UKC

Hello All,

Seeking some advice on where best to go in Spain for a moderate punter like myself.  Will be climbing from mid-March to around mid-April, will have a van and all that.  I have done fairly limited sport climbing, all in Scotland, and onsight 6b/+.  6c I can usually manage with a few tries.  

The idea is not to push my redpointing grade, but to get lots of mileage in as prep for the trad season.  Would obviously not be averse taking a stab at something in the low 7s either.

Was thinking that Chulilla seemed a potential, but reading some old threads I get the idea that it might not be ideal for someone who's not already solid at 6c/7a?

Cheers, Phil

We did a bunch quite a few years ago in Costa Blanca, and there was more than enough climbing at those grades... Especially if you're also capable of venturing onto trad routes..

I've also heard good things about Montserrat, but as I've only dabbed on the more adventurous climbs there... well lets just say that perhaps those longer and older lines adventure stuff might not be for everyone's taste.

 

Margalef?

Siurana is a beautiful place to climb. It would be my preference over the other Spanish venues I've climbed at i.e. El Chorro, Costa Blanca & Margalef

Pushing into 7a, Viagraman and Es algo aren't the toughest at the grade.

Blimey! 6c and 7a rated as moderate now. 

Thanks for the suggestions, very much appreciated.  Part of me wants to steer clear of the marquee spots, bc that's just the way I am, but perhaps as a first time it's not a bad shout to see what they're like.  My assumption is that at the lower grades they'd be busy/polished, but I'll freely admit I simply don't know...

6c/7a is at the very top for me as I said, not mileage grades.  6a+/b is my comfort zone, and yeah, that's pretty moderate I'd say!

Will have a look at Montserrat...  was there 20 odd years ago as a tourist, remember it being quite a place.

Between Siurana Valley crags and Siurana Village crags you are looking at over 200 routes at 6a-6b.

10 a day, 50 a week, 200 in the month.  

Those figures may have to be adjusted depending on how good the local wine is...

Sounds pretty ideal though, thanks again for the input!

I'm allowing you two days off a week for wine.  

Between Siurana, Arboli, Margalef and the Lleida area crags you’ll have enough to go at for months. I’ve done maybe a dozen trips to these areas and I’m looking forward to the next. I don’t know why you’d want to give these crags a miss, they are some of the best of their type in the world.

It might be getting a bit warm by the end of your trip but you can always seek shade or go a bit higher. This area is much more scenic than the Costa Blanca, which is an over urbanised area even if it is blessed with very stable weather. 

Chulilla is good, a little more limited at the grades you mention but more than enough to keep you going for a week or two. I’ve only been at New Year and it’s fine so imagine it’s a tad warm by April. 

 

If anything it's a bit overwhelming given all the choices, so it's great to hear from folks and get an idea of what places are actually like.  

For what it's worth, I think avoiding big name spots comes from years of surfing to get away from crowds and the hassle.  Have to remember climbing is quite a bit different in that regard.  So thanks for the perspective, I think Siurana sounds perfect.

Camarasa (Lleida).

You'd be hard pressed to find a better and bigger selection of vertical 6th grade climbs in such a compact area anywhere in the country, plus a choice of orientations to suit all weather conditions.

Pete.

I assumed those would be for sleeping and skin grafts

Indeed: if you don't know the Siurana, Arboli, Mussara, etc area, go there

Had a great day at Mont-ral N facing last September

Vast amounts of choice and easy to avoid the crowds

I see POD replied and he knows more than most

Nice one Pete.  Seankenny mentioned Lleida as well and tbh it's a new one to me.  Couple weeks at one and couple at another should be sweet.  

Again, thanks for the recs, look forward to following them up... very much appreciated!

Hi Phil 

We've averaged a month or two each year in Spain for the last decade, and operating mostly in the 6a to 7a range, so hopefully can offer some useful advice. I don't think you'd be disappointed or run out of stuff in any of the "major" centres eg Lleida, Tarragona, Costa Blanca or El Chorro (as others have suggested I'd favour the first two). As for avoiding crowds and polish, there are plenty of new / off-the-beaten-track crags at all the above. Beta and photos on at least a couple of hundred at https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/category/spain/ 

To chip in somewhere that hasn't been mentioned, how about the "Roca Verde" area around Asturias, Cantabria and Leon - March / April should be a good window. There's a wrap-up of a month's trip here: https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2016/10/22/a-month-of-roca-verde/

Anyway, have a great trip wherever you end up! Cheers, Dom 

Another vote for Camarasa, though we are currently sitting here in our van waiting for the ice to melt 🥶

If you see this in time, anywhere you'd recommend for today, Pete? We were considering Àger and wondering whether it would be above the cloud cover today? 

This is a bit misleading. Yes, the whole coast is a hideous conurbation, but much of the mountainous interior is stunningly beautiful. Having just spent two weeks there based on the coast with tedious daily drives negotiating hundreds of roundabouts and tortuous cyclist-infested roads, I have decided I shall never do so again; any future visits will be by van, stopping at chosen inland crags for a few days.

