UKC

Apologies to those who have replied to a similar recent thread like this recently, but my question is a bit different and I didn't want to hijack that thread. As background I'm a 58 year old road biker doing 40-60 miles once or twice a week and the odd longer sportive. I've been riding a basic Cannondale Synapse (Al body, carbon forks, Claris groupset) for about 10 years and its pretty much had it.....bottom bracket is going, plus a few other niggles. I'm not getting any younger and would like to feel a bit more comfortable out on the bike and hopefully do a bit more in retirement soon. 

I'd like to upgrade and have been told/read that the main things to improve comfort are:-

- full carbon frame

- decent wheels (eg Hunt carbons)

- tubeless tyres (this one seems more controversial) 

My budget is £1500-£2000 and it seems, from what I've seen I can't have all the above for that, so what would you recommend:-

- buy an old-ish full carbon bike second hand and upgrade the wheels (risky perhaps?)

- buy a new carbon bike and forget about upgrading the wheels for bit

- buy a decent spec Al/Carbon fork bike and upgrade the wheels (eg Decathlon Triban RC500 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/road-bike-triban-rc-500-disc-brake/_/R-p-3080...

I've been really struggling with this and getting a lot of conflicting advice so any help really appreciated. Thanks in advance.

IMHO (for what it's worth)...

Frame material is largely irrelevant, I went from a SuperSix on 25mm tyres to a CAAD12 on 28mm tyres and the CAAD is more comfortable. Tyres and tyre pressure make far more difference than frame material.

I'm not convinced that carbon wheels help much either over alloys ones. The main thing to look for is for wheels which (a) rely on spokes rather than stiff rims for rigidity, (b) are reasonably wide to make the best of wider tyres. I have Hunt alloy wheels on my 'sensible' bike and they've been great.

I certainly swear by tubeless types for wide tyres (35mm upwards @ 30-40psi), but not so sure for 'roady' tyres (28mm @ 70psi). The main tradeoff is being able to run lower pressure (for more comfort, e.g., 60 instead of 70psi) without risking snake-bite punctures against considerably more faff in term of maintenance. If you don't fancy the faff then stick to tubes.

Personally in your position, I would get an bike (don't much care about material) which can take wider tyres (at least 28mm, preferrably 32-38mm). Oh and decent tyres like GP5000 will be much nicer than cheap ones.

One other thought: The 'point' of carbon wheels is to allow deep rims (e.g., 50mm) for better aerodynamics without adding a lot of weight. Deep rim and 'comfort' don't generally go well together, so a shallow rimmed alloy wheel with a decent spoke count (e.g., 28) will tend to be best for comfort (although tyres & pressure is the no.1 factor).

If you haven't already, I'd maybe start with a bike fit to see what's the best geometry for what you want and go from there - frame material is debatable, given modern manufacturing techniques and carbon isn't really very "green".

Rather than tubeless, you could consider some nice supple tyres with latex tubes to give you a nicer ride.

Good luck.

I had a 2009 Synapse Tiagra. I liked it, although after treating myself to carbon / Dura Ace bike, it felt a bit heavy and the gear changes a bit agricultural. I put some 28mm tires on it and used it as a Winter bike and enjoy that as well, until I sold it to a mate who needed something reasonable on a budget.

I don’t think the extra thousands spent on the carbon bike increased comfort, in part at least because Cannondale are very good at Aluminium frames. A new version of your existing bike, with an upgraded drive train and some decent 28mm tires would probably give you what you want. Spending less than £500 on some nice aluminium wheels, will knock a chunk of weight off the bike in the right place as well.

re. compliance- have you ridden a steel bike?

Good advice to get a fitting to see what type of geometry would be best suited for you....I'm a year younger than you but am thinking of a new bike with a more forgiving position than my current race geometry road bike...

For your budget you could get something pretty nice, especially if you go to the top end.

I'd go carbon, something that can take a 28mm tyre and has reasonable groupset such as 105 and discs....I reckon that's well possible in your budget.

