UKC

Hi all, 

After much scrutiny of previous forum posts I am still left scratching my head for a definitive answer on the conditions in the Pyrenees in mid-late April. I do apologise if I have overlooked this information.

I am visiting family who live a couple of hours North of Toulouse and have a chance to nip down with a partner for a couple of days. This would be my first time visiting the Pyrenees. 

I have some winter mountaineering experience having spent a week on a skills course in Scotland and gained some further QMDs including grade II ground so I am relatively happy with the winter walking environment. 

I have been looking at potentially summiting pic du Montcalm/Pica D'Estats from the Pinet refuge. Is this a reasonable goal for two fit 30 somethings with some winter experience. 

Very open to any other ideas for a short trip that could involve a decent day or two winter mountaineering all be it on relativley easy routes? Thank you, James. 

In reply to Cumbria James:

That time of year can be extremely variable up high, from hardly any snow left at all right through to new powder above about 1000m, so it's really impossible to make any plans that won't have some chance of being inappropriate.

In a typical season by then I would expect very little by way of snow beneath 2000m, even on the North slopes (which is what you'll be on) and a lot of fairly hard packed snow/ice above that, which should be easily crampon-able. However, both of those peaks are quite steep near their summits, particularly Montcalm, to the point where it may almost be classed as easy scrambling rather than walking, which could then be problematic depending on your level of winter experience.

In reply to Cumbria James:

It's very unpredictable, especially with climate change. I suspect no-one has given a definitive answer because no-one can.

25 years ago we went in early May and it was pretty suicidal (the guardian at the Refuge de Vignemale was killed the week before in the Couloir de Gaube). Big storms with wet deep snow and much swimming on moving slopes beneath us.

It was...educational (we learnt not to do that ever again).

On the other hand it's feasible there's not going to be much left if it's been a bad year (someone on the ground will know better than I). 

Good luck

b

In reply to ben b:

Thus far I think this year's been slightly leaner than average, but there's plenty of snow forecast this weekend and a lot can change during March.

In reply to Cumbria James: Its Webcams from the huts on the Spanish side of the border but may help you assess conditions nearer the time. It does appear to have been a leaner than usual season so far 

https://www.alberguesyrefugios.com/webcams#gallery-webcam-24

also Pic dEstats webcam  http://www.meteovallsdaneu.com/webcam_picaestats.php

In reply to john arran:

Hi and in a similar theme, what’s the earliest people usually climb on the naranjo de bulnes please. Do you know when the refuge opens 

In reply to llanberis36:

Sorry, it's WAY out of my patch! I hope someone more local can help.

In reply to Cumbria James:

If you have enough French then you might try to look at the camptocamp website where you will find out what is being climbed and reported (very similar to UKC but often more info). The reports do tend to be of more technical climbs. there are often photos. 

You could also try to ask club alpin in Toulouse whose office is normally staffed or Club Alpin Foix who are only open 2 days per week.  Both clubs may also have reports with photos of outings that the club has organised and you may be able to see conditions from those photos.

The 'planned '  outings of the club alpin  will also give you some ideas of what they think are typically doable around the relevant dates but as John A says conditions can vary to a massive degree - climate change means there is no more 'normal'

If you are keen on Montcalm / Estats then you can always contact the guardian of the refuges once they are open.  the French refuges open later than the spanish ones but will probably open for Easter - a bit depends on the conditions.

In reply to john arran and Ben:

Firstly, thank you for the insights and advice, it is greatly appreciated. I suppose by virtue of the time of year nothing is certain and mid april appears to be nicely within the transition between winter and summer conditions. I guess this time of year also brings a heightened avalanche risk?  

Taking into consideration the comments on the severity of both peaks i mentioned, would anyone consider Mont Valier from the Estagnous refuge an "easier" ascent and a safer bet conditions wise? I have emailed off to the refuge guardians to see what they think but am yet to get a response. 

Thanks again, 

James.

In reply to leon 1:

Great resource there, thank you! I imagine it will become very handy closer to the time.

James

In reply to martin09:

Martin, 

I have just spent some time on camptocamp (with google translate assisting) and wow what a fountain of information, thank you for the pointer there. 

From what John and Ben have mentioned I have now been looking into Mont Valier as a possible option with what looks like a mild grade winter grade 1 ascent from a refuge to the summit,  it has peaked my interest! I will be contacting the guardians on your suggestion. 

Thanks again,

James

In reply to Cumbria James:

For the benefit of anyone following this thread I have had some correspondence with the guardians of the Refuge Estagnous at Mont Valier. They predict the snow pack being intact from 1800/2000m at this time of year. They also informed me that the wind has been very strong this season and so has left a lot of ridges and peaks scoured.

The picture linked below shows the route (blue) that they recommend at that time of year. 

https://whympr.com/en/route/31625-mont-valier-voie-normale

Has anyone been up Mont Valier in winter conditions before? I would be really interested in anyone’s comments or experiences on it. There is some information on camptocamp (thanks Martin) but mostly summer and ski mountaineering trips. 

James

In reply to Cumbria James:

depending on the year, April may still be ski moutaineering conditions

In reply to Doug:

Just a bump on this. 

Travelling over Monday, does anyone have any idea of current conditions on top of what is availiable on Meteoblue? 

Have also been looking the the Pic Des Trois Seigneurs ridge route as a back up if anyone has experience of that route/area? 

Thanks 

James

In reply to Cumbria James:

No detailed info but had an email from a friend who lives in Andorra this morning which included the line "We had 40-50 cm powder Friday / Saturday, excellent snow."

In reply to Cumbria James:

A very different suggestion for and one based on the fact that I'm here now and just discovering the area, gorge d'heric and Mont Caroux. Perfect granite, sun on your back, not many people... its pretty awesome.

In reply to Doug:

I would second that. I follow the conditions in the  Catalan Pyrenees, there has been an cold snap least weekend bringing a sizable dump of snow.

Even two weeks ago I had good spring touring conditions in the Val d' Aran.

This will hold for the bordering Ariege.

 Certainly still skis and skins high up.

In reply to critter:

Agreed. A big dump of late snow last weekend, and it has yet to get very much warmer, so above 1500m there will be plenty of deep snow for at least a couple of weeks yet.