UKC

Dear all, 

I know that there´s been a number of discussions about belay parkas here, I just wanted to see if there are any news on products or what your current recommendations would be since I lost track of the topic.

What I need is a super warm jacket to use either during belaying, hiking or at camp. With a hood and a full-length zip at the front for easier thermo regulation.

For a small size when compressed, down would be the natural choice, but I do have down jackets and find them in many situations too susceptible to moisture - especially in rainy weather when I am sweating like a dog under my goretex. So 100% plastic is the way to go.

Do let me know what you wear yourself or what you would recommend.

I am a bit unsure about the thickness. I do have lightweight medium-thick layers and are dreaming of something I can throw on top of me when cold or exhausted and what will instantly give me maximum warmth and cosiness. However, my super warm winter down parka already has the size of a mid-weight sleeping bag. A plastic insulation parka would be even bigger in size and volume and, naturally, I don´t want to drag an extra haulbag just for my belay parka....

Any hints welcome!

Thanks!

Chris

In reply to Chris33:

Sounds like you want the moon on a stick. 😀

In reply to DaveHK:

yes, but with a full-length zipper please

In reply to Chris33:

ME Fitzroy, or citadel if you want extra weight/warmth/bulk.

In reply to Chris33:

The Mountain Equipment Prophet jacket seems to fit your requirements? Not sure if it’s still on sale anywhere but it is an amazing synthetic insulated jacket with a decent level of waterproofing and was plenty warm enough for belaying while ice climbing in Cogne just pre-Covid, (with appropriate layering underneath. Fairly small pack size/weight too.  

In reply to Chris33:

Have you looked at the Paramo Torres Alturo ? Paramo says that it's designed to go on top of everything else, even a wet hard shell - kinda insulator-of-last-resort. That's what I bought it for, and so far, it's been super. Though I can't use it when active - gets too darn hot.

It's pricey, though occasionally Paramo sells seconds at big discounts - that's how I got mine.

It's quite light weight and packs small-ish if one really squishes it. I don't. Hood fits over my helmet and double ended zip very useful.

Back at the beginning of covid, I snagged a Snugpak Ebony jacket for the same purpose. But turned out way too heavy and not really compressible. So just sees use walking the dog.

Good luck with your hunt for the best jacket - I'll follow this thread with interest.

In reply to Chris33:

There is a lot of chewing about belay jackets. They are an over marketed, branded version of the quilted nylon coat you mum sent you to school in.

If you are using it for climbing rather than posing, best advice is to buy as cheap as possible. The jacket will highly likely end up being worn for climbing, get caught on gear and end up in tatters very swiftly, especially if you plan on using it for winter stuff.

Don't get lost in specs, materials, etc. Get the cheapest you can find and a roll of gaffa tape.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

PW going climbing:

In reply to Chris33:

I'm pretty fond of the below and having tried one on and tempted to get one this winter (providing it gets cold!!!)

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/product/belay-parka-mens/?color...

they did have some on sale at Depot Manchester as well!

Very comfy jacket.

In reply to Chris33:

The Arc'teryx Nuclei or Nuclei SV are what you are looking for.

Very small pack size, excellent warmth, fully synthetic and decent in damp conditions. 

Since I've owned a Nuclei I've sold all my other down jackets (Patagonia Fitz Roy, Haglofs Micro Nordic and Rab Microlight) because using the Nuclei was preferable to all of them. 

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

Can't recommend them myself. Had one to test and it is really not very warm considering the weight and bulk. 

In reply to Chris33:

Montane Flux Jacket is going for half price on sportsshoes.com at the moment (£79.99) bargain!

https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/mon2132/montane-flux-jacket/?_cur=1&...

In reply to MischaHY:

That is sad news but thanks for letting me know! 

Crossing it off the list.

In reply to Chris33: I got one of these in a deal and can't complain https://www.norrona.com/nb-NO/produkter/trollveggen/trollveggen-primaloft10..... works well enough, and has lasted pretty well

In reply to Garethza:

I had a Flux for a bit, never found it warm enough or that great a fit (fit of course being very personal. Sold it in the end and ended up with a Rab (Generator Alpine I think).

In reply to Chris33:

Both myself and wife use 2 each. We both use a Montane Prism for fast active days but if we're on some long belays or very cold ice days I use an ME Fitzroy wheras my wife uses a Patagonia DAS parka.

We only buy at discount so the Prisms were bought at TKMaxx for 45 quid last year to replace our battered old ones and the Patagonia was bought at Needlesports at half price clearout. We've found all jackets to work perfectly well but I think the Patagonia face fabric is too lightweight. All things said, repairs are not hard.