Also, is the weather really more stable than many other areas? Like anywhere on the coast it can get wet spells (we got two spells of torrential rain). Inland can certainly be very different from the coast and it is worth noting that the south down towards Murcia gets a fraction of the annual rainfall of Gandia in the north.

I was in Chulilla before moving to the Costa Blanca. In comparison, the nice thing about it was that most of the crags are a pleasant walk from the village (I at least felt that every day I had a nice walk rather than a horrible drive before my polished sandbagging!). I found it too hot in the sun even in January and it is worth noting that the more moderate crags tend to be the sunny ones. Most things below 7a at the main shady sectors tend to be polished nightmares used as warm ups (though I expect there are a few exceptions!)

Some Lleida info:

https://climb-europe.com/rockclimbingshop/rock-climbing-spain-lleida

Thanks Dom!  The conclusion I've come to is that more trips will be necessary.  It's overwhelming what there is to do.  My partner likes the Picos and is touting the idea of Galicia, bolted gneiss sea cliffs, which strikes me as both heinous and intriguing.  

Thanks for the link, I will take a look...  I've spent loads of time daydreaming in the past thanks to your blog!

Came across that this morning!  Looks absolutely immense.  Like that there's a mix of trad in the area as well.  Do you know if you need an 80m rope for the area, or can you get by on a 70?

That sounds somewhat horrible, esp the driving.  Did you get on anything good in Chulilla?  What was the van scene like there?  I'm a bit shy about piling in with another van in places that are already under pressure.

Sorry, I've only just seen this...

Yes, although I'm not actually in the country at the moment I've heard that conditions are less than perfect! If you made it up to Àger, let me know how it went. Usually, when low-lying places like Camarasa are fog-bound (typically December/January) the higher crags, especially Àger, can be basking in sunshine. However, I have a feeling that the current cloud cover is pretty-much affecting the whole region and the extra altitude will just make it colder.

Anyway, let me know...

Pete.

Bit of a drive from Camarasa, but last time I spend a winter in Catalonia it seemed you just had to drive past Oliana... it's always sunny in Col de Nargó. 🙂

Yes, just not a very relaxing start and finish to the day.

It seems well set up for vans with an accepted tolerated area for them just outside the village. I found a quieter spot a bit further away. I struggled with injuries in Chulilla, but I think there are better areas for those operating in the 6's, especially if it is hot.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/la_pedriza_anterior-2661

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Yes, you're not missing much weatherwise at the moment.

But the cloud broke up and we've been soaking up the sun on Solarium (along with everyone else in the area) 😎

Glad to have provided a bit of inspiration and great that you've got the chance to put the day dreaming into action!

We've only spent a week or so in Galicia but it's certainly an enchanting place - a good combo with Asturias etc or if you are heading down into Portugal (another highly recommended trip to add to the list). Some Galicia beta here: https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/tag/galicia/

Cheers, Dom 

I just checked the guide and there is a huge amount of climbing possible with a 70. If I’m wrong then I’m sure the actual guidebook writer - who has already posted on this thread - will put me right…!

Abella de la Conca & Collegats (sector Ciné) are a safe bet in the foggy season.

In reply to the OP:

Sector Ciné conglomerate is invaluable for sore fingers - plenty of choice at your grades, same at Abella

Funny enough my partner and I had been mulling over La Pedriza for a while.  I'm (a lot) less keen than her on the runout friction slab situation, but it looks vast with lots of variety, so it's in the mix as well.

Ideal, thanks.  I think I read there's a decathlon in Lleida in case we're finding limitations with 70, but I should be more than challenged with pitches up to 35m.

That seems to be the consensus, think I'll give it a miss this time round.  Good luck with the injuries.

The need for a 40m rope is not so common in the Lleida zone. Notably however needed at Ager Barranc Grillons, where the long pitches are amazing. Also 40m pitches at certain sectors of Alos de Balaguer & St Llorenc conglomerate. But there's plenty to do without.

80m...?

Late to the party but here we go (with a bias towards Catalonia as it's where I live!):

You can never go wrong with Siurana, though it is indeed better at grades above those you're targeting. You can combine it with various crags nearby - Sector El Falcó at Arbolí would be a good day out with several long pitches in the 6s. La Mussara also has lots of quality 6s, though it is quite worn and tired now. La Riba is a bit further away, and also quite an 'old' sector, but has some amazing 6s.

I wouldn't bother with with Margalef - most of the routes in the 6s are rubbish, with some honourable exceptions up at sector Espadelles.

While I have all the respect in the world for Pete (you won't find many with more experience of the area than he!), I dislike Camarasa in the 6s, I find the steeper 7s to be better. Maybe that's just me.

Chulilla is amazing, but as others have mentioned, it gets going properly at 7a. Likewise Rodellar.

Montserrat I would avoid, it has some amazing long adventurous routes winding their way up the north face, but the easier sport climbing gets very repetitive, padding up endless slabs of pebbles, doing the same move over and over again.

