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Rope mainly for indoor leading

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Hi 

As many people on here know I am in that process of doing my CWI and Development Coach Award.

At present I don't have a rope that is suitable for indoor leading - the ropes I have are 60m 1/2 ropes designed to be used together. 

Should I buy my own rope or just use other partners ropes?

What ropes do you have for indoor leading?

What do people recommend?

I have been recommended Petzl Volta 9.2mm but I have seen others that are cheaper.

https://bananafingers.co.uk/petzl-volta-9-2mm?countryCode=GB&currency=G...

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/edelrid-boa-gym-98-mm-single-rope/

I have found this review of the Volta 9.2mm

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/ropes/petzl_volta_92mm+volta_guide...

Sav

8
 Neil Williams 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

More or less any 30m single rope (assuming your wall doesn't have 15m+ routes, which most don't) will do the job.  Fancy features not required.  You can pay a little more for a nice handling skinnier rope but you don't need to.

Decathlon do a 25m rope which is nice and cheap, for example, assuming your local wall's lead walls are no higher than about 12m.

Obviously if your local wall does have longer routes you may need to consider 40 or 50m but most walls don't.  It's generally covered in the briefing/check when climbing somewhere for the first time but they'll know if you ask them.

Post edited at 13:32
 CantClimbTom 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

+1 for getting the Decathlon 25m

3
 wbo2 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit: I've got a Bela 40m rope... and I wouldn't go shorter than 40.  There are plenty walls around with >15m height and you need a little spare to trim when it gets hammered. 

For doubters I've never regretted getting a wall rope, and not needing to tow 60's and 70's around indoors

 Oscar Dodd 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

If your going for qualifications, well worth grabbing your own! Maybe use your partners rope sometimes, and your rope other times so you split the wear.

I'd go for something a bit chunkier and cheaper than a petzl volta (unless you plan on using it for mountaineering etc as well). The 9.5mm decathlon ropes are good, as are mammut gym classics, beal karma etc. I'd aim for something in the 9.5mm-9.7mm range - it'll last a bit longer than a skinnier rope, especially as realistically, being an indoor rope, it will be taking many falls every session.

Don't spend a load - I fall off a lot indoors (think a minimum of 10 falls a session, 2-3 times a week), and I wear through my ropes quite fast accordingly. Worth getting something slightly longer than you need (eg if you need a 30m get a 40m) so you can chop the ends off to extend the life a little.

In reply to Neil Williams:

> More or less any 30m single rope (assuming your wall doesn't have 15m+ routes, which most don't) will do the job.  Fancy features not required.  You can pay a little more for a nice handling skinnier rope but you don't need to.

> Decathlon do a 25m rope which is nice and cheap, for example, assuming your local wall's lead walls are no higher than about 12m.

> Obviously if your local wall does have longer routes you may need to consider 40 or 50m but most walls don't.  It's generally covered in the briefing/check when climbing somewhere for the first time but they'll know if you ask them.

I am not how tall the lead walls at The White  Spider are and I do climb in other cities - I did my first lead in The Foundry.

1
In reply to wbo2:

> I've got a Bela 40m rope... and I wouldn't go shorter than 40.  There are plenty walls around with >15m height and you need a little spare to trim when it gets hammered. 

Apparently Kendal Main Wall is 26m high and I do know someone who climbs there regularly.

I found this Beal one on Banana Fingers.

https://bananafingers.co.uk/beal-virus-10-0mm-classic?countryCode=GB¤...

> For doubters I've never regretted getting a wall rope, and not needing to tow 60's and 70's around indoors

Unless you want to use the rope on rock - the guy that suggested the Volta bight the 80m one and cuts the ends off.

Sav 

Post edited at 19:29
2
 BrendanO 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Yes, really useful item. I’d go fat, cheap and short.

My indoor 30m turns out to be handy for a couple of outdoor venues too (N Berwick Law, Benny Beg, and Limekilns), its super portable, and cheap enough that if its knackered I eont talk myself into keeping using it.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

> If your going for qualifications, well worth grabbing your own! Maybe use your partners rope sometimes, and your rope other times so you split the wear.

For now, just CWI and Development Coach. 

> I'd go for something a bit chunkier and cheaper than a petzl volta (unless you plan on using it for mountaineering etc as well). The 9.5mm decathlon ropes are good, as are mammut gym classics, beal karma etc. I'd aim for something in the 9.5mm-9.7mm range - it'll last a bit longer than a skinnier rope, especially as realistically, being an indoor rope, it will be taking many falls every session.

