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Middle East Football Dilemma

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 veteye 10 Nov 2022

I have a personal divide within me: Part of me says that I should not watch the event coming up in 2 weeks or so, as a protest against the country where it is being held, which has poor relations with many living within its borders; and human rights are slim within the archaic regime.

Part says that I want to watch what could be a good tournament for the English team, and I want to be patriotic.

Do you likewise need to try to decide upon which is the path to take with the upcoming football world cup?

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 65 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

> Part says that I want to watch what could be a good tournament for the English team, and I want to be patriotic.

Objectively it comes down to whether you consider supporting your national football team to be patriotic, whether you consider patriotism to be virtuous and if so, whether you think that virtue offsets whatever you think about Qatar's domestic policies in general and the practices that went into the world cup infrastructure in particular. 

> Do you likewise need to try to decide upon which is the path to take with the upcoming football world cup?

I don't as I'm neither English nor interested in football. Of course I am very proud of my own national team (Scotland) for taking the moral high ground and not qualifying

Post edited at 00:23
 Bottom Clinger 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

Big footie fan here but no dilemma - I simply can’t get enthused. At all. Not just for reasons of oppression, migrant workers etc., but it simply feels wrong. But, that dick-for-brains Qatar football ambassador with his comments..FFS. And Septic Batter admitting they made the wrong decision. It’s a total mess. 

OP veteye 10 Nov 2022
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

What if we got to the semi-finals? Would you start watching at that point?

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In reply to veteye:

> What if we got to the semi-finals? Would you start watching at that point?

That would be a no from me

 Robert Durran 10 Nov 2022
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

> That would be a no from me

The final?

 Ciro 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

I won't be watching any of this sportwashing event.

I like to think I'd have stuck to that principle if Scotland had qualified, but that's easy for me to say because they didn't 😁

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 jonfun21 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

I am not going to watch for the reasons in the first paragraph. 

Kids (7 and 9) school is showing the first match, but it optional if they want to watch - so we have started a conversation about human rights and our views with them but will leave it up to them to decide for this one. 
 

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 wbo2 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye: Hard to build up any enthusiasm for this really, for the reasons others above have used..  

 Ian W 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

I'll probably watch some matches, but the whole tournament feels "false", both from the perspective of where it is being held, and the time of year. It appears only FIFA couldn't see how unsuitable this was at the time the tournament was awarded to Qatar, and nothing has happened in the intervening years to change that, and it is a bit late for Blatter to now come out with his regrets. Holding it mid season just devaues it completely. International tournaments have always been end of season celebrations, and I really don't se any other way of holding them properly.

I hope the tournament is successful and that it can go some way to shine a light on Qatar and its various practices, but my suspicion, given that it has seen fit to pay supporters from each country to act as ambassadors for the event, is that it will be entirely false and confected, and that it will soon fade from memory, and we can all look to North America for the next "proper" world cup.

Post edited at 09:44
 Robert Durran 10 Nov 2022
In reply to wbo2:

> Hard to build up any enthusiasm for this really, for the reasons others above have used..  

Not the same reasons, but remember all the cynicism about the London Olympics and then the eventual massive enthusiasm. I expect a lot of people will put their principles aside if the football is good and England make progress.

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 gravy 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

Watch the football, do not watch the adverts and spend the 5 minutes during the adverts emailing the sponsors to say you'll remember their endorsement of the event in the context of the human rights abuses.

 Rob Parsons 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

> I have a personal divide within me: Part of me says that I should not watch the event coming up in 2 weeks or so, as a protest against the country where it is being held, which has poor relations with many living within its borders; and human rights are slim within the archaic regime.

I think this is ridiculous. If you are seriously concerned about these issues, then you should have had nothing to do with anything related to FIFA since 2010, the year in which it decided that this year's World Cup would be in Qatar. When did the penny drop?

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 Andy Hardy 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

This winter world cup is a right pain. When they hold the final in the summer getting to the crag for a day is dead easy, but the weather is bound to be cack in November.