Ribble, Planet X and Dolan are the obvious contenders for good value....

Yes, used to have one.

I watched an engineer’s video that busted the myth of steel bikes being more compliant. As I recall, it’s just that they’re heavier. If you made an aluminium bike as heavy it would be as compliant. Anyway, I think the tyres (some are far more supple than others) and the tubes and pressures are way more important. For the OP - bike fit, tyres/tubes and decent clothing will improve comfort more than a whole new bike IMO (unless your bike is completely the wrong size of course). 

tyres make more difference than frame?

Frame material? Yes, absolutely. 

The other thing to touch on is that 'comfort' (particularly 'lack of') means different things to different people. We should have asked "What do you mean by comfort?" It could be a geometry issue (back/neck pain, numb hands) or a saddle/shorts issue (sore nether regions) or vibration (combination of the above) and so on and so on. All too easy to provide a good solution to the wrong problem!

GT have discovered that floating seatstays are the way to go for maximum compliance- i'm tempted to upgrade my mk 1 Grade..

youtube.com/watch?v=VO5oxJT6tpU&

IMHO.

Carbon wheels are not the answer to everything.

The bits you use all the time are gears and brakes, saddle and bars, pedals and shoes.

Get all of those in the right places and of the right quality and life will get better.

105 minimum.  ENVE bar tape. Fabric saddle for value for money

Get a bike that is the right shape for you and made for the sort of riding that you do - top end alloy or lower end carbon - the difference in frame weight is not a lot.

Have a look at Decathlon - Ultegra, alloy frame for £1500, or £1200 with 105 .

At either of those price points, you could get some wheels built with Chris King hubs and DT Swiss rims.  Those would cost you £1000, but the hubs would last forever and you could sell the new wheels. When the rims wear out it's about £70/rim and £70 for a build.  Or keep the original wheels for winter...

and 105 maximum. There's really no reason to get anything else these days (R7000). I have 105 and Dura-Ace (mechanical) and the difference is really, really marginal.

what's the reason for 105 over tiagra?

Very little - I was positing 105 as a 'max' spec. For me I like it that my road bikes are 11 speed so I can swap wheels and (more often) cassettes around. I certainly wouldn't NOT buy a bike just because it had Tiagra,

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/gt-grade-expert-gravel-bike-2022

I'd mostly agree on the shifting, but Dura-ace brakes are rather lovely (bearings rather than bushes).  However, I'm a rim brakes and cables Luddite (although my commuter is 105 disc).  

Comparing my Dura-Ace and slightly newer 105 bikes, I’d say the difference in shifting is noticeable, braking on the 105 is disc, so can’t compare, but the Dura-Ace rim brakes are massively better than the brakes on my old Tiagra bike.

Apologies for being blunt, but this is garbage.

Back to the OP, see if you can find a second hand Trek Domane carbon in your price bracket.  'tis a thing of wonder.

Got a virtually unused Trek Emonda SLR on eBay with ultegra for £1200. Also original receipt so there are bargains out there. I’d get a decent bike frame , you can upgrade wheels and  components later, but decent frame is well worth it.

My experience is based in disc brakes on both DA and 105, so may well differ from yours.

That at least is obviously subjective. When I was looking for a new bike after my SuperSix got smashed by a careless driver I spent some time with a carbon Domane. Expected to like it, but found it smooth, but lifeless and boring. The CAAD was just so much more fun to ride. 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting the OP should buy a CAAD, simply that the choice shouldn't be governed by the frame material. There are excellent (and comfortable) bikes made from CF, steel, aluminium alloys and (I suspect, but have no experience of) titanium.

One of my other bikes is a cervelo R5 which is a wonderful bike, I love it. Dunno what size you are but there looks to be a nice 2018 model with carbon wheels on eBay at moment for just under £3k , if it’s the right size it might be worth an offer 

Yep, good points. I love the Domane because it is so comfy, but on the few rides I did when I was putting down a little bit of power, it flexed like mad.

Good for mellow comfort, not for racing perhaps