In reply to Chris33:

Although it's jacket rather than a parka I've got one of these https://rab.equipment/uk/valiance-jacket-qdb-49 as my belay jacket and it's absolutely brilliant.  

Very warm, waterproof and windproof.  It is down filled, but they've been clever and filled it with down on the areas that don't get super wet, and non-down insulation on the bits that do like the hood and shoulders.

Come with a stuff sack and packs down to a really quite surprisingly small size.

In reply to Chris33:

I picked up a Rab Photon X on sale in Go Outdoors a few years back and I love it. Full length two-way zip, good pockets, good hood, super warm. It is quite a big beast but it does  compress ok.

Current version is the Generator, I think it has less insulation by weight but maybe of a higher quality.

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

It's a shame because the on-skin comfort is great and it's not too rustly but the windproofing is very poor and generally the insulation seems surprisingly ineffective for the weight/bulk. 

The Nuclei series in comparison is in a completely different league. 

In reply to Chris33:

If I could afford one, a DAS parka - I have one which I bought in 1997 and its still going. It is quite bulky but then I'm pretty sure the technology has moved on a bit since then. Number of times that thing has literally saved my skin...

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

A Fitzroy is my thin one! Worn under my thick one on cold days.

In reply to Chris33:

Ive used the following

Black Diamond - the one listed in the thread

Patagonia - DAS parka, micro and their super breathable one from 5 yrs ago

Fjern - thermoboil thing

Simond - Alpinism

ME - Fitzroy

for long winter belays in soggy cold scotland I do like the FJern but it is a bit bulky, not as bulky as the old DAS

for moving slightly quicker in scotland or for general belaying in colder months I still use the ratty Simond, its put up with tonnes of abuse and still holds up.

I really like my Patagonia stretch nano storm, but it might be discontinued (though still available from e.g. https://www.countryside.co.uk/patagonia/mens-stretch-nano-storm-jacket-wint...

In reply to Robert Durran:

Wow, I run cold but seem to manage fine. Where are you climbing in the winter?

On colder days we wear sometimes wear the belay jackets under our waterproof jackets which seems to kick the heat up.

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

I've all but given up winter climbing partly because I just couldn't keep warm enough without being completely encumbered by clothes (got worse with age). In less than benign conditions my Fitzroy was my sixth of seven layers climbing and then had a properly thick Rab jacket for belays.

In reply to Chris33:

ME Superflux. Down style insulation but it's synthetic, I had an older style Citadel that I sold within a week of having the Superflux. Good fit, two way zip with a popper at the bottom to close off around tie in points, the hood could be better but I can fit it over a hooded helmet and close the zip up fully without it being too tight around my face. I run pretty cold when not moving and I didn't notice any real difference between wearing the two, probably helped by more modern insulation.

For me it was the weight savings and pack size that was the real bonus, almost 500 grams saved between it and the old Citadel so I could have a heavier set of mittens kept in the pockets for belaying with as well and still be below the 800odd grams of the newer version Citadel. 

In reply to Chris33:

Just a heads up that the Rab Generator alpine jacket is on Sportpursuit for £150 at the moment. s/l/xl no mediums.

In reply to Nathan Adam:

The Citadels are weighty jackets, but it's interesting you find the Superflux as warm even though its a lot lighter. It's stitched through beside anything, which I've found in deep cold conditions makes jackets considerably less warm.

Did you size up much to get the hood to go over your helmet and shell hood? The product video doesn't make it look particularly voluminous.

In reply to Chris33:

Many Thanks for all your input. As always a wealth of experience to find here. Be it a specific jacket or a roll of ducktape.

I was checking most of the models on ebay and shops to find some bargain as some of those jackets are rather pricey. I eventually got a Paramo Torres Alturo from Paramo Seconds on ebay. And was bidding on a Snugpak SJ9 but was outbid. Will keep an eye out for this beast, though.

Again, cheers for all the responses. If the Paramo let´s me down I will report back! ;.)

Chris

In reply to TobyA:

I’m not sure what the deal is with why I found them to be similar, maybe the Superflux fits me better than the Citadel did and there’s less cold spots. Or that the older insulation on the Citadel lost some of its loft? The Citadel was second hand whereas the SF was brand new. That said, I’ve never had either really below air temp of -5 celsius as they’ve only ever been used in warm, wet Scotland. 

I wear both in a Large like most of my jackets, the Citadel hood was obviously better but I haven’t been too bothered with the Superflux hood. I like that it’s significantly nicer to climb in as well and isn’t overly bulky so I can still climb relatively hard in it (for me!).

Carrying 500g on my harness instead of 900g was also a good selling point for not feeling much colder either.