UKC

I'm looking for any reporting of persons inverting in a sit harness and falling out of or almost falling out of? (climbingmountaineering, rope access, at height leisure e.g. ropes coures, rescue...whatever). TIA

Probably about 15 years ago now, climbing with a friend at Hutton Roof Crags. He was sporting a shiny new harness, bought at a very good price, but it didn't quite fit! Just a bit loose around the waist, even with a jacket on. He was convinced it was fine. He fell off a route with a small overhang at its base, put his legs out to absorb the impact with the rock but there was no rock just overhang. He inverted. This was concerning as his head was only about 3 feet off the deck, what was more concerning was that this gap was getting smaller as the harness slowly released him. He was wearing a helmet, always has done. We quickly realised what was happening and righted him. All was well in the end. No harm. He considered a high calorie diet so he would eventually fit into the new harness, but decided to retire it instead. 

There was an article on here a few years ago by a woman who had partially fallen out of a badly fitting harness whilst sport climbing at Malham (I think), possibly written from her hospital bed if I remember correctly? Perhaps you could do a site search for that.

They didn’t fall out of the harness, they inverted.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2017/08/mina_leslie-wujastyk_-_harnesses_he...

You beat me to it!

She says in the article that the harness being too big caused her to invert while a correctly fitting one would have held her more upright. 

Wasn't it something to do with a badly fitting harnes though?

I can't remember exactly, it was a few years ago.

to the OP: There might be something useful in this thread

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/has_a_zip_lock_harness_buckle_ever_f...

Alos, there was also a problem with a Blue Ice harness which could potentially go very slack causing inversions if the rope got caught under the buckle. The problem relates to pull tight style buckles rather than the older style of thread back buckles.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/blue-ice-choucas-harness-advice

I have seen some people in harnesses where I have wondered how they don't invert and whether they would slip out of they did (men with big bellies and harness sitting under the belly), but never actually seen it happen.

I inverted and slipped out of a harness that was about two sizes too big for me when I was drunken aerial sock wrestling a few years ago. Not sure that that's a useful data point for you though.

Hasn't actually happened to my, but I had a harness that was a bit too big for me - emergency purchase on a trip after the airline lost my luggage - and was worried that I could. I actually took a big upside down & backward fall in it after breaking a handhold, and was fine, but couldn't shift the doubt at the back of my mind & ended up replacing it.

This is something that is often in my mind on steep routes, my harness is fine, but I’d like it to be tighter but annoyingly it’s a medium and the small size is much to small for me. 

Here's another thread about the Blue Ice harness issue

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/blue_ice_choucas_harness_-_buckle_re...?

and here's a video of the problem

youtube.com/watch?v=u4kG5ba5sTI&

Not falling  but I do recall being absolutely flabbergasted and terrified watching a properly attached harness undo itself at the climbing wall one day.

The guy climbing was a well built chap. He called over to me as he was hanging in the rope and said the harness was coming undone.  I ignored him for a while as he was clearly talking bollocks.

But then I went over and watched. It was totally surreal. The "tape" ends were just slowly sliding through the buckle.  He was only 1.5m off the floor at this stage, but it was horrifying to watch.

I told the centre manager that if I ever saw the harness again I'd cut it into pieces.  Looking back I should have sent it to the BMC or someone.

(Troll in case anyone wants to know.[ the harness, not this post])

We saw a harness falling off a leader once. We were on a route to the left. He was on the steep ice pitch of Central Gully Great End, just getting to the steepest bit, teetering up.

As he stepped up with axes planted well above, the harness dropped down to his knees.

Think about it, how do you get out of that? Solo I guess with legs close together? I think he nearly sh1t himself.

DC

About 30 years ago, winter climbing in Alpe D’Huez, didn’t re-thread the buckle on my Whillans harness and harness slipped down as I climbed. Totally my fault and very frightening 

Inverted "Pat Littlejohn" Harness if I remember rightly https://crankitupgear.blogspot.com/2017/03/top-to-bottom-on-central-grooves...