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In reply to veteye:

FIFA Uncovered - new Netflix documentary. Watched episode 1 last night (The rise of Blatter) - definitely worth watching if you like your footy...I was angry within a few minutes and remained so throughout the episode  

 wynaptomos 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

I’m 58 and have waited all my life to see Wales play in the world cup so I will definitely be watching. However, I always said that if they did qualify that I would go but I have no desire to go to Qatar. So, that is disappointing.

I hope there will be protests made and Fifa will never again grant the world cup to a country with such questionable human rights. Given Fifa’s past history though, I am not holding my breath.

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 Ian W 10 Nov 2022
In reply to wynaptomos:

> I’m 58 and have waited all my life to see Wales play in the world cup so I will definitely be watching. However, I always said that if they did qualify that I would go but I have no desire to go to Qatar. So, that is disappointing.

> I hope there will be protests made and Fifa will never again grant the world cup to a country with such questionable human rights.

and also links to terrorism; for 3 or 4 years from 2017, Qatar was cut off by the rest of the GCC (no sea or air links) due to relations with (mainly) Iran. To upset the Saudis especially on this front must take some doing. Relations were only normalised in 2021, and it appears Qatar didnt have to make many concessions; they still have full diplomatic relations with Iran amongst others....

 timjones 10 Nov 2022
In reply to gravy:

> Watch the football, do not watch the adverts and spend the 5 minutes during the adverts emailing the sponsors to say you'll remember their endorsement of the event in the context of the human rights abuses.

Is this humour or just two faced self delusion?

 gravy 10 Nov 2022
In reply to timjones:

I'm under no illusion that Qatar is worried about this or that it acts to compensate for the abuses if that is what you mean...

 RBonney 10 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

I began boycotting the companies that are sponsoring when it was announced. The ones that might actually effect me are Coca cola and Macdonalds. The boycott hasn't been very hard. Unfortunately visa have sponsored the world cup too. They're harder to boycott. But I was pleased when my monzo card came and was a mastercard. 

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 Bottom Clinger 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

I might do.  

In reply to Robert Durran:

> The final?

I think I really would have to say no. There are no possible excuses for the tournament to be based in such a place.

OP veteye 10 Nov 2022
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

I appreciate your decision. I have not made my mind up yet, as I truly want to support our team. I am very patriotic, for the people in the team and for GS: But should our organisations have stopped us going in the first place. I want to have Qatar realising in real terms that they must not continue in their horrible ways, and stop not only now, but in perpetuity.

I still have a glow from the alternative approach to football; that of watching every match of our women's team heading to the winning of the European cup. Maybe I should just rewatch some of those matches.

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 Scarab 10 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

If you have no problems buying British brands making their products using Chinese prison labour in Xinjang, then you should have no problems watching the games. I am not an apologist for their regime. I just find it astounding when people in the west criticize how Gulf countries treat their guest workers, but at the same time our products are made in even worse conditions.

OP veteye 11 Nov 2022
In reply to Scarab:

How do you distinguish the good and the bad in China, and elsewhere then? For instance, you must have used Chinese made lateral flow tests for Covid-19 evaluation.

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 Billhook 11 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

Don't watch it.  Bur how will  Qatar  notice your protest?

 timjones 11 Nov 2022
In reply to gravy:

Do you really think that chastising advertisers can compensate for your own support for the event?

 timjones 11 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

> Part says that I want to watch what could be a good tournament for the English team, and I want to be patriotic.

Patriotism is s state of mind, you can be patriotic without watching any sports.

 Robert Durran 11 Nov 2022
In reply to timjones:

> Do you really think that chastising advertisers can compensate for your own support for the event?

My guess is that it might compensate many times over. What actual difference is one person switching off the TV going to make to anything?

 knighty 11 Nov 2022
In reply to timjones:

Are you supporting an event if you are not spending any money to see it? Equally, you can support your team without agreeing with the event.

No one knows whether you are watching it or not, unless you are streaming direct through the broadcaster's website. The only way TV figures are impacted would be if the people who have their TV watching habits measured would not watch the WC and the loss of viewers was extrapolated across the UK.