By mountaineering, do you mean scrambling or do you mean alpinism?

https://www.dicksclimbing.com/products/mammut-95-gym-classic?variant=434888...

Beal Karma is has 9.8mm diameter

https://www.beal-planet.com/en/dynamic-ropes/1442-8990-karma-98mm.html 

What if I sport lead on real rock?

> Don't spend a load - I fall off a lot indoors (think a minimum of 10 falls a session, 2-3 times a week), and I wear through my ropes quite fast accordingly. Worth getting something slightly longer than you need (eg if you need a 30m get a 40m) so you can chop the ends off to extend the life a little.

Funnily enough the coach who did thr Dev Coach training I attended bought the 80mm Petzl Volta and he cuts the ends off to extend the life.

Sav

1
 Jenny C 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

If you climb indoors a lot having a dedicated rope will save wear off your expensive outdoor rope. Absolutely you should have your own rope, it's normal to alternate who's you use between sessions.

Personally I'd eco the comments above about going for durability over features, as it will get far heavier use than an outdoor rope. Having a bit of extra length so you can cut the end where it goes soft from repeatedly dogging up routes is also worthwhile.

30m is ok for The Foundry, although personally I would go for 40. But do check as some walls do require longer ropes and insteep overhangs need more than just the vertical height x2.

Rope bags are a worthwhile investment too. That's said, a 40m is an absolute pleasure to coil if you're used to using 80s.

1
 HeMa 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

As others have been saying, you don't need a fancy lightweight rope...

In fact, you need a cheap workhorse which you'll still wear through if you climb a lot.

So rope diameter should be in the 9.7 to 10.3m range. And preferably a big amount of standard drops on the rope. Length, well minimum is 2x climbing wall height plus a few extra meters for knots. But then when the ends get knacked from all the falls on knots, you can't trim the rope.

So I'd prolly go for a 40m rope (unless your wall has 29m high wall, like mine does). In fact, I might look for a bargain 80m rope and then chop it in half, thus getting two indoor ropes. Store the other in a dry, vented place (not too hot or cold either) to be used when you've gone through the first one.

Beal Wallmaster from AlpineTrek (or BergFreunde) is a true indoor workhorse, which can be bought at 40m lenght. I have (still) as our euro limestone rope a Mammut Zopa in 80m lenght, which works out cheaper (if you get the 80m and do  two ropes of it). It is thinner though and less maximum UIAA falls (6 vs 8 for wallmaster). But realistically it is a good cheap rope. Decathlon might also have something like that available.


**note UIAA falls used to rate ropes is something you really don't want to take. So normal ropes are nowhere near that. So you can literally take hundrets of falls  (indoors) without going past the maximum UIAA falls amount.

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/beal-wallmaster-indoor-rope/
https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/mammut-zopa-97-single-rope/ 

 PaulW 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Agree with all the comments, just buy something cheap and cheerful. It won't last forever depending on how much use it gets and how many falls you take.

I understand the idea of buying longer than you need and cutting ends off when those bits wear. You can extend the life of the rope that way. However the other side of that is that you have to spend a little more to buy the rope in the first place, you have to lug around more rope than you need every time and you have to uncoil the extra rope length every single route you climb. None of these things are in any way a big issue but over time this adds up to a lot of extra rope handling. For me at least it isn't worth it, I buy the rope length I need.

 HeMa 06 Mar 2023
In reply to PaulW:

> I understand the idea of buying longer than you need and cutting ends off when those bits wear... None of these things are in any way a big issue but over time this adds up to a lot of extra rope handling. For me at least it isn't worth it, I buy the rope length I need.

Indeed. Esepcially if you get say 50  or 60m rope and your wall is 15m --> you carry and faff around for 20 to 30m (nearly or half of the rope)..

But having say 10m longer rope is like 5 extra pulls and the weight penalty is not big either. But you can then chop two times ~2m from each end and still have a usable length rope... but as said, it is a compromise and everyone is free to pic the options that suits them.

After all, some gyms don't really pay any effort on looking at the ropelines when they set... so your rope is going to wear on the holds when you're lowered --> lot's of wear on it. In such cases the rope will wear out faster as a whole and choppin' the ends doesn't really help at all.

Other gyms do take ropelines into account, so with good indoor belaying technique the ropes pretty much only touches the QDs --> not much wear on the rope. Then majority of the wear comes to the rope ends (knot plus the where the last QD is when you fall), thus having a tad longer rope and choppin' it a bit when the tails get nasty might give you more time/meters per sterling.

