UKC

Walking axe for Grade 1 and 2

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 Cleft 06 Feb 2022

Planning to head to Scotland next week for a first winter forray.  Have just one walking axe.  Will this be okay for grade 1 and 2 gulleys or should I get a second axe?

 olddirtydoggy 06 Feb 2022
In reply to Cleft:

Grade 2 gulleys can be a funny one as the quality of the snow and steepness of the route can affect how that might work out. It will also depend on your experience, is that "first winter forray" your first time out or first time this season? If you're with a partner and have a simple rack, you'll probably be OK but alone it might be you could need another axe. I've stuffed a spare single climbing axe on the back of my pack before. Have fun.

 Darkinbad 07 Feb 2022
In reply to Cleft:

Well obviously it can be done (you could also pack tricounis for some good old-fashioned step-cutting fun) but TBH I think a climbing axe on your pack, if not in your hand, would be a good investment in terms of both safety and enjoyment. You could easily hit some icy steps on a grade 2 that would feel far more secure with a climbing axe. For that matter, grade 1 is not to be sniffed at - its not always a banked-out snow plod.

 DaveHK 07 Feb 2022
In reply to Cleft:

I've got one of these as a second axe for those scenarios where you might want one or might not. It's light, cheap and surprisingly effective.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/mountaineering-ice-axe-fox-carving/_/R-p-9196...

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 CurlyStevo 07 Feb 2022
In reply to Cleft:

Hmm its quite conditions and route dependent. Grade I's in good condition one axe is enough. For grade II I'd get a second axe. Also you may want to check your walking axe as there are different types. Ideally for graded winter climbs especially above grade I, you want a T rated axe.

 CurlyStevo 07 Feb 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

Personally I'd suggest the OP just gets a pair of second hand climbing axes on ebay (or a single axe which they intend to later sell when they get an identical pair). I'd aim for one with a pommel with a hole in that can be clipped, a rubber grip for hands, atleast a lower grip rest (but ideally an upper one too) and an adze / hammer.

I'm sure something can be picked up on ebay for a reasonable price. Something like the orange model Black Diamond Vipers would be great. That way you can easily sell them on if required with little loss of money.

The one you linked is more aimed at ski mountaineering and as far as I can tell has a B rated shaft (EN 13089 Type 1 not meant for belaying off).

Post edited at 08:22
 DaveHK 07 Feb 2022
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> Personally I'd suggest the OP just gets a pair of second hand climbing axes on ebay (or a single axe which they intend to later sell when they get an identical pair). I'd aim for one with a pommel with a hole in that can be clipped, a rubber grip for hands, atleast a lower grip rest (but ideally an upper one too) and an adze / hammer.

> The one you linked is more aimed at ski mountaineering and as far as I can tell has a B rated shaft (EN 13089 Type 1 not meant for belaying off).

I'd say that's overkill.

It sounded from the post as if they wanted a second axe for additional security on steep terrain. The Simond one is perfect for that and such an axe doesn't need any of the features you list. I do use it with a wrist loop though.

 CurlyStevo 07 Feb 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

I'd agree for grade I, but for grade II a climbing axe that's rated for belaying would be better IMO. If the OP aspires to do more winter climbing they'll probably progress above grade I or II at which point the Simond axe would not be suitable.

Also on steep terrain those axes with no rubber grip are very slippery to try and hold on to, yes you could tape it, add a rest etc but there is no pomel and its not rated for climbing anyway.

The OP is now banned from posting so its somewhat of a moot point.

Post edited at 08:37
 Suncream 07 Feb 2022
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> Ideally for graded winter climbs especially above grade I, you want a T rated axe.

Why? The OP is not gonna be torquing in cracks. Even for belaying off (which you may do to pass a cornice in an easy gully) the snow is always going to break before the shaft of the axe.

 CurlyStevo 07 Feb 2022
In reply to Suncream:

If that were true there would be no point in rating axe shafts in the first place. I'd expect the aluminum to bend before it 'broke' in any case.

Again what's the point in buying a ski mountaineering axe not really designed for climbing when the OP already has an axe suitable for that sort of ground and the requirement for a second axe is only likely necessary if they venture on to steeper, climbing sort of territory?

Post edited at 08:41
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 Suncream 07 Feb 2022
In reply to CurlyStevo:

In mixed climbing when you torque a tool or do stein pulls or whatever you can exert huge forces on the shaft, so in this case T rated axes are very necessary. Not for grade I and II snow plods.

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 CurlyStevo 07 Feb 2022
In reply to Suncream:

Not all grade II's are a snow plod!  

https://imgcdn.ukc2.com/i/62710?fm=jpg&time=1559809035&s=b9dbf808e4...

Anyway even if that type 1 shaft is strong enough to belay off why buy an axe designed for ski mountaineering when for similar cash an axe designed for climbing can be purchased second hand on ebay that has a grip rest and rubber grip (and ideally a pommel with a hole in).

Assumedly the now banned OP may progress above grade I or II at which point the simond axe will have been a bad buy!

Post edited at 08:51
1
 DaveHK 07 Feb 2022
In reply to CurlyStevo:

>  why buy an axe designed for ski mountaineering 

Because it's light, cheap and works perfectly well as a second tool for added security. If you want to go down the specific kit for every job rabbit hole then that's fine but it's really not necessary.


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