Not rethreaded and/or way past retirement age?

My backside is too fat for it to come off and I don't tend to invert anyway as I have very heavy legs.  For kids or people who are particularly skinny, you can get add-on chest harnesses which also raise the centre of gravity a bit, a lot of Scout walls use them at least.

When I worked in a gear shop years ago, I had a customer return a Petzl harness as he had found that the buckles slowly worked loose when he walked in it and he had to keep re-tightening them.

Can't remember the model, maybe a Corax.

I've always been suspicious of the self-locking buckles - I'm desperately clinging onto my WC Synchro harnesses with back-thread buckles for this reason.

Went shopping just yesterday as it happens for a harness for my 5 year old. With the harness on fairly snug, there was nothing to stop is slipping down with a bit of force and a slight juggle.

Went an ordered a full body harness online as we couldn't get one in store.

I'm now of the view that you shouldn't be selling harnesses unless you also offer full body harnesses (especially in kids sizes). It would be very easy for the next family to walk in, and buy the only harness that would fit their kid.

Ta for replies ...The take home is, I guess ? (caveat data= UKC annecdotes but pretty much what might be expected)...No evidence/(hi)stories of sit harnesses emptying contents but...
1. a correctly sized and fitted sit harness and  snugged up over the illiac/pelvic crest will keep its contents intact if climber inverts, and (probably) reduces risk of inversion...
2. thread back buckles have a vulnerability in operator error, cinch buckles can work loose (my preference is to keep with my threadback for this reason esp. for longer routes/ winter)
3. little people (or those without a well defined pelvic crest) might feel safer/benefit from a supplemental chest harness where there is a chance they might invert...
 

A sit harness coupled with a separate chest harness is also fine for a kid, and are far more flexible in terms of fit (a DMM Centre Alpine plus their chest harness will fit anyone from a 4 year old to a reasonably sized adult, for instance).

Shops can sell what they like, but absolutely should be advising they have nothing suitable for a kid* rather than trying to sell something that could slip down easily.  Even if a self service shop they should ask questions at the till.

* I was going to say skinny kid, but from experience it's podgy kids who can be more of an issue, as the harness often slips down off their gut when they move, but if you put it on tight under their gut (as I do with mine, as I'm podgy too) they often don't have a big enough backside vs. waist for it not to slip down, plus that can be too low with kids' typically short legs to prevent them inverting every time they fall, unlike an adult who will generally have longer and heavier legs.

Sounds about right.

Why?

Nope, neither. 

In fact the opposite. It was so new and shiny that there wasn't enough friction between the straps and the buckle.

Happened to me when abseiling at Chair Ladder. Prusik knot jammed below a sizable overhang, and in my struggle to free it I inverted and slowly was slipping out of my harness, a BD. I managed to get my climbing partner to throw me another prusik and I  extricated myself.

There seems to be some issues with the new style orange webbing on petzl caving harnesses being quite slippery. These are proper buckles too, double-backed on themselves with another layer of protective webbing & TPU over the top of that through the buckle.

Some details here : 

https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/new-avanti-leg-loops-slipping.... 

It must be 20 years old now? Oddly, I found my old one in a bag recently and spent a cathartic 20 minutes with a sharp knife and then a strong needle and thread turning it into a belt. I don't bother doubling back the buckle when it's just my jeans staying up that I'm relying on it for.

Petzl's current range of industrial harnesses have a fault like this too. The plug-style buckles work fine but the length adjusters slowly come undone if you're moving about in it all day. You end up with the leg loops hanging down by your knees which can be a trip hazard. I've used Petzl Volt or equivalent for a number of years but won't be buying another one.

I'm following this with interest and some alarm, having also read the old Blue Ice threads and the BMC statement. I haven't donned a harness for a long time and never gave a second thought to either of the old (c.95 and 03) BD harnesses I own. I had been looking at a Choucas as a lightweight winter/Cuillin/ski touring harness but I have less confidence in almost everything now.