Still each to their own.

In reply to BrendanO:

> Yes, really useful item. I’d go fat, cheap and short.

> My indoor 30m turns out to be handy for a couple of outdoor venues too (N Berwick Law, Benny Beg, and Limekilns), its super portable, and cheap enough that if its knackered I eont talk myself into keeping using it.

What is your indoor 30m?

I found this just by searching.

https://www.ekosport.co.uk/petzl-corde-contact-wall-9.8-mm-bleu-30-23-p-V00...

In reply to PaulW:

> Agree with all the comments, just buy something cheap and cheerful. It won't last forever depending on how much use it gets and how many falls you take.

> I understand the idea of buying longer than you need and cutting ends off when those bits wear. You can extend the life of the rope that way. However the other side of that is that you have to spend a little more to buy the rope in the first place, you have to lug around more rope than you need every time and you have to uncoil the extra rope length every single route you climb. None of these things are in any way a big issue but over time this adds up to a lot of extra rope handling. For me at least it isn't worth it, I buy the rope length I need.

What about this beauty?

https://www.mammut.com/uk/en/products/2010-04320-11284/9-9-gym-workhorse-dr...

 Jenny C 06 Mar 2023
In reply to HeMa:

>..... Length, well minimum is 2x climbing wall height plus a few extra meters for knots. 

Awesome Walls Sheffield has a 12m overhang on the competition wall, so you're going to need a lot more than twice the wall height to avoid lowering off the end! 

Everything else you say in the post I agree with.

Suggestion to buy an 80m and cut in two is a good one, especially if you have a friend wanting a wall rope so you can split the cost.

 Oscar Dodd 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Tricky one! By mountaineering I mean an activity where you're using a variety of techniques (short pitches, moving together etc) to make progress over ground that varies from scrambling to easy climbing. I'd use a very similar rope for alpine stuff and scrambling, but perhaps I'd want it dry treated if I was using it on a glacier. The only reason you might want a thinner rope for this is because it's lighter to carry, a thicker rope will do just as well.
Now back to the question in hand. If you sport climb on real rock and don't want separate ropes, just grab something a little longer - 50m is fine for most UK sport routes, 60m covers all but a few exceptions, I'd go for a 70-80m if you're planning a trip to Europe! But if I were you, I'd just grab a separate one for outdoor stuff, as you'll be wearing through it quite quickly if you use it indoors a few times a week. I'd still aim for something around 9.5mm, which is a good balance of being light and nice to use, but also quite durable. 

 SDM 07 Mar 2023
In reply to HeMa:

> After all, some gyms don't really pay any effort on looking at the ropelines when they set... so your rope is going to wear on the holds when you're lowered --> lot's of wear on it. In such cases the rope will wear out faster as a whole and choppin' the ends doesn't really help at all.

> Other gyms do take ropelines into account, so with good indoor belaying technique the ropes pretty much only touches the QDs --> not much wear on the rope. Then majority of the wear comes to the rope ends (knot plus the where the last QD is when you fall), thus having a tad longer rope and choppin' it a bit when the tails get nasty might give you more time/meters per sterling.

I can't say that I've ever climbed an indoor route where lowering off drags the rope across holds. I wound be having stern words with the staff if I did. 

I wouldn't be climbing anywhere where it was a common occurrence. 

4
In reply to PaulW:

> Agree with all the comments, just buy something cheap and cheerful. It won't last forever depending on how much use it gets and how many falls you take.

I think this Black Diamond Rope is cheap and cheerful.

https://www.ldmountaincentre.com/climbing-c4/equipment-c5/ropes-c81/black-d...

If I have measured it correctly, the diameter of my practice rope that I use for knots and clipping is 10mm. 

> I understand the idea of buying longer than you need and cutting ends off when those bits wear. You can extend the life of the rope that way. However the other side of that is that you have to spend a little more to buy the rope in the first place, you have to lug around more rope than you need every time and you have to uncoil the extra rope length every single route you climb. None of these things are in any way a big issue but over time this adds up to a lot of extra rope handling. For me at least it isn't worth it, I buy the rope length I need.

I know for a fact that White Spider's lead walls are 10m in height.

In reply to Jenny C:

> If you climb indoors a lot having a dedicated rope will save wear off your expensive outdoor rope. Absolutely you should have your own rope, it's normal to alternate who's you use between sessions.

> Personally I'd eco the comments above about going for durability over features, as it will get far heavier use than an outdoor rope. Having a bit of extra length so you can cut the end where it goes soft from repeatedly dogging up routes is also worthwhile.

