UKC

Sorry if this is wrong forum. Superb piece of journalism by the admirable Catherine Bennett in the Sunday Guardian aka Observer is investigating the Marie Antoinette phenomenon. Very acute observations and great choice of words. I loved the bit about the advice from EON to people suffering fuel poverty, which she describes as “let them wear socks”.

The article can be found by googling “Isn’t it a bit rich for Kirstie Allsopp”

Kirstie Alsop is a dunderhead (thanks Scottish part of my ancestry for that word).

She was also recently criticised for saying that young people would be able to afford to buy a house if they cancelled their Netflix subscriptions.

This is part of the article.

Yes, she had family help in buying her first home as well, which leaves her no ground to stand on at all, I think.

I don't normally pronounce on people, but she definitely is.

Ah, must be the same article I read earlier this week (sorry, didn't do the suggestedG oogling). Thought it was a new one featuring yet more Alsopp f**kwittery.  As if there wasn't enough to round already...

Edit: Having now googled as advised, no, it's not the same article. The one I remembered from earlier this week was this one: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/07/kirstie-allsopp-cance.... As you were.

If she'd said  "stopped smoking" would it have evoked the same reaction?

I don't think that's a particularly good comparison.  When I was a smoker I'd buy five packs a week, which these days would knock you back around £50, or £200 a month.  Which looks like a much more worthwhile saving than Netflix at a maximum of £13.99 a month (I'd suggest most young, single people wouldn't pay more than the £9.99 standard tariff unless they really wanted UHD).  If you were spending that much on fags these days, you'd be smoking about one cigarette a day, if that: that's more of an affectation than an addiction - you could give it up without really thinking about it.  And it still wouldn't make a massive difference to your ability to afford a deposit and fund a mortgage.

Now, if you'd said takeaway coffees, that might have been another matter.

They'd get the house faster if they cancelled their TV licences.

You can’t get many coffees for 50 pence a day

She has form from years ago, re talking about how she had to budget when she got her first home and only had a black and white TV, and her parents helped her out. Now she's older and richer, she's insinuating stopping a netflix subscription would open up the chance of buying a home for young people, when rent rates and the money needed for a deposit when average earnings are taken into account, is what is pricing many people out of buying a home.

My own parents sorted me out, which leaves me feeling like I'm in no place to talk about such things...

I wonder if the "Netflix subscription" is being taken a bit to literally and it was meant as a shorthand expression for various costly lifestyle spends . i.e. having the latest i-phone , living mostly on takeout meals etc etc......

It could be being, but while I've not being paying a lot of attention to the figures I've seen (other things to think about), I get the sense that even not having the latest phones, and avoiding takeaways and eating out and having netflix (and other short term indulgences), it'd still be questionable whether it'd make any difference once the amount one can buy for a pound and rising house prices are taken into account, that is, once below a certain income level, 'people are screwed' in a way which wasn't the case circa 20 years ago. Which I gather is partly why she's irritated people like she.

If you're earning 18k or 20k a year, and a deposit is 30k ,and you're paying 400 a month on rent, how do you manage to save for a deposit, after food and energy is paid for, and running a car and clothing other ancillaries (toiletries and dental bills)? If house prices and cost of living remained static, it wouldn't be so bad (7 to 7 years to save up is a fair while but it's doable), but they're going up and wages aren't. 

It would make a difference, but wouldn't get you a house. Maybe a deposit over 10 years. I can't recall my parents ever buying a sandwich or drink for lunch at work, they always took lunch with them. Most in the 70s, 80s would be in a works canteen running at cost. If you an in phone, data, netflix, gym etc you might get £100-150/mth, maybe another £200 for a pret a manger type lunch. 

I've stopped buying a coffee every day I'm at uni now, I've discovered a kitchen in a less busy corner which I sneak into on the quiet.

I read this today. Probably true for me, although I had a very modest amount of help, which helped things happen a bit quicker.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/middle-aged-buy-home-twenties-kirstie-al...

I little bit of personal responsibility plays a role, but the barriers to home ownership have increased massively over the last twenty years.

Maybe people need to adjust their aspirations . I've been watching the "where to live in Sheffield " thread with mild interest. The average house price in Sheffield is £231, 000 .  Looking at people's criteria for desirable residency in Sheffield, they include "international food, artisan coffee, trendy, cool pubs, stuff going on (ahem), action, liveliness, great vibe".

Someone really keen to get on the property ladder might think about forgoing all these "essentials," and opting for somewhere less central. Not too far away and within easily commutable distance, the average house price  is around £60,000 less, and every little helps with that deposit.

I think you're possibly rather jaundiced/the average is being skewed by Dore, Totley, Ranmoor and Fulwood, though it's towards the lower end, being close to the liveliness of decent pubs and nice places to go to, can be had for a house costing circa 175k (as far as the asking prices go), which is roughly the price you see as being more reasonable.

In one of the areas mentioned (Crookes) as being better value and further out, a 2 bed terraced house with a downstairs bathroom and small terraced house size garden recently went for 180k to mine and my brother's surprise, in 2013 it would have cost around 130k. 

Come to Leeds, 180k is give or take a few quid what my 3 bed semi with a decent sized garden and garage would go for at the moment. 2 bed back to back terraces I would estimate at about 100k but you can't buy them, most are owned by landlord's who are not selling and when one does come on the market its gone in a couple of days to a landlord with cash. 