The Costa Blanca is an excellent choice - sure, it is horrendously built up, but the climbing in your grade range is excellent. El Chorro also a good suggestion.

What I would strongly recommend though is that you invest in Pete's guidebooks (Tarragona Climbs and Lleida Climbs) - they are by far the best guides to the area and have a lifetime of climbing described within them!

You penetrated my brain fog

I got a chance on a 40m route just today - and delighted to say managed a clean lead. This might not be newsworthy except that months ago on a previous attempt all honour was lost at the last clip - my mates overly burly (12mm ?) rope weighed a ton to pull through and clip - I panicked and grabbed the draw

This might be judged irrelevant to the OPs thread, so I've worked out the tenuous excuse - that he might well be travelling down through the Pyrenees by car, in which case it's not so far off route on the french side. Voila ! another crag/route recommendation:

Suberpene

Été De 90 (6b+)

Tend to agree.....St Llorenc de Montgai is a very worthwhile conglomerate alternative. The 6c/7a routes there seemed to be a bit steeper and more athletic on better holds.

I'm seeing some recommendations for Margalef. I spent two months there last spring and can say categorically that at the grades you climb you should not go there. I climbed up to 7b there and found it to have the most uneven grading I have ever seen. There will be powerful boulder problems to leave the ground that do not get factored into the route grade, so you'll have a V3 or harder boulder problem between you and the first or second bolt on a mid 6 route. Mileage will be difficult because everything is hard, and probably not very relevant to Scottish trad as a lot of the routes are under 20m.

On the other hand it's a great place to push your redpoint grade because of the sheer amount of hard climbing, and a lot of the harder routes are brilliant. You will get much stronger there through exposure.

If you're looking for moderate mileage in Spain I would suggest Costa Blanca, El Chorro, or Chulilla. I've only been to Costa Blanca once when I could barely climb 6a+ and I remember there being a lot to do, I've heard great things about the other two although I do understand they are both as soft as warm butter, although possibly not as soft as Kalymnos.

I went to Margalef in 2018, and can categorically tell the OP 'Go there !' . He will of course be better off for your warnings - absolutely true for the hard starts; I didn't notice the grade variability otherwise. It's not the zone for him to be based for 4wks - but he is in a van and can move.

It's like - you're telling someone not to visit a world class site ! With so much on offer it's unlikely he will not find something of worth. I am fussy - I dislike shorter pitches, rock without features and climbing straight off tarmac. Get up to the higher sectors where sun and scenery meet. I enjoyed climbing at Espadelles, Pesafigues, Chorerras, La Ermita & Culample. Unfortunately some of these are not in POD's book so it helps to have the local comprehensive topo ... or scrounge.

Don't go there 1st off - get plenty of mileage in elsewhere and be ready to graft.

Well, there you go Lee, I thought it was utterly hideous !

I think I'm going to give Margalef, Siurana, and Chulilla a miss this time around.  For good or ill, opinions will vary!  I'd like to do those places justice and be operating at a slightly higher level than I am at the moment.  Been checking out the areas in the Lleida climbs book, and there's so much on offer in and around with lots of variety + the Ariege on the way back.  

There seems to be a lot more in the lower grades to go at, and I'm coming off a period of irregular climbing habits these past couple of years, and not feeling all the way fit and confident.  And in terms of climbing goals this is really about getting up some mileage and strength for some routes I'm really keen to get on in Scotland this spring.  

It is nice to hear all the back and forth and people's opinions though, very much appreciated!

Ceuse is also a world class site but again I'm not sure I'd recommend it to someone whose in a session grade is 6c, despite there being a lot of climbs purportedly in the 6s.

All the Iberian climbing areas mentioned in this thread are well worth visiting, but if you do end up sticking to Lleida and Ariege (France - on the way back north) I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

Having recommended Camarasa, there have been some important changes to parking since the publication of Lleida Climbs 3:

http://www.lleidaclimbs.com/2021/12/camarasa-parking-december-2021.html

Worth remembering that Siurana is 1.5hrs drive from Lleida so it’s not as if you’re massively committed to one or the other exclusively. It’s about the same distance to Col de Nargo - the area covered by the Lleida guide is far more spread out. 

You never found Lolo Cat then, one of Margalef's best kept secrets

Lolo Cat (6b)

Why not? It might not be the first place you'd think of at those grades, but it's a stunning situation to climb in. The hike alone is worth doing and going up the via ferrata for sunset on the plateau is a highly memorable experience. As long as you're honest about the difficult technical climbing at the lower grades, and don't set unrealistic expectations, I'd certainly recommend it across the full grade range.

Besides, Margalef is not Ceuse. Sure there are desperate short 6bs, but I think it's one of the best places I've been to for wide ability range groups. There's plenty lovely long 5s and 6as to go at.

Just finished a week around Camarasa exploring some new crags and old favourites, so I've put together a bit of a roundup of the crags in the area - hope it's useful:

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2023/02/14/camarasa-new-finds-and-old-favo...

Cheers, Dom