This is said to very robust.

https://www.mammut.com/uk/en/outlet/products/2010-04320-1100/9-9-gym-workho...

What rope diameter do you recommend? My practice rope at home that I use for knots and clipping has a diameter of 10mm.

> 30m is ok for The Foundry, although personally I would go for 40. But do check as some walls do require longer ropes and insteep overhangs need more than just the vertical height x2.

I am London based but I did lead at The Foundry once.

> Rope bags are a worthwhile investment too. That's said, a 40m is an absolute pleasure to coil if you're used to using 80s.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

> Tricky one! By mountaineering I mean an activity where you're using a variety of techniques (short pitches, moving together etc) to make progress over ground that varies from scrambling to easy climbing. I'd use a very similar rope for alpine stuff and scrambling, but perhaps I'd want it dry treated if I was using it on a glacier. The only reason you might want a thinner rope for this is because it's lighter to carry, a thicker rope will do just as well.

Many years ago I wanted to climb the alpine north  faces including the Eigerwand and I was told the Cassin (TD) was the easiest, would you say it is mountaineering?

> Now back to the question in hand. If you sport climb on real rock and don't want separate ropes, just grab something a little longer - 50m is fine for most UK sport routes, 60m covers all but a few exceptions, I'd go for a 70-80m if you're planning a trip to Europe! But if I were you, I'd just grab a separate one for outdoor stuff, as you'll be wearing through it quite quickly if you use it indoors a few times a week. I'd still aim for something around 9.5mm, which is a good balance of being light and nice to use, but also quite durable. 

Maybe for sport climbing I can use my partners' rope until I am doing it more. What do you make if this Mammut 30m 9.5mm diameter rope?

https://www.mammut.com/uk/en/products/2010-04240-11218/9-5-crag-dry-rope?ad...

I emailed Mile End and try told me there lead walks don't go above 10m in height.

Sav

Post edited at 23:47
7
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

I have three belay devices: BD ATC, Petzl GriGri 2019 and DMM Pivot.

4
In reply to Oscar Dodd:

> Now back to the question in hand. If you sport climb on real rock and don't want separate ropes, just grab something a little longer - 50m is fine for most UK sport routes, 60m covers all but a few exceptions, I'd go for a 70-80m if you're planning a trip to Europe! But if I were you, I'd just grab a separate one for outdoor stuff, as you'll be wearing through it quite quickly if you use it indoors a few times a week. I'd still aim for something around 9.5mm, which is a good balance of being light and nice to use, but also quite durable. 

Correction: 

The email said the lead walls don't go above 15m height.

2
 Oscar Dodd 08 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Surely that's just a question of semantics now? Whether we call a route climbing or mountaineering doesn't change what the route is, and doesn't matter as there is often so much overlap  

That rope would do fine. I have the 60m version as my main sport rope and I like it. 30m is fine for most things in London as far as I know (defo at the Castle and Mile End!). To be honest, it doesn't really matter what rope you get as long as it's properly rated (ie has been tested by UIAA to make sure it's safe) and is long enough for what you want!

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

>  To be honest, it doesn't really matter what rope you get as long as it's properly rated (ie has been tested by UIAA to make sure it's safe) and is long enough for what you want!

^^This

 Don't over think it

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

> Surely that's just a question of semantics now? Whether we call a route climbing or mountaineering doesn't change what the route is, and doesn't matter as there is often so much overlap  

> That rope would do fine. I have the 60m version as my main sport rope and I like it. 30m is fine for most things in London as far as I know (defo at the Castle and Mile End!). To be honest, it doesn't really matter what rope you get as long as it's properly rated (ie has been tested by UIAA to make sure it's safe) and is long enough for what you want!

There are two new walls opening in London - Parthian Climbing London and Ballroom Climbing. For me: 9.5-9.7mm and 30m.

3
In reply to Oscar Dodd:

May I ask.

Are you sponsored by Mammut Swiss?

9
 tomhmoses 11 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

If you are happy with a thicker rope and are going to spend around £60 anyway, this is a pretty good deal for a 50m rope that I saw last week:

https://www.blacks.co.uk/15909763/edelweiss-powerlight-100-50m-15909763/?is...

But I'd agree, having a 30 for indoor climbing is much less faff than dealing with a longer rope if you don't need it.

I've not personally used Edelweiss ropes before, but know somebody who has enjoyed this rope:

https://rockrun.com/products/edelweiss-thruster-9-8mm-x-30m?variant=4229003...

