UKC

Hi,

i sold my north face blue kazoo a few years ago when i became vegan and started avoiding down. Since then i’ve occasionally been looking for a vegan friendly sleeping bag with similar warmth (800 fill i think it was).

Does anyone have any recs? After something light and warm. Ideally primaloft gold but will consider primaloft silver too, or similar tech.

In no hurry to buy but keen to get some recs so I can keep an eye on the sales! 😊

Thanks!

Absolutely no experience of this one, but the link below is not for a jacket but a vegan sleeping bag.

 https://outdoorsmagic.com/article/duplicate-66-north-snaefell-jacket-review...

At least it is on my laptop anyway. If link not working, search Vaude Meglis Eco. 

b

Am I an ass for asking this: why did you sell a perfectly good product just because you decided you want to start avoiding down?

Now you have to buy a new product which may or may not be up to the same standards (down is notoriously hard to properly replicate at the high-end of the insulation spectrum although products are getting better), which brings new carbon emissions and materials footprint, however much manufacturers are trying to offset these nowadays. Just using your old sleeping bag might have been better in the long run...

The slightly implausably named Softie 9 from Snugpak could work, especially when combined with a micro fleece liner - mine's served me well!

https://www.snugpak.com/sleeping/sleeping-bags/softie-9

Presumably the new owner won't now be buying a new down bag and climbingnoob is going to buy a vegan one, therefore increasing demand for vegan bags and reducing demand for down ones?

And also vegan products have a way lower carbon footprint than a down one. Think of all the years geese have been eating, shitting, growing to grow their feathers! :o

Also @VictorM got rid of the down one because I became repulsed by the thought of sleeping in it. Got rid of my wool and leather stuff too. It was just bugging me knowing I owned it so sold it on and decided to get something that didn't bug me. Simple as that.

pretty heavy. Think that's about double the weight of a blue kazoo :o

I'm after something in the kilo-ish range. Hope something exists! Thanks for the recommendation though

edit: just found this: https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/V/Kelty_Mistral_0F-18C_4-Season_Sleeping_Ba...

Cheaper, warmer and the same weight as the one you posted.

Fair enough, in a way. I would however be very careful with picking your vegan stuff. Most vegan stuff is polybased so it's made from plastic. 

There are some alternatives and they are getting better, such as corn-starch based insulation - and of course using recycled plastics as the base. The main problem with recycled plastics used as leather- and wool alternatives is that they are as of yet not as durable as either virgin polyesters and polyamides. 

In the end the most ethically and environmentally friendly consumer choice is the one that meets high moral standards in terms of production processes and the one that lasts the longest. Down, wool and leather are hard to beat on those fronts when picking the right manufacturer (which is a challenge, I admit).  

pretty heavy. Think that's about double the weight of a blue kazoo :o

I'm after something in the kilo-ish range. Hope something exists! Thanks for the recommendation though 

Good luck with that. Even using lightweight high-quality down most four-season bags are easily over a kilo. This is the main downside to any sleeping bag not using down, when you get into the subzeroes they become very heavy and big due to the insulating capabilities of the materials.

About the only advantage of non-down bags is that they are able to cope with moisture much better hence they are great for 2/3 season sleeping bags when there's lots of wet cold in the forecast. 

A synthetic bag that is as warm as a down bag will fill your rucksack and leave little room for anything else

Al

I'm a meat-dodging veggie with vegan aspirations. My main motivation was/is animal welfare although environmental considerations play a strong part. 

I've been 'struggling' with down/leather v synthetic. I don't want to use animal products but, environmentally, I'm not sure that avoiding them is actually good. 

Synthetic products have ultimately come from oil and undergone a lot of factory time to become insulation. Recycled products excepted of course.

Then they don't tend to last as long so are replaced sooner. (I'm definitely not chucking or selling anything down or leather I already own. That seems liek the worst of all options to me.) 

They're also often not recyclable and don't decompose.

Down takes less processing, is becoming recycleable and should decompose more.

I have no real data support any of this, it's really just a string of my thoughts. Guess I'd be keen to hear any one else's thoughts.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic! 

Everything you're saying is true, the only thing that's slowly changing is that non-virgin polybased textiles are becoming more durable. Also, don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to make acceptable recycled polybased textiles. 

This was my take on it too, if you already own it then use it until it can be used no more and buy synthetic as a replacement if and when required.

Lightweight synthetic and a couple of Whippets. 

They actually love sleeping under duvets an I can attest to how much warmth they generate. Also they don't need carrying so more room in bag for beer!

From my experience of looking for similar in terms of sleeping bags then you have to accept that a synthetic bag will be a lot heavier than the down alternative.

I would be interested to see detailed comparisons of the environmental impact of these materials though and whether the down/leather manufacturers take into account the environmental impact of the farming that leads to the material or if the information is based on it being a by product.

There's clearly room to improve with synthetic materials but I don't think we should act like products made with animal products are 'natural'.

Down sleeping bags and jackets have polyester outers and inners.

The tanning process with leather often involves lots of pollution and toxins leaking into the environment.

For me I'd take the polymer based products and trying to avoid harming animals directly over making my bag lighter / body warmer.

Not sure that's entirely true in the medium-long term. A good down bag with loose fill will, if looked after, last many times longer than a synthetic bag, as the filling in those breaks down. I admit there's a lot of factors to consider to get a definitive answer.

Fair enough, that's your choice.

Getting rid of wool seems an odd one to me, as the sheep don't have to die to produce it and, arguably, it benefits them when they're shorn and is better for the environment than synthetics. Of course, if you just want to cut out any animal involvement, then it'll have to go.

I assume you're looking at bamboo fibres and other as replacements for clothing, rather than synthetics?

found the mountain hardwear lamina range quite good- there is a penalty in weight and bulk for sure but in my experience this is offset a bit if out for a few days as the down gains weight and loses insulation value.

I've never really understood why vegans are happy with plastic as it is clearly an animal product being derived from crude oil and oil is an animal product.

I assume you could make vegan plastic by applying serious chemical engineering to coal.