Personally, I'll be watching the WC, and mentally noting key sponsors and advertisers with the aim to avoid future custom.

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In reply to veteye:

The Women’s European Championship was tremendous and really great entertaining football. At the other end of the spectrum is David Beckham trousering wads of cash to advertise how great Qatar is. Equality, human rights just getting thrown under the bus. 

 gravy 11 Nov 2022
In reply to timjones:

Where did I say I supported the event?  Football is, for me, an opportunity for a beautifully quiet visit to a crag.

In reply to Robert Durran:

> My guess is that it might compensate many times over. What actual difference is one person switching off the TV going to make to anything?

To the grand scheme of things, no difference at all. To the individual knowing that they did the right thing irrespective, a great deal.

 Robert Durran 11 Nov 2022
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

> To the grand scheme of things, no difference at all. To the individual knowing that they did the right thing irrespective, a great deal.

Sorry, but this seems entirely irrational to me. I can get people not watching because they are not interested in a WC held in Qatar, but not because it is the "right thing" despite making zero difference.

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 timjones 11 Nov 2022
In reply to knighty:

They will know that you have ignored the event if you tell them.

You only need to write one letter the impact will be greater because it can be delivered directly to those that make the decisions.

 timjones 11 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

Thr suggestion appeared to be thar it was possible to make an impact by watching the football and not watching the adverts whilst writing to the advertisers.

Surely you can make a greater impact by not even bothering to switch the telly on and writing to the bodies that ha e organised the event?

Less work and a greater impact, everyone wins

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 FactorXXX 11 Nov 2022
In reply to gravy:

> Watch the football, do not watch the adverts and spend the 5 minutes during the adverts emailing the sponsors to say you'll remember their endorsement of the event in the context of the human rights abuses.

"I watched the football with great delight and am emailing you to say how disgusting I am with you that you sponsered it". 

 65 11 Nov 2022
In reply to gravy:

> Football is, for me, an opportunity for a beautifully quiet visit to a crag.

Big football matches are also brilliant for road biking.

 Bottom Clinger 11 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

If viewer numbers plummeted this would impact on how much cash the TV companies would be prepared to give to FIFA. This would hopefully influence their decision making for future host countries. 

OP veteye 11 Nov 2022
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

Agreed.

 Maggot 11 Nov 2022
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

I've always wondered how they work out viewing figures. If they did actually plummet,  I doubt very much that we'd ever know!

 Rob Parsons 12 Nov 2022
In reply to Maggot:

W> I've always wondered how they work out viewing figures. If they did actually plummet,  I doubt very much that we'd ever know!

The answer is incredibly banal: see e.g. https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/entertainment/how-do-uk-tv-viewing-figures-an...

So nobody will know anything about Mr Veteye's silent protest.

More productive for Mr Veteye would be to realize that the only practical levers he has are his personal economic ones. He should permanently boycott anything to do with organizations and companies of whose operations he disapproves, and he should inform them that he is doing so. The rest is just feel-good angst.

OP veteye 12 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

So Rob to Rob,

My problem is that so far, I do not know who the sponsors of the football event are. I understand your logic, but I may still not watch out of a sense of loyalty to reasonable ethics. So possibly we should have a listing of those who should be boycotted on the basis of their sponsorship on the forum somewhere (?).

Rob

 Rob Parsons 12 Nov 2022
In reply to veteye:

You can easily Google for a list of official sponsors.

Of course, the main thing you need to boycott is anything associated with the FA, since they are complicit in all this. So that's the end of football for you.

 Bottom Clinger 12 Nov 2022
In reply to The Thread:

Today is the last group of Prem league Saturday fixtures until New Years Eve !  Wrong I tell you, plain wrong. 

 Babika 13 Nov 2022
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

> Today is the last group of Prem league Saturday fixtures until New Years Eve !  Wrong I tell you, plain wrong. 

Particulately wrong as my lot lost. Grrrrr. Ps am off to Qatar next week. My protest will be not wearing any sort of headscarf and having long hair unfettered at the Iran match. I might even hold hands with my partner. I'll let you know how I get on. 

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