I'll also leave this here:

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/mammut-zopa-97-single-rope/

Post edited at 21:08
In reply to tomhmoses:

> If you are happy with a thicker rope and are going to spend around £60 anyway, this is a pretty good deal for a 50m rope that I saw last week:https://www.blacks.co.uk/15909763/edelweiss-powerlight-100-50m-1590976...

> But I'd agree, having a 30 for indoor climbing is much less faff than dealing with a longer rope if you don't need it.

I agree, but what if I moved city, how tall are the lead walls in say Manchester area - Parthian Climbing? 

I am loving Sheffield at the moment.

> I've not personally used Edelweiss ropes before, but know somebody who has enjoyed this rope:https://rockrun.com/products/edelweiss-thruster-9-8mm-x-30m?variant=42...

There is certain EICA based climber who uses Edelweiss. 

Anything to do with Mr Road to Tokyo?

Post edited at 20:34
4
 riazanovskiy 25 Mar 2023

While it may be difficult to assume good faith of the OP at this point, I will add my 2 cents regardless.

I have just replaced my dead Beal Karma rope (which was £40 when I bought it) with a Mammut 9.9 Gym Workhorse Classic (£69), and I can say that the Beal one is better. While both ropes are good and perfectly fine for gym climbing, the Karma was so soft and stretchy that I literally did not notice some of the falls, and falls on the Mammut rope are noticeably harder. It feels like it is easier to hurt one's feet or ankles.

Personally, when my current rope wears out, I will probably opt for a Beal rope.

In reply to riazanovskiy:

> While it may be difficult to assume good faith of the OP at this point, I will add my 2 cents regardless.

Cosa stai dicendo esattamente?

> I have just replaced my dead Beal Karma rope (which was £40 when I bought it) with a Mammut 9.9 Gym Workhorse Classic (£69), and I can say that the Beal one is better. While both ropes are good and perfectly fine for gym climbing, the Karma was so soft and stretchy that I literally did not notice some of the falls, and falls on the Mammut rope are noticeably harder. It feels like it is easier to hurt one's feet or ankles.

https://www.blacks.co.uk/15902739/beal-karma-climbing-rope-40m-15902739/?is...

Arrampichi vicino alla Sheffield Arena?

> Personally, when my current rope wears out, I will probably opt for a Beal rope.

Beal è distribuito da Lyon Equipment.

Arrivederci

Post edited at 17:38
4
 JMAB 25 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

If you want one do it all single I've not regretted getting the cheapest 60m single I can find. Overkill at most walls but I climb at EICA so is needed there anyway. Use the same rope on long mountaineering routes in Scotland too.

So far mostly been beal karmas, can often find them with good discounts.

In reply to JMAB:

> If you want one do it all single I've not regretted getting the cheapest 60m single I can find. Overkill at most walls but I climb at EICA so is needed there anyway. Use the same rope on long mountaineering routes in Scotland too.

I have never been to EICA but I am keen to climb there - I have been to Kendal Wall a few times.

> So far mostly been beal karmas, can often find them with good discounts.

The previous poster seemed to like them - what about Petzl Volta?

 JMAB 25 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Never used that, but rope is rope. Unless you are looking for specific properties for a specific purpose, I don't see a good reason for not just getting the cheapest. Especially if for indoor.

 spenser 25 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Just get a rope appropriate for the purpose you are using it for at the moment. If you try to find a rope which will serve every single purpose you could need it will either be significantly more expensive, or you will have to make significant compromises in one or more areas. 

If you're regularly going to Awesome walls in Sheffield, climbing with people who don't have their own 60m rope and capable of doing stuff on the main overhang it's worth getting one, otherwise the length will likely be more of a hinderance than a help.

 kevin stephens 26 Mar 2023
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

I think AW Sheffield sell dedicated indoor wall ropes?

In reply to spenser:

> Just get a rope appropriate for the purpose you are using it for at the moment. If you try to find a rope which will serve every single purpose you could need it will either be significantly more expensive, or you will have to make significant compromises in one or more areas. 

I'm just indoors at the moment.

> If you're regularly going to Awesome walls in Sheffield, climbing with people who don't have their own 60m rope and capable of doing stuff on the main overhang it's worth getting one, otherwise the length will likely be more of a hinderance than a help.

I haven't been to AWCC Sheffield since I shadowed there - I have lead twice at The Foundry. 

In reply to kevin stephens:

> I think AW Sheffield sell dedicated indoor wall ropes?

I'll check next time I go there.


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