UKC

I've just finished reading Max Hasting's exhaustive history of the Vietnam War. Though clearly well researched, I found this quite a difficult read compared to some of his WW2 books. I struggled keeping track of the many names, and without a reference page of the main players involved, I found myself skimming over some of the details.

Any recommendations of good documentaries or films(beyond the usual Hollywood ones) that would help me gain a better understanding of this human tragedy.

The Ken Burns series.

I've read all Hasting's war books but not the Vietnam one. Is it worth it despite your review?

Cheers,

E

To somewhat divert your thread (apologies)

"Despatches" by Michael Herr is a superb contemporary book by someone who was there.

Yes it is worth it. The first part of the book deals with the French, and the disastrous way they tried to cling on to Vietnam, paving the way for the USA's involvement.

I knew very little about that period from 1945 to early 60's. 

Tbh I really liked the Max Hastings book, but listened as an audiobook so possibly a different experience ... I certainly didn't keep track of all the names either though.  

'The Vietnam War' Ken Burns series was good, found the focus on some of the politics really interesting, and could really see how it ended up building  momentum over the years, and hearing about the thoughts and feelings of different people involved was interesting too. However I couldn't help feeling that the range of interviewees was a bit narrow, there was a lot of repetition, and there wasn't enough description of what was actually going on at different points in the conflict - too much reliance on that narrow range of interviewees and the narrative thread felt very high level and a bit detached sometimes for me... Still good though. 

Those have been the only proper educational book / documentaries I've read / seen on Vietnam beyond Hollywood films, cultural references, etc. I think one thing I really appreciated from both was that they gave a bit more insight into what the North was doing, the tactics of the viet cong, and the amount of fighting undertaken by Southern forces. 

I've got 'A bright shining lie' and 'the things they carried' on my list having seen them recommended elsewhere. 

Interested to see what other people recommend. 

Would highly recommend the Ken Burns series and dispatches by Michael Herr

Working Class History have some excellent podcasts on the Vietnam war. 

Ken Burns series is head and shoulders above anything else I have seen.  The setting of the war against the domestic politics was masterful, as was the music used.

On that note I was round at a friend's and pulled down a book called 'Matterhorn' from their bookcase..because you know climbing.  It had a Chinook on the front cover, hello I think.  Turns out it is a novel about Vietnam by one Karl Marlantes...who turns up as a talking head in the Ken Burns series.  It's semi-auto-biographical as Marlantes was there and was bloody good.  Can highly recommend.

Last one is 'Nam' by Mark Baker.  Less lyrical than Despatches but gives a much wider perspective and made me think much harder.

Oh - ok very last one.  "Hell in a Small Place".  The French at Dien Bien Phu.

Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes is excellent.

I'd recommend reading A Rumour of War, The 13th Valley and Chickenhawk, and watching Dear America, Letters from Vietnam.

As already recommended, Chicken Hawk and A Rumour of War are fantastic.

My personal favourites are We Few and Whispers in the Tall Grass

And

The Sorrow of War by Bao Ninh, Fields of Fire by James Webb

Once a warrior king

To bear any burden

It's years since I read Meditations in Green but I don't recall it as being very good.

Steve

+1 for Once a Warrior King

Thankyou, It's recommended as a book on leadership as well.

And for a look at events from the other side: Trương Như Tảng's A Vietcong Memoir.

I also recommend Dispatches; Bright and Shining Lie; Chickenhawk.

And if your interest persists, there is the absolute tragedy of neighbouring Cambodia to explore and understand.

I've read the The Things They Carried - but it must be more than 20 years ago. I remember it was very good, but I'm afraid I don't remember much beyond that.  I've got some knowledge of the Vietnam war, although no expertise - I guess reading books like that has played into that knowledge.

Now I'm trying to think what else I've read down the years...

I have happened to rewatch We Were Soldiers and Platoon recently - I'd seen them both before but not for a long long time. Both are well worth a rewatch if you have Amazon Prime (I think it was) and are interested in Vietnam.

Another book; the last valley by Martin Windrow, it is about the French but gives a good overall explanation about how it all started. I found it a very good read.

'Hearts and Minds' (1974) is good and interviews major political figures involved. Prior to fall off Saigon (1975)

I haven't seen it, ' Year of the Pig' (1968) is highly regarded.

And heartbreaking. 

What a terrible waste of lives. 

Mick 

 >  We Were Soldiers

Is that the Mel Gibson one? I might be thinking of something else, but I thought it was a little distastefully heavy on the slow-mo-gunning-down-of-VCs.

Mind you, Platoon [Spoiler] has the slow-mo gunning down of Elias, I suppose, but that seemed more merited somehow.

It is Mad Mel and it is all rather American but it actually shows the Vietnamese perspective quite fairly, with the NVA commander a full character.

The story is the memoir of the officer Gibson plays so it's is based on real events and I think I read the American commander met and got to know his North Vietnamese opposite number after the war. In the final credits the Vietnamese soldiers who died are remembered along with the Americans, so it is better in those ways than a number of Vietnam films from a generation earlier. 

It was also quite recently that I rewatched Platoon maybe 30 years after I first saw it. In my head I had who was the good sergeant and who was the bad sergeant completely the wrong way round! Very confusing for the first hour! 😀

Another good film is Danger Close, the Battle of Long Tan.  I thought this was really good and highlights the Australian contribution.  Watch in conjunction with a listen to this youtube.com/watch?v=q4osOEHwdmA&

Vietnam: The definitive oral history, told from all sides by Christian G. Appy is also one of the standard textbooks. I did a subject on Vietnam in uni and this was one of the books we had to read. 

The Ken Burns series is excellent, a really good companion to the Max Hastings book and the one I just mentioned. 

And if you want to dive into the subject of guerrilla warfare and why counterinsurgencies are so damn hard to succeed in, anything by David Kilcullen is worth your time. 

 >  it actually shows the Vietnamese perspective quite fairly, with the NVA commander a full character.

I've a feeling I saw it on a plane, and only some of it at that, so maybe I should revisit it for a fairer shake.

I'm not sure why I started watching it again the other week - normally pretty sceptical about Gibson vehicles post the first Mad Max! But it does give some time and characterisation to the Vietnamese soldiers, maybe not what they deserve, but still a lot better than the old line-'em-up, mow-the-down way of treating the "baddies" in older war films. It is also one of those rather gripping war films, like the start of Saving Private Ryan, that really does give those of us who have been lucky enough to never need to fight, some idea of just how terrifying it must be.  No work of art, but not terrible as I perhaps expected it to be!

Coco Schrijber's film First Kill would be my #1 recommendation. It features Michael Herr in interview, among other veterans.

Looks like it's streamable from IDFA: https://www.idfa.nl/en/film/e6597e87-7131-40c0-beaa-4d7c666ae80f/first-kill