UKC

The new indoor wall near me is rather poorly designed - the top ropes hang directly down the line of the lead clips and there's a screwgate and snapgate both on one round maillon at the top. 

The top-ropes used to run through both krabs.  Then someone pointed out/realised that lead ropes through the snapgate rubbed on the toprope whilst lowering off.  So then the toprope was confined to the screwgate and the snapgate used for lead lowering.  Still some rubbing, but perhaps least worst setup if the screwgate is reliably done up.

We used to just pull the top rope to one side whilst leading (which also helped reduce the rub between the two ropes at the top).  Now someone has decided that this isn't safe - a leader might fall and entangle in the toprope.  Instead we're instructed to pull down the toprope and then re-hang it at the end of leading on that panel.

Not only is that a PITA, it also introduces some new risks - like clipping the wrong rope as you lead (ok, unlikely, but I have reached down and pulled up a loop of rope to clip and then had to get the other one).  More significantly I think it means the wall is now relying on randomers like me to correctly re-rig the top-rope (do up the screwgate etc.).

I spoke to the team (who are lovely) to say that I thought the current system was worse than the problem it was aimed to solve.  Some of them agree - but it's "written down in their manual" and, apparently that's an immutable, eternal and unchallengeable.  I've also suggested that additional anchors, offset a little, might solve all this...but that's not possible.

Thanks for listening!

Moving top ropes to the side to lead seems very common at walls that don't have separate top rope/lead routes.  I, like you, would be more concerned at people re-rigging the top ropes wrongly, e.g. not screwing the screwgate in.

I'm the opposite - having climbed at places that go for the move to one side approach, and those that ask you to pull them down, I much prefer pulling them down and putting back up at the end.

When I'm putting the top rope back up I attach it to a rear gear loop of my harness (so literally no chance of me clipping the wrong one) and pop it through the biners at the top going in the same direction as the lead line, hold on to the top rope line (so that it's not pulling on my gear loop) then lower.

I think of it as training for big walling, where it's common to bring up a tag line as well as the rope you're climbing on.

Pull the top rope to the side and lower of the last quick draw before the anchor. That way the ropes are never close to each other. The top ropes should revert to being through both the screw and snapgate to account for the risk of someone forgetting to screw up the biner. 

2 ropes should never be touching as rope can burn and cut through the rope in seconds. 

The only way to make it simpler would be to separate lead and top rope walls. 

But the point is that you know how to do it (I too would clip it to the back of my harness).

My view is that I don't trust people to do it properly other than the wall staff because I don't know that they'll, for example, remember to screw it in, and if I'm top-roping I can't see if it is all correct until I get to it.

The best setup is to swap the hangers so you have two separate ones, one with a maillon to put the toprope through and a separate one with either a screwgate or two back-to-back snapgates for those wishing to lead.  Most walls have that these days in my observation.

That's a fair point.

But I guess it's slightly mitigated by the fact that you can normally see if the rope is through one or both biners, and as long as it's through both and they're opposed (which presumably they would be as they're set to be like that by the wall) it's not vital that the screwgate is done up on one of them. 

After all, I'm happy enough to top rope off a couple of quickdraws outside...  

I do agree with your point though that it could be an area of concern if done wrongly... However I guess I would prefer that  risk to the faff of having to deal with the top rope being in the way whilst I'm leading a route.  But then that's probably because I rarely top rope and would prefer to lead...  I'd probably feel differently if I mainly top roped!

I suspect, to be fair to you, that the reason walls increasingly like opposed snapgates over screwgates is because you can, as you say, see from the bottom if the rope is through both or not, whereas seeing if a screwgate is screwed in can be a lot harder.

I too am equally happy with opposed snapgates vs. screwgates for top-roping from a safety point of view.

The other reason is that when leading, if the last move is sketchy and the wall is not such that you can grab the top, a screwed-in screwgate can be the last thing you want to find when you get there

I haaaaaaate leading a route getting to the top super pumped and finding a done up screwgate up there, have turned the air blue on finding this!

My local wall used to have a policy of taking down the top rope if you wanted to lead. I worked out a way of tying my lead rope to their rope so that I could pull their rope back through the crabs, so I didn't have to climb with it trailing behind me. It worked nearly all the time, only getting stuck if it was the last route of the evening, I was knackered and they were hassling us to leave.

Then they changed their policy to leave their rope up and pull it to one side, which I'm not so keen on as you can never completely stop it getting in the way.

Can be useful to have a sling larksfooted onto your belay loop and clipped to a gear loop, so you can clip that if you find the gate screwed tight and then sort the gate out - assuming there isn't a snap gate as an initial clip.

or a quickdraw

Or just let go. Might be considered polite to warn your belayer first.

Short sling might be a more usable length than a QD, that's all.

Can't be bothered to turn into one of those people you see at the wall with all sorts of gear attached to their harness (as an aside, who do people do this??  What on earth are they going to need a prussic for at a climbing wall?) I'll just stick to my usual method - swearing, cursing the person who did the gate up, shouting down "Right, I'm considering this done!" grabbing the jug/chain/top of wall and undoing the gate holding on to that.

No biggie, but it does rather taint the joy of finishing a hard route!

clip the q-d into the screwgate lower-off and your rope into the q-d  - don't use it as a lanyard. 

added benefit of weighting the screwgate which make it easier to undo

Aren't you then in some why responsible for making sure the top rope is "installed" correctly.

My belay device and prusik loops never come off of my harness. Them being there is neither here nor there to my climbing abilities - but it's really quite annoying to arrive at a sea cliff and find that said prusik loops are still in the bag I took to the wall.

Yes, of course. This was discussed upthread.

I'm the opposite - I take anything off my harness that doesn't need to be there at the time.

For example, if I'm redpointing a sport route and the draws are already in I'll take absolutely everything off it.  Not because it affects my climbing ability (let's face it, I'm not at the level where tiny amounts of weight are going to make any difference!) but because I just like the feeling of feeling free of having a load of crap I don't need hanging off me and jangling about!

Who reads all the thread?

But then how are you going to let the rest of the people at the wall know that you also trad climb on sea cliffs? 

🙄

Ha!