long Allen key? The original design of the Allen key is such as to help you achieve an appropriate torque for a given fastener. So these long things and ones with big comfortable grips are just asking for people to over tighten things.

In reply to Rip van Winkle:

Thanks for the responses, everyone. The consensus seems to be "don't worry about it", which is great. I forgot to mention the frame and forks in question are Al not C, so even less of a worry. I have a neat little torque wrench I chuck in the car if I'm taking my bike somewhere with the wheel out, but don't really want to carry it all the time. Thanks!

 ianstevens 25 Jan 2022
In reply to cb294:

> If you have the common sense to generally not overtighten bolts, are aware that this can be a problem, and do not have ten left thumbs you do not really need a torque wrench.

Must be nice to have the level of sensory feedback where you can tell the difference between 4 and 6 Nm. Torque wrenches are cheap, and a worthwhile investment if you own a carbon bike. I don't understand why you wouldn't buy one, but each to their own! 

> To claim that this is for wiggling out of warranty was obviously done with my troll hat half on.

> CB

1
 artif 25 Jan 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> Must be nice to have the level of sensory feedback where you can tell the difference between 4 and 6 Nm. Torque wrenches are cheap, and a worthwhile investment if you own a carbon bike. I don't understand why you wouldn't buy one, but each to their own! 

Got to love the tighten and go mob. 

Most people over tighten small stuff and undertighten the big stuff. With standard size spanners 8mm is the sweet spot where most people get it about right.

With long spanners/hex keys etc all bets are off.

Unless you have extensive experience in torque tightening you have no idea how tight your winding up those poor little M5 bolts on your bike.

Torque wrenches are relatively cheap compared to the cost of some bikes, seems stupid not to invest in some, but also invest some time learning about the different conditions and torques i.e. lubricated or dry and the grade of the fixing.

P. S. I've been doing this a while from M2 - 12" bolts that require 5 tonne spanners. 

1
 gethin_allen 25 Jan 2022
In reply to artif:

> Got to love the tighten and go mob. 

I bought a small torque wrench for carbon stuff after a bike shop over tightened my seat clamp, cracking the frame and squashing the aero seat post. The shop obviously claimed they always use a torque wrench and took no responsibility for it.

 Dark-Cloud 25 Jan 2022
In reply to gethin_allen:

Because i'm less likely to lose a handled allen key which also happens to be long than a standard one in my bike room, no other reason!


 Dark-Cloud 25 Jan 2022
In reply to artif:

It's a bike, not a gas turbine, if you are ham fisted enough to strip an M5 stem bolt or stupid enough to finger tighten a thru axle then you probably shouldn't be near a bike in the first place!

1
cb294 25 Jan 2022
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Exactly my point, but much more eloquently made!

CB

 artif 25 Jan 2022
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Unfortunately many people are ham fisted oafs, I've met enough who claim to be mechanics/engineers.

And yes most people shouldn't be near a bike with a spanner. Old tread irons are tolerant of abuse, modern moderately high end bikes aren't

 Martin W 25 Jan 2022
In reply to dovebiker:

> Ex bike mechanic - they are shoulder-screws so whether they are lightly nipped-up or at the recommended 12 Nm doesn’t make any difference - you’d have to really strong-arm a through axle to do any damage - most likely round the hex.

I've more or less ruined the hex socket on a RockShox Maxle using a torque wrench at the correct setting (10Nm - it was an MTB thru axle).  Reports of similar problems online do seem to support my view that they are made out of cheese. (The road bike ones may be better, I wouldn't know.)

I now use 'brand x' thru axles from Wiggle/CRC which have the re-positionable built-in handle as described by @Alkis above. This means that I don't need a hex wrench in order to be able to remove and replace the wheel should that be necessary when I'm out and about (although I do usually carry a multi-tool anyway). The built-in handle is short enough to make it very unlikely that I could over-tighten it to a damaging degree with finger pressure alone. These thru axles are a few grammes heavier than the RS ones but (a) they are fit for purpose, and (b) they are a lot cheaper.


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