It is next to a rural beauty spot and within 15 mins cycle of the edge of the Peak to be fair, maybe 80k for a terraced house isn't too bad, if other life enhancing things are present too.

Never been accused of being jaundiced by quoting a nationally available statistic before.

People who are desperate to get on the house buying ladder will have to factor in the proximity of "decent pubs" and "rural beauty spots" when they are trying to scrape together enough for a deposit.

It's totally the aspiration to live near ones friends and family that's the problem. My mate's mum bought they house they grew up in for £108,000. She just sold it for over £1.2 million. Even then after taxes and buying a smaller place for herself and saving for retirement there isn't really enough to help all her kids out.

My best friends, and I all grew up in the same area. Our families are all there. If only we weren't so picky and were happy to move across the country to some place where we don't know anyone or have any sense of community and away from our jobs, it's our own fault really.

You know if I stopped spending £100,000 a month on iPhones and avocados I could probably afford to buy there. I'm paying someone else's mortgage in rent anyway so if I was willing to cut back on those massive expenses, or just buying fewer lattes and I would have a deposit in no time. If only you had been here sooner to tell me to save for a house before buying Yeezys I probably would already have enough!

Yes it's definitely all that and not an insane housing market, along with other cost of living increases massively outstripping salary increase. Definitely the fault of millennials liking to have a decent meal now and again, and not billionaires buying up all the housing for income and investment.

Old adages about cutting your cloth and similar actually do make sense but your sarcasm suggests you don't think so.

The TV licence costs £13.25 a month, Netflix costs between £5.99 and £13.99.  The expensive end of the Netflix scale is for HD.

So I stand by my statement: you'd get a house faster by cancelling the TV licence. 

I did say possibly, and suggest an alternative too, but pardon that.

Yes, sorry. But your point about price averages being skewed by the posh suburb effect doesn't only apply to Sheffield. You could make a similar deduction for one of the satellite towns.

Old ages are used to keep the peasants in their place.

If you were struggling to get by due to the  prices of basic essentials constantly increasing, and an insane housing market, while wages study the same, but but the media keeps saying that people in your demographic are spoiled and just eat too much brunch, then other people keep believing this crap how would you feel? 

The viewpoint is also callous and suggests anyone not incredibly well off shouldn't be allowed to have a treat once in a while.

To use another adage you can run out of bootstraps to pull up these days and still not get anywhere.

 You don't have to live in a cool or trendy part of the city to enjoy a treat/decent meal. Up until a few years ago the best place to eat in the Sheffield area  was in Chapeltown.

Never said you did. You were saying people couldn't afford houses cos they eat out and buy iPhones. 

While completely ignoring the 1000% increases in house prices.

What was it called?

It seems to me that there are 2 problems: 

First UK housebuilders haven't been busy enough, across all sectors, but especially councils who haven't built any new houses for decades (compared with the post war period)

Second is the rental market is as deregulated as possible, so rents are spiralling and standards falling.

The combination of the 2 traps people into renting which costs more than buying, leaving them unable to afford to buy. 

I don't think the combination noted above is any random coincidence either, judging by the number of Tory MPs with interests in property

I take your point, but the average house and Octavia owning UKCer isn't typical of a young, first time buyer.

That's still £170k. One hundred and seventy thousand pounds. That's still beyond many young people. 

Yeah I kind of agree, property prices have gone batsh*t in my area over the 7 years I've been here and it's become pretty laughable at what you get for your money, even in Glasgow

However:

I'm about smack in the middle of the millennial age bracket and I can think of plenty of my generation that would stand a much, much better chance of buying somewhere if they learned to cut their cloth appropriately. If you want X then you can't have Y etc etc.

I include early 20's me in that assessment BTW. I could have bought my place at least 2 years earlier if I'd been more careful.

I'm sorry if it came across like that. I was really trying to say that if I was desperate to get on the housing ladder  then the proximity of artisan coffee shops or the presence of a  cool vibe wouldn't be factors that would affect my choice of area.

Neither would the local school's place on some league table or other.

Greenhead House.

Where are you comparing it to, which establishments? The best place in Sheffield is a big claim.

Yes, it was just a reputation it had at the time. I can't say that I tried much of the opposition but a lot of critics seemed to share the opinion so I was happy enough to go there once or twice a year. I've tried Googling for old reviews but can't find any.

Under the 1980 Housing Act, local authorities were strictly constrained in the use to which they could put the proceeds from the forced sale of council houses under "right to buy" (at an average discount of 44%), which meant that more or less none of the council houses which had been sold to private owners (many by using mortgages which the LAs were obliged to offer) could be replaced.  The situation eased somewhat in the noughties but by then the damage had been done, and most new social housing was provided by housing associations rather LAs.  However, in 2012 the maximum discounts available were increased, and tied to CPI thereafter, and in 2016 right to buy was extended to housing association tenants.

Bottom line: social housing provision has been systematically attacked and eroded by central government since the 1980s.  It's difficult to blame local LAs for failing to provide more council houses when they have basically been prevented from doing so for over forty years.

I wasn't blaming the LAs, just pointing out that less houses than required have been built