UKC

So, I have always gone with the received wisdom that a UK technical grade (for example the 6a in E3 6a) reflects the difficulty of the hardest move, climbed as if it was straight off the ground, with no consideration of the stamina required to reach it, or the run out. In other words, a bouldering grade.

So how does a UK technical grade compare with other bouldering grade systems, for example Font or V grades. I've seen various comparison charts which allow you to compare a UK trad grade with a Sport grade or a YDS (American grade) - but I've never really seen a comparison of UK tech grades to other bouldering grades.

I can think of a few points of reference, from back in the day (80s/90s) before Font or V grades were a thing:

• Bermuda Triangle (f6C) f6C  at  Pex Hill Quarry was always considered as UK 6a
• Hanging Flakes (f6B) V4 at Cuckoo Rock and Combeshead Tor was thought of as UK 6b
• No match for climb id:250817 V3 at Down Tor was so named as it was thought to be UK 6b (probably was in EBs!)

Thoughts?
Steve

In reply to gooberman-hill:

https://rockfax.com/climbing-guides/grades/

Second table down

In reply to gooberman-hill:

At risk of grandmother egg sucking lessons....well established outdoor bouldering grades are about how hard a problem is once you have worked out the easiest sequence. That's not the same as UK tech because a boulder problem might or might not be sustained at the tech grade. For single-move crux problems the grades should correlate until you get to the ridiculous wide tech grade bands above UK 6a. Both grades can obviously be morpho or reach dependant at times.

I'd add that boulderers have exposed quite a bit of sandbag tech grading on old school micro-routes, especially at UK 6a and below.  The only correctly graded f6C I could imagine in the UK that is also correctly given UK 6a would be a longish sustained traverse.

In reply to Offwidth:

Yes, there are good reasons why we stopped giving boulder problems route tech grades. 

Back in the day when it was common practice I remember thinking that although I would regularly onsight 5c or sometimes 6a on routes the same grade on boulder problems often took a while to work out.

Looking at Dumby, the place I'm most familiar with in this regard, most of the problems given British 6a back in the day are now Font 6a.

In reply to Offwidth:

This is a good point. 

In reply to gooberman-hill: In answer to the OPs original question - crudely - everything outside 6a going up is compressed into a couple of grades (to UK 6c) and everything below is two bouldering grades.

In reply to Offwidth:

Whats the deal with this?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/stanage_plantation-101/not_to_be_t...

Wasn't it always given E2 6a in old money? A UK 6a move off the ground then E2 5b territory? Surely that would be f6A or f6A+ or f6B at absolute maximum?

In reply to The Pylon King:

It's got harder at the start with all the traffic and is probably a tad overgraded in bouldering terms but being a Plantation classic gets ego grade votes.

In reply to Offwidth:

Ah, thats what someone else told me as well. Thanks.

In reply to gooberman-hill:

I think the bmc definitive grit guides use UK tech grades for bouldering. It's useful in that context as a measure against trad cruxes but I find it a bit too broad generally. A boulder given 6a English could be any number of Font or V grades.  

In reply to PaulJepson:

The conversion charts to V grades that one sees in the UK seem to be all over the place. If you go to Hueco Tanks, where John Sherman perfected the V grades, you will find that V2 is consistently about English tech 6a.  The V grades at Hueco Tanks are fantastically humiliating! 

In reply to gooberman-hill:

At least one of your data points is unhelpful - Bermuda Triangle is nails for 6a. It’s also nails for f6C, deserves an E grade really 😁

In reply to steveriley:

Oh, completely agree. It certainly was considered hard for 6a in about 84 /85 when I was climbing there. 

Steve

In reply to gooberman-hill:

I did Bermuda Triangle most visits in my prime (I wish now) and whilst I did manage some 6b routes on sight it was only a few so for me the grade was about right? Maybe the style suits some more than others?

In reply to John Stainforth:

if  V2 is consistently about English tech 6a.  that must be correct then as the sytem was developed by Sherman , So humiliation only comes when expectation is derived from climbing things that are wrongly graded (in respect to the original ) in other areas such as Britain , 

The first bouldering guide in the peak had B grades these were not related to any existing system and B whatever  was easier than the corresponding V.  Al Williams had no experience of V grades at the time so did not use them but just related problems to each other . some later publications simply substituted V for B and so altered V grade here in Britain . 

Climbing walls have not helped with the need for users to see progress especially in the lower grades , a point that more than one manager or head setter has  told me .

Nothing wrong in the former paragraph if folk understand  they are climbing English V grades. ( certainly in the lower numbers ) the latter observation has potentially more impact  over time as people emerge from walls then vote on UKC , But as you travel around Britain grades vary widely anyway . 

In reply to 193:

Please show me any single updated guidebook that substituted V for B. By the time the changes happened to using V grades in UK guidebooks the relationship between all the systems were well enough understood. In our Peak grit guides easier UK 6a was f6A and V2. Our work involved the same people who took on the revamp of the Williams' Peak Bouldering guide (and who in any case mainly related to Font grades).